Please no same ol same ol.
Think so far, this has been a good year to teach us all a valuable lesson. That if we have draft assets and some cap flexibility good things will happen. They may not be at warp speed how most fans want but at a speed that keeps us moving in the right direction. With so many Starphucks out there, ones mentioned above included, I think its a good time for the FO to batten down the hatches and start focusing on evaluating the talent available in next years draft. That and keep the phones on for desperate teams looking to make desperate offers to help them win this year.
I really do hope that the goal for the FO this year was to:
1. Keep cap space open for a true difference maker. Did not happen.
2. Accumulate assets. Think they have by picking up vets on short deal that can translate into more drat picks at the deadline.
3. To evaluate our so called young core that has been here for over 2 years. Think they did with MR, Knox, Frank and Dennis and will probably look to move on from most.
4. To develop their new young pieces in IQ and Tops. Think they have.
5. To make the playoffs. Which I am hoping they do.
Think we can add couple more promising picks in next years draft. Attract, have the trade pieces and the cap space for a top level player in the next two years. Have the ability to resign many of the fillers doing well thus far at relatively low cost once again. (Burks.Rose,Payton,Bullock etc) All things that can only make us better.
they are both very interesting for different reasons but in either case we would need to be very disciplined in the offer, e.g., the packages above are
way over the top in my mind. I wouldn't offer anythng close to the packages you're suggesting
Beal is playing beautifully and his ability to stretch the floor could really make the game easier for a bunch of others. washington is going no place and that's a big contract. we have to look at their problems, not our desires, when making an offer.
Lavine is a bit of a wild card. He seems to be a bit more serious about his game now, but IMO still too undisciplined. if Thibs thought he could get him to use his athleticism an coordination consistently to play winning basketball it could be a good get, and a possible value pick. The current version of Lavine I would pass on - at any price. We'd have to be convinced we could get him to grow in the right way.
If we could really land Lavine without giving up Randle, RJ or Mitch then I'd say we should pull the trigger. Knox has been deadweight so far. While we don't know what we have in Toppin - he's a bench player on this team as long as Randle and Mitch are starters. The Dallas 1st's could be valuable or mid-tier picks. The 2nd Dallas 1st could also convert to a 2nd round pick after due to protection. Lavine may not even be the answer but if you acquire better talent it does give you more options in future deals. If Toppin turns out to be a stud and plays defense - we may regret that... that said we won't see this on the Knicks anyway if Randle is the starter so his value for this team is actually less than what it could be on another team. No to the Beal deal though - he's older, on minutes restriction and 3 1st rounders would deplete the cupboard.
I would jump on both those trades. Realistically, both are probably going to cost more. Knox's value is low and Obi doesn't get enough time to showcase his skills. I think you need to add a fourth pick to the Beal package and maybe four picks for Lavine. I mean, Jrue Holiday cost three first-rounders and two swaps.
Neither one of these guys are available.
The knicks have clearly indicating they are in play for any star that becomes available if it make sense.
I also think adding more rookie talent to a roster ready to take the next step is not good.
Like if we traded the RJ pick(last yr) for lavine we would have been good with lavine and randle, but now we have to wait another 2 yrs for RJ to reach lavines level, mean while Randle is left to carry us most nights.
In other words, I would include RJ in any trade for beal or lavine
Listening to the NY media the last few days just infuriates me when it comes to a topic like this. I've listened to Mike Kay and his show and Dimitri and those guys wine and complain about the Knicks having to trade almost every piece to get Beal.
Listen, the go all in trade shouldn't be made until you are at the doorstep of a championship. Because one you trade 4 picks and young starters, you have only 1 avenue to acquire players. This is almost a given because when you make these trades, you lose not only picks but financial flexibility.
This year they should tweak. If you can get a guy like Drummond for cheap, fine. But they need to focus on consolidating all their even tiered talent into something a little better. Draft well, see what free agency brings and adjust after that. The Knicks big all in deal should not happen for another 3-5 years. Is that wasting Randle? Idk. I know that I don't trust him just yet that this is sustainable and long term. These guys are still in the development stage.
Ultimateknicks board united for a change!
Either we keep on doing as we're doing and make the playoffs, or we falter and get a draft pick in a good draft- I'm genuinely fine with either outcome
joec32033 wrote:Listening to the NY media the last few days just infuriates me when it comes to a topic like this. I've listened to Mike Kay and his show and Dimitri and those guys wine and complain about the Knicks having to trade almost every piece to get Beal. Listen, the go all in trade shouldn't be made until you are at the doorstep of a championship. Because one you trade 4 picks and young starters, you have only 1 avenue to acquire players. This is almost a given because when you make these trades, you lose not only picks but financial flexibility.
This year they should tweak. If you can get a guy like Drummond for cheap, fine. But they need to focus on consolidating all their even tiered talent into something a little better. Draft well, see what free agency brings and adjust after that. The Knicks big all in deal should not happen for another 3-5 years. Is that wasting Randle? Idk. I know that I don't trust him just yet that this is sustainable and long term. These guys are still in the development stage.
I'll go a step further and maybe that is what you are stating too - this year and maybe even next year, you just sit tight on the big trades. Maybe you sign a player or 2 in the offseason that fills out your cap space some, but that's it.
joec32033 wrote:Listening to the NY media the last few days just infuriates me when it comes to a topic like this. I've listened to Mike Kay and his show and Dimitri and those guys wine and complain about the Knicks having to trade almost every piece to get Beal. Listen, the go all in trade shouldn't be made until you are at the doorstep of a championship. Because one you trade 4 picks and young starters, you have only 1 avenue to acquire players. This is almost a given because when you make these trades, you lose not only picks but financial flexibility.
This year they should tweak. If you can get a guy like Drummond for cheap, fine. But they need to focus on consolidating all their even tiered talent into something a little better. Draft well, see what free agency brings and adjust after that. The Knicks big all in deal should not happen for another 3-5 years. Is that wasting Randle? Idk. I know that I don't trust him just yet that this is sustainable and long term. These guys are still in the development stage.
Once you have 2 stars, FA will flock for cheap.
The LAKERS went from Lottery to championship in 24 months
BigDaddyG wrote:I would jump on both those trades. Realistically, both are probably going to cost more. Knox's value is low and Obi doesn't get enough time to showcase his skills. I think you need to add a fourth pick to the Beal package and maybe four picks for Lavine. I mean, Jrue Holiday cost three first-rounders and two swaps.
Way more! Someone in this thread just called Knox deadweight. Why would the Wiz or Bulls want to trade their best players (2 potential allstars) for Knox and Frank, 2 guys that never take off their warm ups for a 14-16 team?
Have to give to get. Randle, RJ or IQ would have to be on the table and that's just for starters....
knicks1248 wrote:joec32033 wrote:Listening to the NY media the last few days just infuriates me when it comes to a topic like this. I've listened to Mike Kay and his show and Dimitri and those guys wine and complain about the Knicks having to trade almost every piece to get Beal. Listen, the go all in trade shouldn't be made until you are at the doorstep of a championship. Because one you trade 4 picks and young starters, you have only 1 avenue to acquire players. This is almost a given because when you make these trades, you lose not only picks but financial flexibility.
This year they should tweak. If you can get a guy like Drummond for cheap, fine. But they need to focus on consolidating all their even tiered talent into something a little better. Draft well, see what free agency brings and adjust after that. The Knicks big all in deal should not happen for another 3-5 years. Is that wasting Randle? Idk. I know that I don't trust him just yet that this is sustainable and long term. These guys are still in the development stage.
Once you have 2 stars, FA will flock for cheap.
The LAKERS went from Lottery to championship in 24 months
dc had beal + wall, had cap space and couldnt even get a call with durant. lakers having james as a fa was a bit of a help in that transition.
There are not many players that by themselves would make the Knicks competitive. Beal makes me think, honestly. But, I (clearly since we are unanimous) went with stay the course. The way this team is playing (forgetting yesterday), I enjoy watching them. So, I am really comfortable letting them do their thing, shocking a super team every once in a while.
don't understand the comments that these guys will cost more
who specifically has more to offer and where it makes sense for them to do so? OKC is stockpiled but they're nor thinking Beal or Lavine at this point
a lot of teams have shot their wad at this point
I want winners. These guys aren't winners. Not like Julius.
martin wrote:joec32033 wrote:Listening to the NY media the last few days just infuriates me when it comes to a topic like this. I've listened to Mike Kay and his show and Dimitri and those guys wine and complain about the Knicks having to trade almost every piece to get Beal. Listen, the go all in trade shouldn't be made until you are at the doorstep of a championship. Because one you trade 4 picks and young starters, you have only 1 avenue to acquire players. This is almost a given because when you make these trades, you lose not only picks but financial flexibility.
This year they should tweak. If you can get a guy like Drummond for cheap, fine. But they need to focus on consolidating all their even tiered talent into something a little better. Draft well, see what free agency brings and adjust after that. The Knicks big all in deal should not happen for another 3-5 years. Is that wasting Randle? Idk. I know that I don't trust him just yet that this is sustainable and long term. These guys are still in the development stage.
I'll go a step further and maybe that is what you are stating too - this year and maybe even next year, you just sit tight on the big trades. Maybe you sign a player or 2 in the offseason that fills out your cap space some, but that's it.
Exactly. I would try to fill the SF/SG 3D spot. I think it will be much cheaper and much more cost effective to improve the SF spot by alot then the PG spot by a little. Say what you will,, Payton deserves some credit. Our PG rotation is pretty solid, and if Quick is the answer there you don't want to block the road..
See if you can package Knox and Frank and Iggy to get an upgrade guy. Bullock and Burke are great off the bench but not starters. Look at guys like Will Barton, Rudy Gay, Derozan.....just gap fillers that will lead to an incremental improvement. In all honesty I am not even worried about getting a guy who is a great defender. This is a Thibs team. Whoever they get will defend. This year is not about going all in. Too many holes to fill to give up ways to get players. This year was never even about playoffs anyway, and if we can even get into the 7-10 playoff (where they realistically with a little tweaking can probably get in the 5/6 range with just improving that SF spot and adding some true shooting) it will be a victory. Then you fill holes with FA and the draft (personally I would package picks to get as high up as I can). Once you have that solid base of multiple skilled players you can start thinking about trading those shorter term future assets for that final piece to maximize your window.
But that is just my opinion....
Honestly speaking I'd rather trade for Harrison Barnes. I don't want to trade for Harrison Barnes.
sidsanders wrote:knicks1248 wrote:joec32033 wrote:Listening to the NY media the last few days just infuriates me when it comes to a topic like this. I've listened to Mike Kay and his show and Dimitri and those guys wine and complain about the Knicks having to trade almost every piece to get Beal. Listen, the go all in trade shouldn't be made until you are at the doorstep of a championship. Because one you trade 4 picks and young starters, you have only 1 avenue to acquire players. This is almost a given because when you make these trades, you lose not only picks but financial flexibility.
This year they should tweak. If you can get a guy like Drummond for cheap, fine. But they need to focus on consolidating all their even tiered talent into something a little better. Draft well, see what free agency brings and adjust after that. The Knicks big all in deal should not happen for another 3-5 years. Is that wasting Randle? Idk. I know that I don't trust him just yet that this is sustainable and long term. These guys are still in the development stage.
Once you have 2 stars, FA will flock for cheap.
The LAKERS went from Lottery to championship in 24 months
dc had beal + wall, had cap space and couldnt even get a call with durant. lakers having james as a fa was a bit of a help in that transition.
When you have 2 stars, in order for you to be desirable, your stars actually have to win. I think there were way too many years of either John Wall or Bradley Beal constantly being hurt to be a desired destination among FA.
TPercy wrote:Honestly speaking I'd rather trade for Harrison Barnes. I don't want to trade for Harrison Barnes.
I saw him on Sacramento when I was combing over SF's. Another perfectly viable starting caliber possibly cheap option.
joec32033 wrote:TPercy wrote:Honestly speaking I'd rather trade for Harrison Barnes. I don't want to trade for Harrison Barnes.
I saw him on Sacramento when I was combing over SF's. Another perfectly viable starting caliber possibly cheap option.
Got no qualms with him as a player and he would be at the top of my list if his contract was 2 yrs instead of 3. I'd prefer to preserve as much space as possible for 2022 FA for Steph and Kawhi to bring it home.
I want to see the knicks young core of Mitch, Randle,RJ, Quickley and Toppin be joined by Ball and Lavin during the season. That is something that is impossible to happen, I know. That said I would Rather see the knicks just stay the course and probably make small deals for center help or added shooting. Lets see how far this group can go. Maybe aside from the 2 first round picks the knicks have, that can try to lure a star like Kawhi Leonard or Oladipo and maybe get Lonzo to sign as well at a discount in the offseason. That would be nice.
