Knicks · Prep for Trade Deadline (page 2)
We need to be happy with D.Rose this season.
Will Randle in his new role as a point-forward (LOL) let Alonzo Ball run the Knicks offense? I doubt it.
Randle dont like Rivers, Quickley, or Frank running the Knicks offense. Randle only favors Payton running the Knicks offense.
And I doubt Lavine will let Randle run the offense on every possession like Randle been doing the past two seasons as a Knicks.
The 2020-21 Knicks season belong to the development of all the Knicks young-core players who been cheated-out of their NBA rookie program by our FO 4 head coaches in 4 seasons.
What are your thoughts regarding Rozier's fit with the knicks?
Jimbo5 wrote:There are reports coming out that Rozier is now emerging as the lead target at the point guard position. He is currently averaging 20.5pts, 3.8 rebs, 3.2 assists. Im not really sure about trading for Rozier, he seems like a scorer and not much of a distributor. I haven't seen any of his games. It seems like we will be replacing Payton with a ball dominant lead guard with tunnel vision. How is his defense?What are your thoughts regarding Rozier's fit with the knicks?
I dunno. On one hand, a point guard who does not pass. On the other, he does score and defend very well. Costs $18m per and only one more season remaining on his contract. So will not be a long term problem. But not a long term solution either. Might make a difference this year between us making it past the first round of playoffs or not. Then what?
NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.
There’s just no way you think that is a fair trade for us. We are giving up a top 15-20 player and getting a highly suspect youngin and a first?
What I actually want to say is after a long time the team makes sense and I’m not waiting for a trade deadline in the style of “do anything, it can’t be worse than this”.
If the opportunity arises, we know what our needs are. If not, we are not in a position to go all in anyway and we need to be patient.
If they go after a PG by the deadline, the cost might be bench players plus one 1st rounder and maybe second rounder. Then with that they can keep most of their 1st rounders to continue to fortify the bench.
I would be happy if they go this way.
Jimbo5 wrote:I do think the knicks will make a move by the trade deadline. The way I see it, the knicks are two players away from being a force once again in the NBA(Starting PG and a Starting wing). I have a feeling it could be a point guard before the deadline and the starting wing via an offseason signing.(Oladipo or Kahwi)If they go after a PG by the deadline, the cost might be bench players plus one 1st rounder and maybe second rounder. Then with that they can keep most of their 1st rounders to continue to fortify the bench.
I would be happy if they go this way.
No Aller will likely make some moves. Guys who are outplaying their contracts like Bullock and Burks should either be traded or earmarked as long term pieces. Also Rivers is doing nothing, and we have cap space to absorb salary.
I really doubt we don’t make some moves in the next few days. Also Louis King and Braz book looks like they could earn some minutes on the main team as a call up and we would need roster space for that.
NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.
If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS
One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.
So now they must be thinking, they can't trade noel, burk or payton who have been a big part of the team.
So are we sellers or Buyers?
knicks1248 wrote:I think the knicks are in a sticky situation because (like mills) when they signed guys to one yr deals in hopes of trading them (mid season) for draft picks and bad contracts. But i don't think they could have for seen the team being smack dead in the middle of playoff hunt.So now they must be thinking, they can't trade noel, burk or payton who have been a big part of the team.
So are we sellers or Buyers?
Neither. Of all our players, only Randle has a certain value, without being someone who will be much better in a few years than he is today. But even he is worth a lot more to us than other teams are willing to pay for him.
Of course you will do due diligence and inquire discreetly how much he is worth in the market and I believe it will still be a bit disappointing. Also, of course you will see whether there is a possibility to bring some good player below cost. But we are not in a position we should be in a hurry with either selling or buying.
TPercy wrote:I feel iffy about Lonzo but he's litterally everything we want in a PG. He's shooting 38% for two seasons straight on really high volume, he's proven as a passer, and is a plus defender. Not to mention he's improved every year hes been in the league but I'm not sure. We've had success with Randle in taking a chance on a young guy in hopes he'd take that next step and maybe Lonzo would do the same assuming we extend him.
What’s the odds we can get him in RFA? Like are the Pelicans really going to tie significant cap into him? Idk we might be able to just poison pill his contract.
knicks1248 wrote:I think the knicks are in a sticky situation because (like mills) when they signed guys to one yr deals in hopes of trading them (mid season) for draft picks and bad contracts. But i don't think they could have for seen the team being smack dead in the middle of playoff hunt.So now they must be thinking, they can't trade noel, burk or payton who have been a big part of the team.
So are we sellers or Buyers?
1248 alludes to the article posted today about Aller using those guys and perhaps trading for future picks. Basically using cap space and converting them before they expire.
Picks are form of currency.
When an electrical damn has more power then called for they pump water back up and let it flow again. There is some power lost but there is some return. On electric cars and buses its called “regenerative breaking”. The generated friction is a brake and some power is returned to the battery.
Teams do this frequently especially with 2nd round picks. In the referenced article Thibs is known to want to win now and Aller is about space and picks. Leon makes the final call. Good read.
So with this info 1248 brings up a good question about being a buy or seller? How long is Taj out? When is Mitch due back and will he be ready to go? So the need for Drummond is really moot unless there is a long term desire. rumors that Drum might just get bought out?
I can see Burks, Bullock or Elf as not having much value as they are FA unless a contender needs insurance or injury stop gap unless we are cooking up something entirely different. Given what I see I’d say Leon is a bargain shopper and will buy if he gets his price.
wargames wrote:TPercy wrote:I feel iffy about Lonzo but he's litterally everything we want in a PG. He's shooting 38% for two seasons straight on really high volume, he's proven as a passer, and is a plus defender. Not to mention he's improved every year hes been in the league but I'm not sure. We've had success with Randle in taking a chance on a young guy in hopes he'd take that next step and maybe Lonzo would do the same assuming we extend him.What’s the odds we can get him in RFA? Like are the Pelicans really going to tie significant cap into him? Idk we might be able to just poison pill his contract.
I was hopeful we could land Lonzo for cheap, but then he went on a tear and re-found his 3pt shot, so doubt Pelicans try moving him now (maybe if the go Ona. Losing streak after the all star break.
A cheaper trade option would likely be Devonte Graham- injured, plus the meregence of Monk, Rozier AND LaMelo means I doubt he has a future in Charlotte. Hasn’t played well this season either. If we can try him out for cheap, I’d take the risk, as I don’t see what other PGs we can realistically land either by trade of free agency.
smackeddog wrote:wargames wrote:TPercy wrote:I feel iffy about Lonzo but he's litterally everything we want in a PG. He's shooting 38% for two seasons straight on really high volume, he's proven as a passer, and is a plus defender. Not to mention he's improved every year hes been in the league but I'm not sure. We've had success with Randle in taking a chance on a young guy in hopes he'd take that next step and maybe Lonzo would do the same assuming we extend him.What’s the odds we can get him in RFA? Like are the Pelicans really going to tie significant cap into him? Idk we might be able to just poison pill his contract.
I was hopeful we could land Lonzo for cheap, but then he went on a tear and re-found his 3pt shot, so doubt Pelicans try moving him now (maybe if the go Ona. Losing streak after the all star break.
A cheaper trade option would likely be Devonte Graham- injured, plus the meregence of Monk, Rozier AND LaMelo means I doubt he has a future in Charlotte. Hasn’t played well this season either. If we can try him out for cheap, I’d take the risk, as I don’t see what other PGs we can realistically land either by trade of free agency.
I'd be down for Devonte as a cheap tryout. He's repped by CAA, so start the rumors. I'm not sure he's a Thibs style point guard Thibs seems to like burners who attack the paint..
The question for buyers is, will that player you acquire be good enough to take you to the next fell now and in the future.
TPercy wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.
There’s just no way you think that is a fair trade for us. We are giving up a top 15-20 player and getting a highly suspect youngin and a first?
If you honestly think Julius Randle is a top 15-20 player, why are we barely above .500; particularly in the Eastern Conference?
I wouldn't trade Randle for Bagley, obviously; Bagley is already a spent asset. I'd make that type of trade for a draft pick that could potentially be top-5 in a draft set to be one of the best all-time. That type of talent is the real ticket to success.
smackeddog wrote:wargames wrote:TPercy wrote:I feel iffy about Lonzo but he's litterally everything we want in a PG. He's shooting 38% for two seasons straight on really high volume, he's proven as a passer, and is a plus defender. Not to mention he's improved every year hes been in the league but I'm not sure. We've had success with Randle in taking a chance on a young guy in hopes he'd take that next step and maybe Lonzo would do the same assuming we extend him.What’s the odds we can get him in RFA? Like are the Pelicans really going to tie significant cap into him? Idk we might be able to just poison pill his contract.
I was hopeful we could land Lonzo for cheap, but then he went on a tear and re-found his 3pt shot, so doubt Pelicans try moving him now (maybe if the go Ona. Losing streak after the all star break.
A cheaper trade option would likely be Devonte Graham- injured, plus the meregence of Monk, Rozier AND LaMelo means I doubt he has a future in Charlotte. Hasn’t played well this season either. If we can try him out for cheap, I’d take the risk, as I don’t see what other PGs we can realistically land either by trade of free agency.
I doubt the Hornets give Graham up. As much as Monk may have put together several good games, the guy was an afterthought for most of his career....until his contract year. Wise teams know that it is best to have those types walk in free agency. My money is on Monk getting traded at the deadline with Graham remaining as their future 6th man.
BigDaddyG wrote:smackeddog wrote:wargames wrote:TPercy wrote:I feel iffy about Lonzo but he's litterally everything we want in a PG. He's shooting 38% for two seasons straight on really high volume, he's proven as a passer, and is a plus defender. Not to mention he's improved every year hes been in the league but I'm not sure. We've had success with Randle in taking a chance on a young guy in hopes he'd take that next step and maybe Lonzo would do the same assuming we extend him.What’s the odds we can get him in RFA? Like are the Pelicans really going to tie significant cap into him? Idk we might be able to just poison pill his contract.
I was hopeful we could land Lonzo for cheap, but then he went on a tear and re-found his 3pt shot, so doubt Pelicans try moving him now (maybe if the go Ona. Losing streak after the all star break.
A cheaper trade option would likely be Devonte Graham- injured, plus the meregence of Monk, Rozier AND LaMelo means I doubt he has a future in Charlotte. Hasn’t played well this season either. If we can try him out for cheap, I’d take the risk, as I don’t see what other PGs we can realistically land either by trade of free agency.
I'd be down for Devonte as a cheap tryout. He's repped by CAA, so start the rumors. I'm not sure he's a Thibs style point guard Thibs seems to like burners who attack the paint..
He seems like he gets to the paint well enough. Graham's problem seems to be his ability to finish when he does. In spite of that, I think his ability to move with or without the ball would mesh well with Randle and Barrett if they're healthy. But I'm far more interested in seeing what Quickly matures into than squandering assets on redundant talent.
fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.
If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS
One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.
We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.
Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.
This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).
NardDogNation wrote:fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.
If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS
One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.
We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.
Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.
This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).
The reason I don't like the trade is that you're taking on a bunch of trash while getting one draft pick. I think you need multiple firsts just to pick up the phone. Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone is untradable. Just need the right package.
BigDaddyG wrote:NardDogNation wrote:fishmike wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.
If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS
One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.
We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.
Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.
This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).
The reason I don't like the trade is that you're taking on a bunch of trash while getting one draft pick. I think you need multiple firsts just to pick up the phone. Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone is untradable. Just need the right package.
Fair enough. I'd have no interest in keeping Bagley and co. I only proposed them because they are expendable talents that allow us to match salaries without screwing up our cap sheet next season. How much more in draft compensation could we get back for moving Randle though?