Knicks · My Still Too Early 2021 Offseason (page 1)

I think with a team that looks playoff bound, you maybe try to keep that core together and use spare parts to upgrade through the 10th man. Despite the deep draft, I’m not sure those team needs more youth right now.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

Ball (14 pts, 5 ast 38% 3
Barrett (18pts 38% 3
Grant 20 pts, 38% 3
Randle 24 pts, 10 Rebs, 40% 3
Wood 18pts, 10 Rebs, 38% 3

Rose 14 pts
Quick 12 pts
Bullock
Taj
Noel

I leave out Burks regularly in these posts. Not that I’m against him, but if I have to choose between him and Bullock, I think I choose Bullock.

I’m not opposed to bringing Payton back either, just think we run out of money at some point and I prefer Rose.

Feel like it might be worth using up some resources to put together a team like that. I know guys like Grant and Wood aren’t specifically on the trading block. But with their respective W/L ratio and their short term contracts, it seems logical that they should stock up on assets and start over. Each player’s skill is wasted and there isn’t enough contract on their deals to wait a lot longer to trade them.

EwingsGlass wrote:So, being in 4th place seemed impossible just a couple months ago. But the way I look at this team has changed as they show their capacity to win. As I look at the free agent market, I don’t see a lot. We should take a swing at Kawhi, but I’m not sure he is a real option.

I think with a team that looks playoff bound, you maybe try to keep that core together and use spare parts to upgrade through the 10th man. Despite the deep draft, I’m not sure those team needs more youth right now.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

Ball (14 pts, 5 ast 38% 3
Barrett (18pts 38% 3
Grant 20 pts, 38% 3
Randle 24 pts, 10 Rebs, 40% 3
Wood 18pts, 10 Rebs, 38% 3

Rose 14 pts
Quick 12 pts
Bullock
Taj
Noel

I leave out Burks regularly in these posts. Not that I’m against him, but if I have to choose between him and Bullock, I think I choose Bullock.

I’m not opposed to bringing Payton back either, just think we run out of money at some point and I prefer Rose.

Feel like it might be worth using up some resources to put together a team like that. I know guys like Grant and Wood aren’t specifically on the trading block. But with their respective W/L ratio and their short term contracts, it seems logical that they should stock up on assets and start over. Each player’s skill is wasted and there isn’t enough contract on their deals to wait a lot longer to trade them.

I wouldn’t want to turn out negative because this is a great plan and I would really love a team like that, but:

1) As I wrote, Ball and Schroder have pretty similar numbers, and Schroder recently declined 4 yr / 84 million, in other words, I want to say that Pelicans would match 18 million per season in a second, I think there is a much better chance of bringing him via sign & trade

2) I honestly don’t believe Detroit would give him even close for that, you have to consider that our picks aren’t that “sexy” anymore given that they would very likely be in the 20-25 range

3) Same thing as in the point above

xavier wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:So, being in 4th place seemed impossible just a couple months ago. But the way I look at this team has changed as they show their capacity to win. As I look at the free agent market, I don’t see a lot. We should take a swing at Kawhi, but I’m not sure he is a real option.

I think with a team that looks playoff bound, you maybe try to keep that core together and use spare parts to upgrade through the 10th man. Despite the deep draft, I’m not sure those team needs more youth right now.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

Ball (14 pts, 5 ast 38% 3
Barrett (18pts 38% 3
Grant 20 pts, 38% 3
Randle 24 pts, 10 Rebs, 40% 3
Wood 18pts, 10 Rebs, 38% 3

Rose 14 pts
Quick 12 pts
Bullock
Taj
Noel

I leave out Burks regularly in these posts. Not that I’m against him, but if I have to choose between him and Bullock, I think I choose Bullock.

I’m not opposed to bringing Payton back either, just think we run out of money at some point and I prefer Rose.

Feel like it might be worth using up some resources to put together a team like that. I know guys like Grant and Wood aren’t specifically on the trading block. But with their respective W/L ratio and their short term contracts, it seems logical that they should stock up on assets and start over. Each player’s skill is wasted and there isn’t enough contract on their deals to wait a lot longer to trade them.

I wouldn’t want to turn out negative because this is a great plan and I would really love a team like that, but:

1) As I wrote, Ball and Schroder have pretty similar numbers, and Schroder recently declined 4 yr / 84 million, in other words, I want to say that Pelicans would match 18 million per season in a second, I think there is a much better chance of bringing him via sign & trade

2) I honestly don’t believe Detroit would give him even close for that, you have to consider that our picks aren’t that “sexy” anymore given that they would very likely be in the 20-25 range

3) Same thing as in the point above

I agree with you on all three points. I might be a bit optimistic in what we can achieve. I see these guys as best players on bad teams that the teams got for nothing but will have less than 2 years left on the contract (ie dwindling assets). We have a pile of 1s and even more 2s...

Clearly if there are FAs that line up in those positions without giving up assets, I’d be more for that...

xavier wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:So, being in 4th place seemed impossible just a couple months ago. But the way I look at this team has changed as they show their capacity to win. As I look at the free agent market, I don’t see a lot. We should take a swing at Kawhi, but I’m not sure he is a real option.

I think with a team that looks playoff bound, you maybe try to keep that core together and use spare parts to upgrade through the 10th man. Despite the deep draft, I’m not sure those team needs more youth right now.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

Ball (14 pts, 5 ast 38% 3
Barrett (18pts 38% 3
Grant 20 pts, 38% 3
Randle 24 pts, 10 Rebs, 40% 3
Wood 18pts, 10 Rebs, 38% 3

Rose 14 pts
Quick 12 pts
Bullock
Taj
Noel

I leave out Burks regularly in these posts. Not that I’m against him, but if I have to choose between him and Bullock, I think I choose Bullock.

I’m not opposed to bringing Payton back either, just think we run out of money at some point and I prefer Rose.

Feel like it might be worth using up some resources to put together a team like that. I know guys like Grant and Wood aren’t specifically on the trading block. But with their respective W/L ratio and their short term contracts, it seems logical that they should stock up on assets and start over. Each player’s skill is wasted and there isn’t enough contract on their deals to wait a lot longer to trade them.

I wouldn’t want to turn out negative because this is a great plan and I would really love a team like that, but:

1) As I wrote, Ball and Schroder have pretty similar numbers, and Schroder recently declined 4 yr / 84 million, in other words, I want to say that Pelicans would match 18 million per season in a second, I think there is a much better chance of bringing him via sign & trade

2) I honestly don’t believe Detroit would give him even close for that, you have to consider that our picks aren’t that “sexy” anymore given that they would very likely be in the 20-25 range

3) Same thing as in the point above

As for the starting point guard, im all for getting Ball. A back up plan can be Lowry or Conley(is he a free agent?). But if you want to go the trade route, i want the FO to consider the Pacers' Malcom Bogdon. If he is available he might be worth throwing some 1st rounders at the pacers for.

ekstarks94 wrote:If the Nets picks in perpetuity can get James Harden...why not ours with Woods?

You can’t look at Harden’s trade and hypothetical Wood’s trade in the same way. Harden had been the face of the franchise for years, but now everything had broken down and there was no going back, especially after he requested a trade. Wood, on the other hand, has just came there and he's having a breakout year. I don’t see why the Rockets would trade him unless they get an offer that would knock them off their feet.

martin wrote:I feel like part of this 2021 offseason plan should be for Mitch and Obi to spend the ENTIRE summer working out with Randle

Thibs going to be making several unannounced visits. Let them sleep past 5AM coach - after that they're all yours!

foosballnick wrote:A hint to all Knicks fans who valuate only offensive production when proposing trades. Thibs values players who have a defensive mindset.

I honestly picked all of these players based on their two way production. That and positive wingspan to get more defense at the perimeter. Keep knocking the OPP 3PT% down.

The trick for this team, as I see it, is to get a bit more offense while maintaining the defense. Don't mistake the existence of offensive prowess for the lack of defense.

I acknowledge it may be a pipe dream to make these exact moves, but if they came close, this visualizes the team that I am looking for.

Nalod wrote:I’d like to see Thibs lose a few LB’s himself. Seems he came in fit and is getting a bit paunchy as the season progresses.

Nope nope. No fat shaming in my thread...

EwingsGlass wrote:So, being in 4th place seemed impossible just a couple months ago. But the way I look at this team has changed as they show their capacity to win. As I look at the free agent market, I don’t see a lot. We should take a swing at Kawhi, but I’m not sure he is a real option.

I think with a team that looks playoff bound, you maybe try to keep that core together and use spare parts to upgrade through the 10th man. Despite the deep draft, I’m not sure those team needs more youth right now.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

Ball (14 pts, 5 ast 38% 3
Barrett (18pts 38% 3
Grant 20 pts, 38% 3
Randle 24 pts, 10 Rebs, 40% 3
Wood 18pts, 10 Rebs, 38% 3

Rose 14 pts
Quick 12 pts
Bullock
Taj
Noel

I leave out Burks regularly in these posts. Not that I’m against him, but if I have to choose between him and Bullock, I think I choose Bullock.

I’m not opposed to bringing Payton back either, just think we run out of money at some point and I prefer Rose.

Feel like it might be worth using up some resources to put together a team like that. I know guys like Grant and Wood aren’t specifically on the trading block. But with their respective W/L ratio and their short term contracts, it seems logical that they should stock up on assets and start over. Each player’s skill is wasted and there isn’t enough contract on their deals to wait a lot longer to trade them.

Nice plan, but the player on detroit that I would trade for is ISaiah Stewart, That guy fits this teams identity more than grant, and would come cheaper.

MaTT4281 wrote:

martin wrote:I feel like part of this 2021 offseason plan should be for Mitch and Obi to spend the ENTIRE summer working out with Randle

Thibs going to be making several unannounced visits. Let them sleep past 5AM coach - after that they're all yours!

Yea Toppin needs to do what Randle did this off season 😅

Let him work with his trainer lol

xblvdels3 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

martin wrote:I feel like part of this 2021 offseason plan should be for Mitch and Obi to spend the ENTIRE summer working out with Randle

Thibs going to be making several unannounced visits. Let them sleep past 5AM coach - after that they're all yours!

Yea Toppin needs to do what Randle did this off season 😅

Let him work with his trainer lol

Doesn’t sound like offseason workouts are a problem for these guys. And with this coaching staff interacting with them, it’s a huge positive.

In my head, these things are a given.

My offseason goal is to use our salary cap to bring in emerging players that are on the same or similar timeline as this group, particularly in line with Randle.

I don’t think the Knicks have an issue going over salary cap, even into luxury tax to keep a good team together.

Might be smarter to find FAs that don’t also cost assets, but that is higher risk.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball for $18.5mm. I think he gets around 18.5. Somewhere near Frazier and FVV. The extra few mill may be useful savings when re-signing players. NO may match, but the Knicks can move on to the next best.

2) Sign Norman Powell for 15m. Love his wingspan. Will fit well with this team.

3) Draft Ayo Dosonmu and Greg Brown. In fairness, these guys will likely be in the 11-15 end of the bench, but could use the time with this coaching staff to develop and shore up their weaknesses.

4) With remaining $21mm or so, resign Rose (Bird Exception), Bullock (early Bird) and Noel. This is where some of the cap space will be relevant but so long as the Knicks can maintain the cap holds for Rose and Bullock, they can go over the cap to some degree to resign them.

Ball/Rose/Vildoza
Barrett/IQ/Dosunmu
Powell/Bullock/Brown
Randle/Toppin/Knox
Robinson/Noel/Pelle

EwingsGlass wrote:My latest thought process assumes I can’t pry Jerami Grant or Christian Wood away from their respective teams.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball for $18.5mm. I think he gets around 18.5. Somewhere near Frazier and FVV. The extra few mill may be useful savings when re-signing players. NO may match, but the Knicks can move on to the next best.

2) Sign Norman Powell for 15m. Love his wingspan. Will fit well with this team.

3) Draft Ayo Dosonmu and Greg Brown. In fairness, these guys will likely be in the 11-15 end of the bench, but could use the time with this coaching staff to develop and shore up their weaknesses.

4) With remaining $21mm or so, resign Rose (Bird Exception), Bullock (early Bird) and Noel. This is where some of the cap space will be relevant but so long as the Knicks can maintain the cap holds for Rose and Bullock, they can go over the cap to some degree to resign them.

Ball/Rose/Vildoza
Barrett/IQ/Dosunmu
Powell/Bullock/Brown
Randle/Toppin/Knox
Robinson/Noel/Pelle

Taj gotta come back!

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My latest thought process assumes I can’t pry Jerami Grant or Christian Wood away from their respective teams.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball for $18.5mm. I think he gets around 18.5. Somewhere near Frazier and FVV. The extra few mill may be useful savings when re-signing players. NO may match, but the Knicks can move on to the next best.

2) Sign Norman Powell for 15m. Love his wingspan. Will fit well with this team.

3) Draft Ayo Dosonmu and Greg Brown. In fairness, these guys will likely be in the 11-15 end of the bench, but could use the time with this coaching staff to develop and shore up their weaknesses.

4) With remaining $21mm or so, resign Rose (Bird Exception), Bullock (early Bird) and Noel. This is where some of the cap space will be relevant but so long as the Knicks can maintain the cap holds for Rose and Bullock, they can go over the cap to some degree to resign them.

Ball/Rose/Vildoza
Barrett/IQ/Dosunmu
Powell/Bullock/Brown
Randle/Toppin/Knox
Robinson/Noel/Pelle

Taj gotta come back!

I love Taj and would bring him back for his 36 year old season. It just seemed unlikely when they signed Pelle to a multi year deal though it looks like only $500k is guaranteed, so you could swap Gibson in there on a Vet Min contract and not have any issues.

We still have the 32 pick out there also.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My latest thought process assumes I can’t pry Jerami Grant or Christian Wood away from their respective teams.

1) Sign Lonzo Ball for $18.5mm. I think he gets around 18.5. Somewhere near Frazier and FVV. The extra few mill may be useful savings when re-signing players. NO may match, but the Knicks can move on to the next best.

2) Sign Norman Powell for 15m. Love his wingspan. Will fit well with this team.

3) Draft Ayo Dosonmu and Greg Brown. In fairness, these guys will likely be in the 11-15 end of the bench, but could use the time with this coaching staff to develop and shore up their weaknesses.

4) With remaining $21mm or so, resign Rose (Bird Exception), Bullock (early Bird) and Noel. This is where some of the cap space will be relevant but so long as the Knicks can maintain the cap holds for Rose and Bullock, they can go over the cap to some degree to resign them.

Ball/Rose/Vildoza
Barrett/IQ/Dosunmu
Powell/Bullock/Brown
Randle/Toppin/Knox
Robinson/Noel/Pelle

Taj gotta come back!

I love Taj and would bring him back for his 36 year old season. It just seemed unlikely when they signed Pelle to a multi year deal though it looks like only $500k is guaranteed, so you could swap Gibson in there on a Vet Min contract and not have any issues.

We still have the 32 pick out there also.

I would rather pay a team to have our 32nd pick than let Taj walk.

Sign and trade for Ball
Sign Lowry or Conley to a 2 year deal
Trade for Kemba Walker in a salary dump (just 2 years left on his deal)

If we had traded for Westbrook last offseason we have a very realistic shot at winning it all this year