wargames wrote:I think Rose will be the equivalent of Jared Jeffries after he came back the second time. An appreciate member of the team who does more than we expected
Does that mean I'll never stop hating Derrick Rose the moment he steps on the court.
martin wrote:
they have established an identity and are playing really well. Several guys have really been coached up and the rotation is ripe with youth. I am not one to nitpick when the direction is good. Coaching and development staff have been great early moves for this FO. I wonder if its about pumping youthful assets for big trades (Devin Booker we see you) or its really about building a core up, or whichever comes first. Time will tell.
This trade deadline could be wild. With no fans in the seats I would think our ability to absorb $15mm would really be worth something
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:IMO We have to make the Playoffs, Once we do that I feel the missing pieces will come.Not surprised by the decent start, I felt the coaching staff and FO were all on the same page so i knew we would get the draft right, I knew thibs would have these dudes defending and hustling and playing scrappy.
The biggest surprise for me was not being able to land at least one significant piece in FA, either CP, FVV, Haywood, Woods
Shouldn't have come as a surprise. CP, Wood and FVV either went to or stayed at situations that looked far better at the time. Hayward got the surprise bag, but the Knicks were still fighting till the end. I'm sure free agents will look at the team more favorably now. But any meaningful moves will probably have to come through trade, because this free agency class is looking suspect.
Its terrible. Look at the players available and who do you want to throw money at?https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3040...
If we are not sorted at PG next year offering Conley/Lowry 2 years $50mm is the only thing that makes sense and if someone emerges we can always trade one of those guys as they would have good value. There isnt a single guy there I would throw a 4 year deal at
Holiday and Leonard. Ibaka for MLE.
EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:IMO We have to make the Playoffs, Once we do that I feel the missing pieces will come.Not surprised by the decent start, I felt the coaching staff and FO were all on the same page so i knew we would get the draft right, I knew thibs would have these dudes defending and hustling and playing scrappy.
The biggest surprise for me was not being able to land at least one significant piece in FA, either CP, FVV, Haywood, Woods
Shouldn't have come as a surprise. CP, Wood and FVV either went to or stayed at situations that looked far better at the time. Hayward got the surprise bag, but the Knicks were still fighting till the end. I'm sure free agents will look at the team more favorably now. But any meaningful moves will probably have to come through trade, because this free agency class is looking suspect.
Its terrible. Look at the players available and who do you want to throw money at?https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3040...
If we are not sorted at PG next year offering Conley/Lowry 2 years $50mm is the only thing that makes sense and if someone emerges we can always trade one of those guys as they would have good value. There isnt a single guy there I would throw a 4 year deal at
Holiday and Leonard. Ibaka for MLE.
then we trade KK and Austin Rivers for Giannis
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Hollinger and Nate Duncan just did a "Futures" podcast and ranked the Knicks in the bottom 6. Even still, they acknowledged the Knicks had a reasonable argument for being in the next tier up. They just couldn't let go off the lol Knicks rep developed from the past two decades.
It's cool, Knicks currently rank them in the bottom 2 of being able to assess teams
Good comeback. And there's some truth in your response. Who actually gives them this top ranking for assessing teams. Great point.
It's also fare that people assessing the team is holding onto the 20plus years of bad management, I understand that. Showing consistent progress is the only way to change these assessments.
We are definitely heading in the right direction. And Obi was the obvious pick, based on pre draft ranking and potential. Now it looks like Obi wasn't the best pick, just like IQ doesn't look like a reach everybody said he was. In 2 yrs, all of this will be ironed out. I still believe in Obi and this FO. Whether we keep Obi or trade him, I believe this FO will make the best decision for the team. I did not have any faith in the previous FO. So I'm happy with the direction so far.
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Hollinger and Nate Duncan just did a "Futures" podcast and ranked the Knicks in the bottom 6. Even still, they acknowledged the Knicks had a reasonable argument for being in the next tier up. They just couldn't let go off the lol Knicks rep developed from the past two decades.
It's cool, Knicks currently rank them in the bottom 2 of being able to assess teams
Good comeback. And there's some truth in your response. Who actually gives them this top ranking for assessing teams. Great point.
It's also fare that people assessing the team is holding onto the 20plus years of bad management, I understand that. Showing consistent progress is the only way to change these assessments.
We are definitely heading in the right direction. And Obi was the obvious pick, based on pre draft ranking and potential. Now it looks like Obi wasn't the best pick, just like IQ doesn't look like a reach everybody said he was. In 2 yrs, all of this will be ironed out. I still believe in Obi and this FO. Whether we keep Obi or trade him, I believe this FO will make the best decision for the team. I did not have any faith in the previous FO. So I'm happy with the direction so far.
Feel like when you get an entirely new Front Office who hires an entirely new Coaching staff and then takes a bottom 6 ranked team in terms of talent before the season and that team ends up towards the end of the playoff qualifying team list a quarter of the games into the season with one of the tougher schedules...... and then you just look at your notes on the team from a previous year and report THAT without, you know, watching their games or at least peak in on the team... that type of assessment deserves every bit of the flame-throwing for 2 [obviously knicklehead (I learned that from Brocker)] guys who are getting paid to have a [bad] opinion?
Jesus I need more coffee 
martin wrote:blkexec wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Hollinger and Nate Duncan just did a "Futures" podcast and ranked the Knicks in the bottom 6. Even still, they acknowledged the Knicks had a reasonable argument for being in the next tier up. They just couldn't let go off the lol Knicks rep developed from the past two decades.
It's cool, Knicks currently rank them in the bottom 2 of being able to assess teams
Good comeback. And there's some truth in your response. Who actually gives them this top ranking for assessing teams. Great point.
It's also fare that people assessing the team is holding onto the 20plus years of bad management, I understand that. Showing consistent progress is the only way to change these assessments.
We are definitely heading in the right direction. And Obi was the obvious pick, based on pre draft ranking and potential. Now it looks like Obi wasn't the best pick, just like IQ doesn't look like a reach everybody said he was. In 2 yrs, all of this will be ironed out. I still believe in Obi and this FO. Whether we keep Obi or trade him, I believe this FO will make the best decision for the team. I did not have any faith in the previous FO. So I'm happy with the direction so far.
Feel like when you get an entirely new Front Office who hires an entirely new Coaching staff and then takes a bottom 6 ranked team in terms of talent before the season and that team ends up towards the end of the playoff qualifying team list a quarter of the games into the season with one of the tougher schedules...... and then you just look at your notes on the team from a previous year and report THAT without, you know, watching their games or at least peak in on the team... that type of assessment deserves every bit of the flame-throwing for 2 [obviously knicklehead (I learned that from Brocker)] guys who are getting paid to have a [bad] opinion?
Jesus I need more coffee
Yeah, I'm not as big on the Lock'd On sports network as whole. The Knicks one is Ok, but isn't one I actively download. I feel feel the same way about Hollinger's cast too. He's got interesting takes from an analytics and team executive standpoint, but I get the feeling that he doesn't watch every team as closely as he did in the beginning. Chad Ford's draft podcast is OK. I don't care much for his scouting takes, but he's still got connections to NBA scouts.
I wish he were around (Leon Rose) when they made the Porzingis trade. Would have gotten some better assets.
Thus far, and it is still early, seems solid. The move to hire Thibs is solid. Knicks have improved on defense, and been competitive.
Trading useless player in Smith for D Rose, who may not be valuable to many, but under Thibs is a player that has value, that was a solid move.
Drafts are always toss ups. For some reason, despite sucking so many years, Knicks never seem to be in position to draft a franchise talent at 1-2-3. So I do not stress about the Topin pick, as it is not like there was a much more deserving obvious elite draft pick (that will show to be franchise player) ahead of him.
So far, so good with Leon. Definitely an upgrade over Mills.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:
they have established an identity and are playing really well. Several guys have really been coached up and the rotation is ripe with youth. I am not one to nitpick when the direction is good. Coaching and development staff have been great early moves for this FO. I wonder if its about pumping youthful assets for big trades (Devin Booker we see you) or its really about building a core up, or whichever comes first. Time will tell. This trade deadline could be wild. With no fans in the seats I would think our ability to absorb $15mm would really be worth something
The scary thing is Knox, Frank, and so far Toppin have provided nothing. While I like that were winning these guys not even being useful role players yet hurts our chances of being a legit contender. Knox and Frank don't even have trade value. I worry about us trying to get Beal. Look what the Lakers traded to get Anthony Davis. They gave up a max player in Ingram, our best player Randle, Lonzo Ball, and 4 first round picks. I hope we don't do the Melo trade part 2.
Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:
they have established an identity and are playing really well. Several guys have really been coached up and the rotation is ripe with youth. I am not one to nitpick when the direction is good. Coaching and development staff have been great early moves for this FO. I wonder if its about pumping youthful assets for big trades (Devin Booker we see you) or its really about building a core up, or whichever comes first. Time will tell. This trade deadline could be wild. With no fans in the seats I would think our ability to absorb $15mm would really be worth something
The scary thing is Knox, Frank, and so far Toppin have provided nothing. While I like that were winning these guys not even being useful role players yet hurts our chances of being a legit contender. Knox and Frank don't even have trade value. I worry about us trying to get Beal. Look what the Lakers traded to get Anthony Davis. They gave up a max player in Ingram, our best player Randle, Lonzo Ball, and 4 first round picks. I hope we don't do the Melo trade part 2.
you forgot to add "LA WON A CHAMPIONSHIP THE NEXT SEASON"
You can bet your last $$ that the knicks will pounce on the next available star player Via trade.
Banking On FA has been a let down for the last 3 off seasons, You want to go for 4 ?
Every draft that suppose to be deep, turns shallow by the time june comes.
Are we going to draft 2 more 1st round picks (our own and dallas) and plant them on the bench.
Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:
they have established an identity and are playing really well. Several guys have really been coached up and the rotation is ripe with youth. I am not one to nitpick when the direction is good. Coaching and development staff have been great early moves for this FO. I wonder if its about pumping youthful assets for big trades (Devin Booker we see you) or its really about building a core up, or whichever comes first. Time will tell. This trade deadline could be wild. With no fans in the seats I would think our ability to absorb $15mm would really be worth something
The scary thing is Knox, Frank, and so far Toppin have provided nothing. While I like that were winning these guys not even being useful role players yet hurts our chances of being a legit contender. Knox and Frank don't even have trade value. I worry about us trying to get Beal. Look what the Lakers traded to get Anthony Davis. They gave up a max player in Ingram, our best player Randle, Lonzo Ball, and 4 first round picks. I hope we don't do the Melo trade part 2.
stop worrying and tell me what you see. Everything from playing draft position trading games and building out the coaching staff to the FAs he signed as been about value. Frank got minutes, had a good outing and immediately broke. Kid plays good D, hits 4 3's and the next day in practice sprains his knee and is out for a month. I really want to see Frank succeed but his body has failed him. We will see what his fate is. Leon knows his value I will say that much. Knox has had a lot of chances and has had moments but overall has not been very good.
Thibs rides RJ/Mitch. IQ is literally his favorite player and got his other favorite player so they they can have a bromance 3some. Obi has been a steady and is getting coached up. Seeing him with Rose kinda changes things a bit.
The real question is what do the coaching staff know that we dont? They knew about IQ because he earned it in practice. Is there someone we dont expect waiting in the wings?
Either way the core is young and the old guy is Randle at 26. Rose is fine and I hope we spend to get Lowry or Conley. Just draft the 3 BPAs or whoever your guys were (Maxsy or IQ last draft). Want to grow them fast? Play them with a good floor general.
Posted by someone on Reddit. It checks out. I went to look up the original tweet and it's gone. I liked Fizdale, but the dude wasn't a good coach.
Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach material
Mills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
Your lack of Noah is disturbing.
knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
I would say making him his enemy publicly so his moves seemed bias. If we didn’t know how much he hated KP he might have able to trade him and not get fired.
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
Phil's mistake was not owning the team so he could be a piss-ant Prez with no exec experience and act like a egotisic old jackass to the only star players on the team who wouldn't kiss his rings. Not that Melo and KP weren't assholes as well (be still, NALOD), but management is supposed to be bigger than that.
Or maybe it was just he didn't stay woke. Literally.
jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
Phil's mistake was not owning the team so he could be a piss-ant Prez with no exec experience and act like a egotisic old jackass to the only star players on the team who wouldn't kiss his rings. Not that Melo and KP weren't assholes as well (be still, NALOD), but management is supposed to be bigger than that.
Or maybe it was just he didn't stay woke. Literally.
If hindsight told us anything it was Phil was more “Woke” then he realized when he wanted to trade KP Before he got hurt. Granted Phil had flaws as an exec, but he was thinking like a coach when he wanted to trade him. You forget Phils history of understanding players was his STRENGTH. You forget he coached 11 chips. Discount that to prove a point is ignorant. He saw a petulant malcontent in KP and wanted him gone. He saw an anemic weak lower core kid with crazy talent but from the moment he drafted him telegraphed he faced an uphill battle to unicorn status. He was arrogant and should have kept his mouth closed but its not anything other teams could not figure themselves. But teams wanted him and lets just say in hindsight we would have done better if PHil traded him.
Defending Phil? I’m putting things in perspective. Trying to install a Triangle culture Without Tex Winter or someone up it to a modern pace was his fatal flaw. He saw the potential in Frank. That franks body has not matured to handle the rigors of the NBA might be biological as he is still young. Time will tell.
Knicks are not the first team to draft a young player and not have him materialize.
He saw that Derrick Rose could return if healthy. Timeline was not in synch but eventually it worked itself thru. Noah was a miscalculation for sure. No shyt. Fish was a good idea but he really was not ready as a person. The Phil experiment was a good idea but badly executed.
Let’s not forget Dolan was desperate then, Irving Azoff a big name in music brokered the seduction. Phil had to bet talked into it. He as slated to run Steve Balmers purchase of a team rumored to be SAC and put it in Seattle. He left Jeannie. He was given 12 mil for 5 years. He relented. He should have done better. He didn’t. Cruel as it was, Balmer gets Clippers and he could have stayed in LA.
