jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
Phil's mistake was not owning the team so he could be a piss-ant Prez with no exec experience and act like a egotisic old jackass to the only star players on the team who wouldn't kiss his rings. Not that Melo and KP weren't assholes as well (be still, NALOD), but management is supposed to be bigger than that.
Or maybe it was just he didn't stay woke. Literally.
If hindsight told us anything it was Phil was more “Woke” then he realized when he wanted to trade KP Before he got hurt. Granted Phil had flaws as an exec, but he was thinking like a coach when he wanted to trade him. You forget Phils history of understanding players was his STRENGTH. You forget he coached 11 chips. Discount that to prove a point is ignorant. He saw a petulant malcontent in KP and wanted him gone. He saw an anemic weak lower core kid with crazy talent but from the moment he drafted him telegraphed he faced an uphill battle to unicorn status. He was arrogant and should have kept his mouth closed but its not anything other teams could not figure themselves. But teams wanted him and lets just say in hindsight we would have done better if PHil traded him.
Defending Phil? I’m putting things in perspective. Trying to install a Triangle culture Without Tex Winter or someone up it to a modern pace was his fatal flaw. He saw the potential in Frank. That franks body has not matured to handle the rigors of the NBA might be biological as he is still young. Time will tell.
Knicks are not the first team to draft a young player and not have him materialize.
He saw that Derrick Rose could return if healthy. Timeline was not in synch but eventually it worked itself thru. Noah was a miscalculation for sure. No shyt. Fish was a good idea but he really was not ready as a person. The Phil experiment was a good idea but badly executed.
Let’s not forget Dolan was desperate then, Irving Azoff a big name in music brokered the seduction. Phil had to bet talked into it. He as slated to run Steve Balmers purchase of a team rumored to be SAC and put it in Seattle. He left Jeannie. He was given 12 mil for 5 years. He relented. He should have done better. He didn’t. Cruel as it was, Balmer gets Clippers and he could have stayed in LA.
Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
Phil's mistake was not owning the team so he could be a piss-ant Prez with no exec experience and act like a egotisic old jackass to the only star players on the team who wouldn't kiss his rings. Not that Melo and KP weren't assholes as well (be still, NALOD), but management is supposed to be bigger than that.
Or maybe it was just he didn't stay woke. Literally.
If hindsight told us anything it was Phil was more “Woke” then he realized when he wanted to trade KP Before he got hurt. Granted Phil had flaws as an exec, but he was thinking like a coach when he wanted to trade him. You forget Phils history of understanding players was his STRENGTH. You forget he coached 11 chips. Discount that to prove a point is ignorant. He saw a petulant malcontent in KP and wanted him gone. He saw an anemic weak lower core kid with crazy talent but from the moment he drafted him telegraphed he faced an uphill battle to unicorn status. He was arrogant and should have kept his mouth closed but its not anything other teams could not figure themselves. But teams wanted him and lets just say in hindsight we would have done better if PHil traded him.
Defending Phil? I’m putting things in perspective. Trying to install a Triangle culture Without Tex Winter or someone up it to a modern pace was his fatal flaw. He saw the potential in Frank. That franks body has not matured to handle the rigors of the NBA might be biological as he is still young. Time will tell.
Knicks are not the first team to draft a young player and not have him materialize.
He saw that Derrick Rose could return if healthy. Timeline was not in synch but eventually it worked itself thru. Noah was a miscalculation for sure. No shyt. Fish was a good idea but he really was not ready as a person. The Phil experiment was a good idea but badly executed.
Let’s not forget Dolan was desperate then, Irving Azoff a big name in music brokered the seduction. Phil had to bet talked into it. He as slated to run Steve Balmers purchase of a team rumored to be SAC and put it in Seattle. He left Jeannie. He was given 12 mil for 5 years. He relented. He should have done better. He didn’t. Cruel as it was, Balmer gets Clippers and he could have stayed in LA.
phil was brought in to add stability and a championship pedigree, yet he only added to the circus. He was a disaster who stole money....
Uptown wrote:Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Actually all of our Past coaches were good guys who can be added to a coaching staff, (except rambis) They just were not Head coach materialMills 2 biggest blunders was KP and Fizdale
Phils biggest Blunder was the Triangle, Frank and KP.
Hope fully Leon doesn't have the one blunder that does him in
What was Phils mistake with KP? Drafting him? Or not trading him?
Phil's mistake was not owning the team so he could be a piss-ant Prez with no exec experience and act like a egotisic old jackass to the only star players on the team who wouldn't kiss his rings. Not that Melo and KP weren't assholes as well (be still, NALOD), but management is supposed to be bigger than that.
Or maybe it was just he didn't stay woke. Literally.
If hindsight told us anything it was Phil was more “Woke” then he realized when he wanted to trade KP Before he got hurt. Granted Phil had flaws as an exec, but he was thinking like a coach when he wanted to trade him. You forget Phils history of understanding players was his STRENGTH. You forget he coached 11 chips. Discount that to prove a point is ignorant. He saw a petulant malcontent in KP and wanted him gone. He saw an anemic weak lower core kid with crazy talent but from the moment he drafted him telegraphed he faced an uphill battle to unicorn status. He was arrogant and should have kept his mouth closed but its not anything other teams could not figure themselves. But teams wanted him and lets just say in hindsight we would have done better if PHil traded him.
Defending Phil? I’m putting things in perspective. Trying to install a Triangle culture Without Tex Winter or someone up it to a modern pace was his fatal flaw. He saw the potential in Frank. That franks body has not matured to handle the rigors of the NBA might be biological as he is still young. Time will tell.
Knicks are not the first team to draft a young player and not have him materialize.
He saw that Derrick Rose could return if healthy. Timeline was not in synch but eventually it worked itself thru. Noah was a miscalculation for sure. No shyt. Fish was a good idea but he really was not ready as a person. The Phil experiment was a good idea but badly executed.
Let’s not forget Dolan was desperate then, Irving Azoff a big name in music brokered the seduction. Phil had to bet talked into it. He as slated to run Steve Balmers purchase of a team rumored to be SAC and put it in Seattle. He left Jeannie. He was given 12 mil for 5 years. He relented. He should have done better. He didn’t. Cruel as it was, Balmer gets Clippers and he could have stayed in LA.
phil was brought in to add stability and a championship pedigree, yet he only added to the circus. He was a disaster who stole money....
https://blacksportsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/phil-jackson-.jpg
Some forgot coaching is not Presidenting. Counting it as executive experience is a pure non-starter as a premise. Akin to being a GOAT player gives you immediate credence as a coach. He wasn't being paid to understand players, historical or otherwise. If he knew all that so well, why give Melo a NTC? Why draft the unicorn to begin with? Why draft a soft euro French kid who wasn't built to sustain an NBA triangle immediately after he drafted the brittle petulant Latvian kid? IF HE UNDERSTOOD ALL THIS SO WELL, WHY THE FUHUCQUE WERE WE SO HISTORICALLY DAMNED BAD FOR 3 YEARS?
The bold above is all one needs to know. The rest is ancient history that has no relation to the dysfunction he brought. Anything else is just defending an old coach who proved to be disgustingly overpaid, woefully under-qualified, and completely in over his head. He effed over Melo who showed he still had gas in the tank.
He said playoffs, then tanked, then rebuilt with old shit and then ripped it all apart while pissing on people's heads because his ego and his rings allowed him to.
Anyone else pulls the shit Phil did and we'd all be trying to figure out if they were actually worse than IT as an executive.
This is another a macro defense of PHil I’m talking about. We talking about the narrow issue of KP and at the moment he was FIRED. The dumpster was already on fire. I never said he should not have been relieved of his job.
This is about the very moment of timing. Phil wanted to trade KP. He is not know he was going to blow out his ACL or have a sex related complaint. This was about he looking at it from a coaching prism and wanting him gone.
The Irony of that moment is astonishing. HE gets fired for anticipating.
Nalod wrote:This is another a macro defense of PHil I’m talking about. We talking about the narrow issue of KP and at the moment he was FIRED. The dumpster was already on fire. I never said he should not have been relieved of his job.
This is about the very moment of timing. Phil wanted to trade KP. He is not know he was going to blow out his ACL or have a sex related complaint. This was about he looking at it from a coaching prism and wanting him gone.
The Irony of that moment is astonishing. HE gets fired for anticipating.
All true. But the reason he wanted to trade him is he didn't think he would ever stay healthy. While most of the narrative is deservedly negative, Phil had this one pegged with how it has played out so far.
joec32033 wrote:Nalod wrote:This is another a macro defense of PHil I’m talking about. We talking about the narrow issue of KP and at the moment he was FIRED. The dumpster was already on fire. I never said he should not have been relieved of his job.
This is about the very moment of timing. Phil wanted to trade KP. He is not know he was going to blow out his ACL or have a sex related complaint. This was about he looking at it from a coaching prism and wanting him gone.
The Irony of that moment is astonishing. HE gets fired for anticipating.
All true. But the reason he wanted to trade him is he didn't think he would ever stay healthy. While most of the narrative is deservedly negative, Phil had this one pegged with how it has played out so far.
Thats all I’m trying to say and the hindsight irony that was seemingly the final straw was an act that would have been brilliant! He lost the benefit of doubt by then. I get that.
Phil made his bed and crapped it, but one thing he did not do was mortgage the future. Trading first rounders for pipe dreams stopped there and we are starting to reap the benefits of that philosophy. (Haters -- I am not ignoring his mistakes.) Anyway back to the Rose regime -- there is a lot of scuttlebutt of trading young players and multiple firsts for Beal. Please God no.
It feels like we are at the crossroads of decision. Milk the relative early success of this season and try to stack the deck for a playoff run under Thibs. IMO we will get what we always got.
Leon Rose just needs to stay the course. Guys like Beal and LaVine are going cost too much in players and draft capital. We need to get a better idea of whether Quickley can competently take over the starting pg spot next year. We need to see where we land in the draft and how far this team can go in the playoffs. If a great opportunity opens up then fine, but I know Washington is not going to trade Beal cheap and I don’t think Chicago is going to trade LaVine cheap either. I think our team is stacked with talent. I did not like Obi when we drafted him, but I will say his defense is at least not terrible and his offensive potential is high once he adds more bulk to his frame. I would like to see the Knicks focus on trying to get back some value for Knox and Frank and just stay the course and focus on the upcoming draft in which we once again have three picks.
Outlook: positive
martin wrote:Outlook: positive
they have done a great job from top to bottom man... its pretty wild. Even the G league team has a plan
They did an amazing job building out a coaching staff and FO that has so far executed both in FA and in the draft and trades. The dead line will be really interesting.
I just love how they have coached up ALL these guys. From Randle's first AS game to the two rookies to RJ/Mitch being good starters... all of it
The win-now coach wont stop talking about IQ and Obi and last night pulls out Frank!
I'll tell you guys what I really like about the state of our Knicks, I like it when after losing to us a coach gets fired, then I also like it when Luke Walton slams his notepad against the hardwood out of frustration, then the next game Pacers coach gets a tech after a crucial defensive play. That's what I have personally longed for ever since the Van Gundy years. I want teams to not really look forward to playing us.
Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
KnickDanger wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
Yeah that was the weirdest free agent signing ever.
ramtour420 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
Yeah that was the weirdest free agent signing ever.
Thank you Phil. An enduring legacy that just keeps on giving. Probably a clause in there that says he gets paid whether he plays or not. Or maybe even a bonus for early retirement, with free airfare to share a bong in Montana. 
jrodmc wrote:ramtour420 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
Yeah that was the weirdest free agent signing ever.
Thank you Phil. An enduring legacy that just keeps on giving. Probably a clause in there that says he gets paid whether he plays or not. Or maybe even a bonus for early retirement, with free airfare to share a bong in Montana.
smokin on that peyote....
jrodmc wrote:ramtour420 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
Yeah that was the weirdest free agent signing ever.
Thank you Phil. An enduring legacy that just keeps on giving. Probably a clause in there that says he gets paid whether he plays or not. Or maybe even a bonus for early retirement, with free airfare to share a bong in Montana.
Phil of course owns the responsibility for the Noah contract, but I blame only the player for the utter failure and disgrace of that signing. I was happy at the time, seeing Noah (as Phil did I assume) as a veteran, tough defensive minded leader who would bring decent skills and excellent leadership. Instead we got a lazy party boy rolling out of bed only to get high and cash his checks. I will give him a tiny bit of credit for admitting the obvious.
As I have posted many times I have zero love for Putzingis, but his basketball demise is about betrayal of his physical skills. Noah simply stole money and betrayed the Knicks and the fans.
KnickDanger wrote:jrodmc wrote:ramtour420 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
Yeah that was the weirdest free agent signing ever.
Thank you Phil. An enduring legacy that just keeps on giving. Probably a clause in there that says he gets paid whether he plays or not. Or maybe even a bonus for early retirement, with free airfare to share a bong in Montana.
Phil of course owns the responsibility for the Noah contract, but I blame only the player for the utter failure and disgrace of that signing. I was happy at the time, seeing Noah (as Phil did I assume) as a veteran, tough defensive minded leader who would bring decent skills and excellent leadership. Instead we got a lazy party boy rolling out of bed only to get high and cash his checks. I will give him a tiny bit of credit for admitting the obvious.As I have posted many times I have zero love for Putzingis, but his basketball demise is about betrayal of his physical skills. Noah simply stole money and betrayed the Knicks and the fans.
Novelty idea to actually blame the player than the guy who hired him. Refreshing really.
We seem to always bame the coach or the GM/President. Why? In Noah’s case he was a bit injury prone so we “all knew it”. Naturally since we knew better Phil was an idiot. He was, but Noah robbed Knicks. Often player at least gives it his best effort to stay healthy.
Blame is over rated. Good take!
KnickDanger wrote:jrodmc wrote:ramtour420 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:Jaokim Noah just announced his retirement. How does this affect the contract he signed with the knicks that was stretched? Can the FO now apply for it to be taken out of the salary cap?
Scumbag retired when he signed a Knick contract.
Yeah that was the weirdest free agent signing ever.
Thank you Phil. An enduring legacy that just keeps on giving. Probably a clause in there that says he gets paid whether he plays or not. Or maybe even a bonus for early retirement, with free airfare to share a bong in Montana.
Phil of course owns the responsibility for the Noah contract, but I blame only the player for the utter failure and disgrace of that signing. I was happy at the time, seeing Noah (as Phil did I assume) as a veteran, tough defensive minded leader who would bring decent skills and excellent leadership. Instead we got a lazy party boy rolling out of bed only to get high and cash his checks. I will give him a tiny bit of credit for admitting the obvious.As I have posted many times I have zero love for Putzingis, but his basketball demise is about betrayal of his physical skills. Noah simply stole money and betrayed the Knicks and the fans.
Phil owns the contract, but Noah owns the fact that he had just spent two seasons in Chicago at the very end of the line. Decent skills? He managed about a full season in two years, his numbers were down dramatically, and he was inactive for the majority of the season Phil signed him off of.
Who owns the utter failure for offering an end of the line, non-starting player $72 million? No matter how he performed, what was the thought process behind that? 72 million and 4 years. Let that sink in once again.
KP was a supreme douche with a rhoid brother in tow, no debate, but at least he performed when able.
Phil stole money and gave it away pointlessly beyond anything any player was ever going to live down to.
But hey, we still got our draft picks.
