Knicks · Knicks interested in D. Rose....Again! (page 12)
Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced latelyand seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
That literally is not happening. Go look it up.
Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do this
martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do this
Rose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright young minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
The fuck are you talking about? Did you forget all of the teams Rose lead or when he was MVP of league? I get that Rose is not the player he once was but the bro definitely knows what it takes to win at a high level.
martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced latelyand seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
That literally is not happening. Go look it up.
Less than 15 mins last two games prior to this one, in which he made 17. Whenever he has struggled or made a mistake he has been taken out. But this is all moot.
Not you have another PG, veteran and coach’s favorite, who comes to play. I really hope Thibs shuts all of us up and keeps playing IQ consistent minutes, but track record says Thibs either starts Rose and gives the rest to Payton or viceversa. Quick will probably get Minutes as a shooter and after missing two 3s will be benched.
Prove me wrong, Thibs, but his track record says otherwise.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
But what if Rose is the backup PG next season and Quickley is the starting PG? Then all this anger towards FO or coach will be a waste of time. Need to see how coach managers IQ mins moving forward. IQ is bigger than the coach at this point. Which means if Rose takes mins from IQ, Thibs will be out the door. His not stupid. IQ is fine. Payton on the other hand is in danger of losing mins.
martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do this
I’m sure Thibs let it pretty clear that he decides who plays and how much, so this is a pretty simplistic look. For example, I don’t think FO is thrilled Knox and Frank are not getting any playing time, but Thibs is winning more than expected so they won’t mess that up yet.
Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced latelyand seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
That literally is not happening. Go look it up.
Less than 15 mins last two games prior to this one, in which he made 17. Whenever he has struggled or made a mistake he has been taken out. But this is all moot.
Not you have another PG, veteran and coach’s favorite, who comes to play. I really hope Thibs shuts all of us up and keeps playing IQ consistent minutes, but track record says Thibs either starts Rose and gives the rest to Payton or viceversa. Quick will probably get Minutes as a shooter and after missing two 3s will be benched.
Prove me wrong, Thibs, but his track record says otherwise.
So let me get this straight. 2 games ago when Elf was playing out of his mind and had 22 points in 35 minutes in a WIN no less, let me check my watch, 30 hours ago, and then this past game that finished 2 hours ago? Is that the trend or whatever you are complaining about IQ minutes being reduced?
Meanwhile IQ's 5 previous games to that: 30, 27, 24, 22, 24.
When Elf plays hard, he deserves minutes, especially if there is a chance to win and he is adding to it. When he doesn't, IQ is getting one the most minutes off the bench of a rookie.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
The fuck are you talking about? Did you forget all of the teams Rose lead or when he was MVP of league? I get that Rose is not the player he once was but the bro definitely knows what it takes to win at a high level.
You mean like Harden? Gawdy stats, not a team player.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
When he went to Mini he help then make the Playoffs for the first time in decades, carried the team when butler was hurt for a month.
Was a MVP in Thibs system and has always played solid all around game under thibs
His numbers are better than Payton and he was coming off the bench in Detroit playing 7 minutes less.
Everyone of our guards have been very inconsistent (which is why the team is so inconsistent) so having more to work with is always a good thing.
I promise you he's going to make you EAT YOUR WORDS just like RANDLE did.
This is not the ROSE that HATED PHIL JACKSON'S TRIANGLE
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright young minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
This move is definitely all Thibs. Whoever thinks this idea came from someone else is nuts. Thibs is winning so he is using his leverage.
StarksEwing1 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Exactly. The more draft picks you have the better chance you have to hit on a player. Plus rookie scale contracts is very important in a cap leaguejoec32033 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:TPercy wrote:Great!no not great. We are giving up draft picks. If The Knicks gave Detroit their second back they got fleecedJavascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1358475139076288513?s=21
Click here to view the TweetWow. Trade a young kid after one bad year for a 32 year old with history of knee problems. Plus we give up draft picks? First old school Knick move from Rose. It must be the water at the Garden.
I’d certainly wait for the deal to be finalized before criticizing Rose. Not a fan of “draft compensation” here.
Only thing I don’t like is the uncertainty it puts on IQs declining minutes. Could really use a SF.
True but any draft compensation is a waste for an aging back up. Totally agree about a SF. That was one of my points. Trading due to a log jam is fine. Smith was odd man out and did not have a good span here. But why trade him for yet another PG to keep the log jam going?
Exactly how many young players can one team have? You can not develop 15 young players. Not saying that this was the right trade, but 4 picks in 1 draft is a lot. If we're an older team, I would say keep them but we are so young already, I don't see the harm other than you could have possibly used the pick to trade for a better fitting vet later. Maybe.
Disagree. With the uncertainty of the draft, its always the more the better. After all it is a crap shoot. Would much rater have another chance at getting another IQ than adding an aged PG that we have already seen before.
Or we can trade the pick for someone I don't know useful. All the good vibes with this team for me are now gone. Watch, we will go into a tailspain once this washed up quitter gets here. When Barrett and IQ get their minutes cut for a player that doesn't earn it the bad feelings towards Thibs will start. Next thing you know they will ask out of NY. Same old BS with this team
knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
When he went to Mini he help then make the Playoffs for the first time in decades, carried the team when butler was hurt for a month.
Was a MVP in Thibs system and has always played solid all around game under thibs
His numbers are better than Payton and he was coming off the bench in Detroit playing 7 minutes less.
Everyone of our guards have been very inconsistent (which is why the team is so inconsistent) so having more to work with is always a good thing.
I promise you he's going to make you EAT YOUR WORDS just like RANDLE did.
This is not the ROSE that HATED PHIL JACKSON'S TRIANGLE
What is this "Like Randle did" stuff? Started the first positive thread about Randle this season. I never start threads.
Knicksfan wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright young minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
This move is definitely all Thibs. Whoever thinks this idea came from someone else is nuts. Thibs is winning so he is using his leverage.
Which is my point. Why bring in all this talent to let Thibs play GM again? It hasnt worked.
martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game.Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced latelyand seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
That literally is not happening. Go look it up.
Less than 15 mins last two games prior to this one, in which he made 17. Whenever he has struggled or made a mistake he has been taken out. But this is all moot.
Not you have another PG, veteran and coach’s favorite, who comes to play. I really hope Thibs shuts all of us up and keeps playing IQ consistent minutes, but track record says Thibs either starts Rose and gives the rest to Payton or viceversa. Quick will probably get Minutes as a shooter and after missing two 3s will be benched.
Prove me wrong, Thibs, but his track record says otherwise.
So let me get this straight. 2 games ago when Elf was playing out of his mind and had 22 points in 35 minutes in a WIN no less, let me check my watch, 30 hours ago, and then this past game that finished 2 hours ago? Is that the trend or whatever you are complaining about IQ minutes being reduced?
Meanwhile IQ's 5 previous games to that: 30, 27, 24, 22, 24.
When Elf plays hard, he deserves minutes, especially if there is a chance to win and he is adding to it. When he doesn't, IQ is getting one the most minutes off the bench of a rookie.
Dude, twist my words all you want. I stand by what I said: his minutes have been going down LATELY and remarking his previous totals highlights it even more. Yes, Payton can play well, still during all those games has had bad stretches where Quick not only could’ve played, but a change on pace was necessary.
Still, you avoid the real issue now: Rose IS a threat at Quickley’s minutes and if you think that if Payton and Rose play well they deserve to get playing time, you are just as shortsighted as Thibs. Yes, let’s win as much as we can, but if that will hurt the development on our young players then we are doing it wrong.
knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
When he went to Mini he help then make the Playoffs for the first time in decades, carried the team when butler was hurt for a month.
Was a MVP in Thibs system and has always played solid all around game under thibs
His numbers are better than Payton and he was coming off the bench in Detroit playing 7 minutes less.
Everyone of our guards have been very inconsistent (which is why the team is so inconsistent) so having more to work with is always a good thing.
I promise you he's going to make you EAT YOUR WORDS just like RANDLE did.
This is not the ROSE that HATED PHIL JACKSON'S TRIANGLE
Whatever. I'm not feeling Rose and you love him. My main point is that he doesn't really address this team's needs. We need three-point shooting? DRose is a slasher, who isn't really a good playmaker and who do any play defense. I've seen him here already. He played selfishly and didn't understand the nuances of running an offense outside of iso.
Knicksfan wrote:Still, you avoid the real issue now: Rose IS a threat at Quickley’s minutes and if you think that if Payton and Rose play well they deserve to get playing time, you are just as shortsighted as Thibs. Yes, let’s win as much as we can, but if that will hurt the development on our young players then we are doing it wrong.
I don't see it as a threat but more like healthy competition and a heavily experienced vet that knows how to do things but maybe can't at the level he once did and can impart that on IQ, both through competition and just showing up to work with him every day. Film. Off day work. Everything.
IQ is a learner, he goes and watches a vet like Kawhi work out before a game. I'd guess the calculation is that he will do the same with Rose. Rivers doesn't cut it. And obviously Payton didn't either.
In the big picture, even if IQ's minutes are cut by a couple (and we don't know that for sure), the value of his time next to a high level vet is invaluable and that's the argument and reasoning Thibs and FO settled on.
The minutes distribution is just a distraction and maybe one minus of it all.
There is a solid misunderstanding or bias that has been at play when Thibs showed up:
- He only plays vets
- He won't give young guys minutes
- He will only have an 8 man rotation
- His coaching style is long forgotten and he hasn't kept up with the modern game
FO has already picked Thibs coaching staff or helped fill it out. They gave him a young team. There were ZERO players over 30 at the season's start.
Thibs has broken most of the preconceptions most have had about him. He has not really brought in all his vets. Knicks brought in Taj when it was obvious they needed a 3rd string C and he has not at all taken minutes away from Robinson and really was already here last year and there was a good chance he would re-sign. The Knicks SUCK ASS on offense and they are bringing in someone to help in that area.
BigDaddyG wrote:Exactlyknicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:Do you guys actually think this conversation when down or there was more to it?Thibs: Get me Rose man.
Front Office: OK, but does that mean our star rookie will get less minutes?
Thibs: Maybe....?
FO: OK, let's do thisRose will have played for 3 teams with Thibs. Not like he's bringing a winning attitude, or winning tradition with him. Just lots of injuries, time off, and stat padding.
All the bright youmg minds brought into the FO, and this is the best trade idea they could come up with?? This move has been recycled a few times, to say the least.
When he went to Mini he help then make the Playoffs for the first time in decades, carried the team when butler was hurt for a month.
Was a MVP in Thibs system and has always played solid all around game under thibs
His numbers are better than Payton and he was coming off the bench in Detroit playing 7 minutes less.
Everyone of our guards have been very inconsistent (which is why the team is so inconsistent) so having more to work with is always a good thing.
I promise you he's going to make you EAT YOUR WORDS just like RANDLE did.
This is not the ROSE that HATED PHIL JACKSON'S TRIANGLE
Whatever. I'm not feeling Rose and you love him. My main point is that he doesn't really address this team's needs. We need three-point shooting? DRose is a slasher, who isn't really a good playmaker and who do any play defense. I've seen him here already. He played selfishly and didn't understand the nuances of running an offense outside of iso.
On a funny note Frank survives again?