Knicks · Does Lonzo showing interest to sign with the knicks in free agency change anything? (page 4)
Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offer
Depending on the deal, I agree. Lonzo will be on a contender, if he goes to the Clips. Hard to pass up LA and a shot at a ring. Probably would have liked it to work out the first time. Guessing we're more willing to take on salary, like Reddick's.
GustavBahler wrote:Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offerDepending on the deal, I agree. Lonzo will be on a contender, if he goes to the Clips. Hard to pass up LA and a shot at a ring. Probably would have liked it to work out the first time. Guessing we're more willing to take on salary, like Reddick's.
I agree depending on the deal. He is a player. A good player. But not THE player.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...
https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...
Knicks receive:
Lonzo Ball
JJ Redick
Pelicans Get:
Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina
Elfrid Payton
2021 first-round pick (via Dal)
2021 second-round pick (via Det)
This is an intriguing mock trade, as Ball is averaging 14.2 points over 31.7 minutes per game. He’s also averaging 5.6 assists, and 1.3 steals this season. He would immediately become the most offensively productive point guard on the team, with Derrick Rose close behind. The problem is, the Knicks will have to part with Frank Ntilikina, their defensive gem, who doesn’t offer much support on offense but is a solid backup who can hold a team’s top scorer down.
Loop in the first and second-round pick, plus Kevin Knox and Elfrid Payton, New York, walks away with Ball and JJ Redick, who is averaging just 8.7 points at 36 years old. He’s having a down season, but he has family in Brooklyn and would likely rejuvenate given a move to New York.
Random late night makes some sense calways loved reddick
Not to mention that we are likely to get a poison pill type of offer to him as an RFA, so retaining him will constrain our cap.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offerDepending on the deal, I agree. Lonzo will be on a contender, if he goes to the Clips. Hard to pass up LA and a shot at a ring. Probably would have liked it to work out the first time. Guessing we're more willing to take on salary, like Reddick's.
I agree depending on the deal. He is a player. A good player. But not THE player.
At this point it’s really hard to get THE player. Not many candidates will be available unless some dysfunction helps us. Booker must be fine with the streaking Suns, for example.
What if THE player is Randle? He has looked great for us, but we don’t know if there is another level he can reach with a stable PG taking the playmaking load of his back. What if RJ is THE player? He has jumped a few levels this season and if he improves his consistency, the sky is really his limit. His shooting, one of his major flaws, has improved dramatically with better shot selection.
Right now I do believe that improvements like Ball at PG and a guy like Powel at SF, another rumor out there, could really do wonders for this team. Not only would it possibly make them a stronger playoff contender, but if we manage to keep some of our assets, some equation could result in a big trade for a star down the road if we chose to go that way.
ESOMKnicks wrote:Looks okay, my problem is - I do not see Lonzo Ball as the point guard on our 2022-23 championship team.Not to mention that we are likely to get a poison pill type of offer to him as an RFA, so retaining him will constrain our cap.
To be fair, none of us saw keeping Randle past last offseason, and look where we are now.
Ball has improved each season even if his role has been inconsistent. I think that if he came here he would be the definitive PG and could steady his production into the player we have needed for years at that position.
Knicksfan wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offerDepending on the deal, I agree. Lonzo will be on a contender, if he goes to the Clips. Hard to pass up LA and a shot at a ring. Probably would have liked it to work out the first time. Guessing we're more willing to take on salary, like Reddick's.
I agree depending on the deal. He is a player. A good player. But not THE player.
At this point it’s really hard to get THE player. Not many candidates will be available unless some dysfunction helps us. Booker must be fine with the streaking Suns, for example.
What if THE player is Randle? He has looked great for us, but we don’t know if there is another level he can reach with a stable PG taking the playmaking load of his back. What if RJ is THE player? He has jumped a few levels this season and if he improves his consistency, the sky is really his limit. His shooting, one of his major flaws, has improved dramatically with better shot selection.
Right now I do believe that improvements like Ball at PG and a guy like Powel at SF, another rumor out there, could really do wonders for this team. Not only would it possibly make them a stronger playoff contender, but if we manage to keep some of our assets, some equation could result in a big trade for a star down the road if we chose to go that way.
Great post but not what I meant. I was referring to his worth vs. His trade value. I meant he isn't the player you give up everything for.
“He not the same”. True. But what is the incremental line for him? By that how is he per 10 game increments.
What’s his prognosis long term from that injury? Perhaps Dr Callahan an chime in. She is not picking up my calls.
I’d like to see Brock Allers laptop but he wont show me his “Greaseboard” of targets. Tried to get Zannin drunk to spill the beans but he not biting.
Lonzo? Like to see him with OBI in transition. That could be fun. I don’t think I have ever seen Mitch out on a break. If you dont have good defense the transition game gets stagnant. Few teams do both well. More to this than just a video game trade plugging in one guy for another.
From what I’m reading this morning Thibs sounding like he preparing or fans to not expect much by the deadline. This is usually the case anyway, more hype then substance. Rivers by his absence looks to be about gone.
I’d like to see Payton either gone or on the bench. I just dont’ think he moves the dial enough to take minutes form frank or IQ and there is just so much DRose can do minutes wise. I know this is counter to Thibs “win in the moment” but its just my opinion that we are not losing much with Elf on the Shelf. My agenda is to play Frank and lets get on with it or close that door this season with him.
Knicksfan wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:Looks okay, my problem is - I do not see Lonzo Ball as the point guard on our 2022-23 championship team.Not to mention that we are likely to get a poison pill type of offer to him as an RFA, so retaining him will constrain our cap.
To be fair, none of us saw keeping Randle past last offseason, and look where we are now.
Ball has improved each season even if his role has been inconsistent. I think that if he came here he would be the definitive PG and could steady his production into the player we have needed for years at that position.
Randle was a low-risk high-upside gamble. He did not cost us any assets (the Porzingis trade does not count, since it was not done with Randle in mind), just cap space for 3 years and a roster spot. And if he keeps this up for another several years, then yes, the gamble will have paid off.
Trading for Lonzo will take assets. If we are really keen on repeating the Randle gamble, why not simply try to pry Lonzo away in the summer via an RFA offer sheet? We would be in a much better position then, instead of being desperate to retain him after we had given up a first rounder for him.
ESOMKnicks wrote:Knicksfan wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:Looks okay, my problem is - I do not see Lonzo Ball as the point guard on our 2022-23 championship team.Not to mention that we are likely to get a poison pill type of offer to him as an RFA, so retaining him will constrain our cap.
To be fair, none of us saw keeping Randle past last offseason, and look where we are now.
Ball has improved each season even if his role has been inconsistent. I think that if he came here he would be the definitive PG and could steady his production into the player we have needed for years at that position.
Randle was a low-risk high-upside gamble. He did not cost us any assets (the Porzingis trade does not count, since it was not done with Randle in mind), just cap space for 3 years and a roster spot. And if he keeps this up for another several years, then yes, the gamble will have paid off.
Trading for Lonzo will take assets. If we are really keen on repeating the Randle gamble, why not simply try to pry Lonzo away in the summer via an RFA offer sheet? We would be in a much better position then, instead of being desperate to retain him after we had given up a first rounder for him.
I would expect before a deal is consummated an understanding of what it would take to resign a player is understood. A player no intent on resigning can also state that upfront. Lowers the value of a trade but its a good faith practice. Carlos BOozer was an awful exception when he fucked over the Cav’s.
A trade also gives team bird rights. Its a win win for all.
As for Randle being part of the KP deal? Its conceptual. Fans were upset at first because Randle was not playing great “we created cap space for this!!!!”. Remember we traded Timmy also. If the trade created that space then you can count it. Knicks did give Randle a nice contract and a great opportunity. Yes, they saw potential. Give them some credit. Its the best kind of thing you can do! Get players who outperform their previous games. Call it luck but he opportunity was there.
babyKnicks wrote:Possibly
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...
Knicks receive:
Lonzo Ball
JJ RedickPelicans Get:
Kevin Knox, Frank NtilikinaElfrid Payton
2021 first-round pick (via Dal)
2021 second-round pick (via Det)This is an intriguing mock trade, as Ball is averaging 14.2 points over 31.7 minutes per game. He’s also averaging 5.6 assists, and 1.3 steals this season. He would immediately become the most offensively productive point guard on the team, with Derrick Rose close behind. The problem is, the Knicks will have to part with Frank Ntilikina, their defensive gem, who doesn’t offer much support on offense but is a solid backup who can hold a team’s top scorer down.
Loop in the first and second-round pick, plus Kevin Knox and Elfrid Payton, New York, walks away with Ball and JJ Redick, who is averaging just 8.7 points at 36 years old. He’s having a down season, but he has family in Brooklyn and would likely rejuvenate given a move to New York.
Random late night makes some sense calways loved reddick
Why does trading for Redick makes sense though? Knicks have Bullock, Burks, and RJ (and I'd count IQ more as a shooter than PG) firmly in the wing positions. So why Redick? To make him the 14 player on bench in a 10 man rotation?
I'd say that the Malcolm Brogdon to Indiana trade should be a benchmark on a player of a certain caliber and what you need to trade him as a RFA. Knox, Frank and what amounts to 2 late firsts seems high IMHO
Knicksfan wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:Looks okay, my problem is - I do not see Lonzo Ball as the point guard on our 2022-23 championship team.Not to mention that we are likely to get a poison pill type of offer to him as an RFA, so retaining him will constrain our cap.
To be fair, none of us saw keeping Randle past last offseason, and look where we are now.
Ball has improved each season even if his role has been inconsistent. I think that if he came here he would be the definitive PG and could steady his production into the player we have needed for years at that position.
You have to believe he is about to become a borderline all-star to make the trade. I thik Ball will flourish here. I would do the worse of our two first round picks
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Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offer
That is exactly why we need to trade for him rather than try to sign him in free agency. We need to be able to match any offer.
martin wrote:babyKnicks wrote:Possibly
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...
Knicks receive:
Lonzo Ball
JJ RedickPelicans Get:
Kevin Knox, Frank NtilikinaElfrid Payton
2021 first-round pick (via Dal)
2021 second-round pick (via Det)This is an intriguing mock trade, as Ball is averaging 14.2 points over 31.7 minutes per game. He’s also averaging 5.6 assists, and 1.3 steals this season. He would immediately become the most offensively productive point guard on the team, with Derrick Rose close behind. The problem is, the Knicks will have to part with Frank Ntilikina, their defensive gem, who doesn’t offer much support on offense but is a solid backup who can hold a team’s top scorer down.
Loop in the first and second-round pick, plus Kevin Knox and Elfrid Payton, New York, walks away with Ball and JJ Redick, who is averaging just 8.7 points at 36 years old. He’s having a down season, but he has family in Brooklyn and would likely rejuvenate given a move to New York.
Random late night makes some sense calways loved reddick
Why does trading for Redick makes sense though? Knicks have Bullock, Burks, and RJ (and I'd count IQ more as a shooter than PG) firmly in the wing positions. So why Redick? To make him the 14 player on bench in a 10 man rotation?
I'd say that the Malcolm Brogdon to Indiana trade should be a benchmark on a player of a certain caliber and what you need to trade him as a RFA. Knox, Frank and what amounts to 2 late firsts seems high IMHO
When we are completely healthy, Knox and Frank are more than likely collecting DNP's. A late first and a second round pick ain't enough for a starting pg the caliber of Ball especially when you consider that the Pels can get better packages elsewhere.
ramtour420 wrote:Is Lonzo really worth all of this (trading and signing to a big contract)? This kinda reminds me of drafting quarterbacks in the NFL. Just because you're the #1 rated quarterback in the draft doesn't mean you have the potential to be Elway or Peyton Manning. Lonzo may be the best available point guard right now, but it doesn't mean he's a franchise PG. Maybe he'll develop into one of the best, but that's a serious gamble considering what you would have to trade and pay him. He is clearly better than anybody we currently have, I just question if he's worth what it would take to get him?Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offerThat is exactly why we need to trade for him rather than try to sign him in free agency. We need to be able to match any offer.
Welpee wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Is Lonzo really worth all of this (trading and signing to a big contract)? This kinda reminds me of drafting quarterbacks in the NFL. Just because you're the #1 rated quarterback in the draft doesn't mean you have the potential to be Elway or Peyton Manning. Lonzo may be the best available point guard right now, but it doesn't mean he's a franchise PG. Maybe he'll develop into one of the best, but that's a serious gamble considering what you would have to trade and pay him. He is clearly better than anybody we currently have, I just question if he's worth what it would take to get him?Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offerThat is exactly why we need to trade for him rather than try to sign him in free agency. We need to be able to match any offer.
He is from a sports family. He has improved on his game every season in the league. If we get him now he will be an all star under Thibs. He fits like a glove with our defensive approach and our transition game would finally be formidable. We have the D to start fast breaks. As far as his game the only knock on him was his shooting. Kinda like Jason Kidd when he was younger:) I would like to subscribe to your newsletter¡¡!!
babyKnicks wrote:Possibly
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-k...
Knicks receive:
Lonzo Ball
JJ RedickPelicans Get:
Kevin Knox, Frank NtilikinaElfrid Payton
2021 first-round pick (via Dal)
2021 second-round pick (via Det)This is an intriguing mock trade, as Ball is averaging 14.2 points over 31.7 minutes per game. He’s also averaging 5.6 assists, and 1.3 steals this season. He would immediately become the most offensively productive point guard on the team, with Derrick Rose close behind. The problem is, the Knicks will have to part with Frank Ntilikina, their defensive gem, who doesn’t offer much support on offense but is a solid backup who can hold a team’s top scorer down.
Loop in the first and second-round pick, plus Kevin Knox and Elfrid Payton, New York, walks away with Ball and JJ Redick, who is averaging just 8.7 points at 36 years old. He’s having a down season, but he has family in Brooklyn and would likely rejuvenate given a move to New York.
Random late night makes some sense calways loved reddick
This is why I don't want a Lonzo trade. We shouldn't trade our picks in this draft under any circumstances. Would rather take chances in FA.
ramtour420 wrote:Lonzo seems like he thrives more in the open court than in the half court game. Will Thibs be willing to play more up-tempo to better suit what Lonzo does best?Welpee wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Is Lonzo really worth all of this (trading and signing to a big contract)? This kinda reminds me of drafting quarterbacks in the NFL. Just because you're the #1 rated quarterback in the draft doesn't mean you have the potential to be Elway or Peyton Manning. Lonzo may be the best available point guard right now, but it doesn't mean he's a franchise PG. Maybe he'll develop into one of the best, but that's a serious gamble considering what you would have to trade and pay him. He is clearly better than anybody we currently have, I just question if he's worth what it would take to get him?Jmpasq wrote:I would trade for him. If he gets traded whatever team gets him will match the RFA offerThat is exactly why we need to trade for him rather than try to sign him in free agency. We need to be able to match any offer.
He is from a sports family. He has improved on his game every season in the league. If we get him now he will be an all star under Thibs. He fits like a glove with our defensive approach and our transition game would finally be formidable. We have the D to start fast breaks. As far as his game the only knock on him was his shooting. Kinda like Jason Kidd when he was younger:) I would like to subscribe to your newsletter¡¡!!