Knicks · Should the Knicks trade Robinson and Toppin for future 1st round picks? (page 1)
- Noel, Burks, Bullock, Rose all may require multi-year contracts and have been critical to the current success
- Randle is due for an extension or a new max contract next summer. Barrett's extension is around the corner
- Those 6 players mentioned above, plus Quickley and Gibson have become the most important players this season
Knicks are on borrowed time as far as having cap space, and the worst thing they can do is think any of these players can be easily replaced on guys willing to take 1 year contracts just to maintain flexibility. It's possible, but not likely.
Moving Toppin and Robinson for a conditional first round pick each (their likely value) allows the Knicks to keep assets ready and available for the next star on the market. The picks this draft can be used to replace them as depth. Drafting someone like center Isaiah Jackson and a wing like Duarte or a PG like Jared Butler gives multiple NBA ready rookies at needed positions. The original 8 players I mentioned above are essentially 8 out of 9 or 10 rotation players next year.
Basically i'm saying if we don't sign that missing piece this summer or next, the cap space won't be there anyways, and we know most superstars don't make it to free agency. I'm guessing Rose with his connections has his eyes on Embiid or Booker in the future. He probably already has a good feel about Beal or LaVine and if that is realistic. If we deal Robinson and Toppin for 1st round picks now, we would have all of our own picks plus 3 additional 1st round picks (2 from dealing those 2 guys, plus 2023 dallas pick) as available for a future star. It would put us above anyone but OKC and New Orleans, 2 teams that stars probably won't want anyways. If we assume any available star puts the typically teams on their wish lists, the Knicks would likely have the best asset pool for a trade.
So i'm saying use the cap space this summer to resign everyone and add talent if possible, and move the players who haven't been a big part of the success for future picks so we have them ready when the opportunity presents itself. Does that seem practical?
Knixkik wrote:Here's the logic:- Noel, Burks, Bullock, Rose all may require multi-year contracts and have been critical to the current success
- Randle is due for an extension or a new max contract next summer. Barrett's extension is around the corner
- Those 6 players mentioned above, plus Quickley and Gibson have become the most important players this seasonKnicks are on borrowed time as far as having cap space, and the worst thing they can do is think any of these players can be easily replaced on guys willing to take 1 year contracts just to maintain flexibility. It's possible, but not likely.
Moving Toppin and Robinson for a conditional first round pick each (their likely value) allows the Knicks to keep assets ready and available for the next star on the market. The picks this draft can be used to replace them as depth. Drafting someone like center Isaiah Jackson and a wing like Duarte or a PG like Jared Butler gives multiple NBA ready rookies at needed positions. The original 8 players I mentioned above are essentially 8 out of 9 or 10 rotation players next year.
Basically i'm saying if we don't sign that missing piece this summer or next, the cap space won't be there anyways, and we know most superstars don't make it to free agency. I'm guessing Rose with his connections has his eyes on Embiid or Booker in the future. He probably already has a good feel about Beal or LaVine and if that is realistic. If we deal Robinson and Toppin for 1st round picks now, we would have all of our own picks plus 3 additional 1st round picks (2 from dealing those 2 guys, plus 2023 dallas pick) as available for a future star. It would put us above anyone but OKC and New Orleans, 2 teams that stars probably won't want anyways. If we assume any available star puts the typically teams on their wish lists, the Knicks would likely have the best asset pool for a trade.
So i'm saying use the cap space this summer to resign everyone and add talent if possible, and move the players who haven't been a big part of the success for future picks so we have them ready when the opportunity presents itself. Does that seem practical?
The Toppin move doesn't make a lot of sense. You have a lot of control left and you haven't locked up Randle yet. Your depth chart isn't 3 or 4 deep at PF, you are still filling the 10 man rotation. So, I'm not exactly trading him for picks without a deeper plan.
Robinson is interesting. Still have an option on him. You can balance roster depth with more picks. I am back and forth between locking up both Noel and Robinson long term to anchor that defense vs going after a bigger name for that position. I wouldn't force anything, but I am not saying "no" either. I think those two might be the best 1/2 defensive 5 combo out there. Will be interesting to see what happens when we add a pg that can pass. The question I need Robinson to answer is if he will become more than Noel is.
What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
Agreed Robinson is worth a first round pick. That's why I said we should be able to get 1 for each of them without a doubt.
Similarly, I would keep Obi over getting a pick (unless for someone we love). I just don’t see getting any better value at backup PF than Toppin. I’m not against trading him for a wing that is young and on the up and up though
EwingsGlass wrote:Knixkik wrote:Here's the logic:- Noel, Burks, Bullock, Rose all may require multi-year contracts and have been critical to the current success
- Randle is due for an extension or a new max contract next summer. Barrett's extension is around the corner
- Those 6 players mentioned above, plus Quickley and Gibson have become the most important players this seasonKnicks are on borrowed time as far as having cap space, and the worst thing they can do is think any of these players can be easily replaced on guys willing to take 1 year contracts just to maintain flexibility. It's possible, but not likely.
Moving Toppin and Robinson for a conditional first round pick each (their likely value) allows the Knicks to keep assets ready and available for the next star on the market. The picks this draft can be used to replace them as depth. Drafting someone like center Isaiah Jackson and a wing like Duarte or a PG like Jared Butler gives multiple NBA ready rookies at needed positions. The original 8 players I mentioned above are essentially 8 out of 9 or 10 rotation players next year.
Basically i'm saying if we don't sign that missing piece this summer or next, the cap space won't be there anyways, and we know most superstars don't make it to free agency. I'm guessing Rose with his connections has his eyes on Embiid or Booker in the future. He probably already has a good feel about Beal or LaVine and if that is realistic. If we deal Robinson and Toppin for 1st round picks now, we would have all of our own picks plus 3 additional 1st round picks (2 from dealing those 2 guys, plus 2023 dallas pick) as available for a future star. It would put us above anyone but OKC and New Orleans, 2 teams that stars probably won't want anyways. If we assume any available star puts the typically teams on their wish lists, the Knicks would likely have the best asset pool for a trade.
So i'm saying use the cap space this summer to resign everyone and add talent if possible, and move the players who haven't been a big part of the success for future picks so we have them ready when the opportunity presents itself. Does that seem practical?
The Toppin move doesn't make a lot of sense. You have a lot of control left and you haven't locked up Randle yet. Your depth chart isn't 3 or 4 deep at PF, you are still filling the 10 man rotation. So, I'm not exactly trading him for picks without a deeper plan.
Robinson is interesting. Still have an option on him. You can balance roster depth with more picks. I am back and forth between locking up both Noel and Robinson long term to anchor that defense vs going after a bigger name for that position. I wouldn't force anything, but I am not saying "no" either. I think those two might be the best 1/2 defensive 5 combo out there. Will be interesting to see what happens when we add a pg that can pass. The question I need Robinson to answer is if he will become more than Noel is.
You're right we haven't locked up Randle, but at this point is there any chance we don't? I'm a huge fan of Toppin's skill set, but unless Thibs suddenly decides he can play center (which is unlikely) we are basically looking at a player who plays 12 mpg behind Randle for the foreseeable future. Toppin's value decreases by the minute with that plan. He's in the first year of his contract and there's places he can start or play significant minutes. A team like OKC in the early rebuilding stages may offer a draft pick for him. With this current team, we would be better off backing up Randle with a player who can play multiple positions, maybe a 3/4 like McDermott or Otto Porter (both UFAs), or even Knox if he shows a little more to his game.
nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No way your getting a 1st round pick for Mitch, He's a one dimensional center that's not a great rebounder, can't shoot from the perimeter unless its an empty gym at the YMCA, under 50% FT shooter, and the knicks have a winning record without him.
We are playing in a small ball era, so centers are not Premium positions.
You know what you have in Mitch and OBI, trading them for picks is a backwards move, if your going to trade them at least know what your getting in return
SupremeCommander wrote:I would trade Mitch for a first... his game is going to feel so much more hollow when he’s making $18 million a yearSimilarly, I would keep Obi over getting a pick (unless for someone we love). I just don’t see getting any better value at backup PF than Toppin. I’m not against trading him for a wing that is young and on the up and up though
I don't believe we have to trade Toppin, i just don't see a realistic plan that brings out the best of his abilities as Randle's backup.
knicks1248 wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No way your getting a 1st round pick for Mitch, He's a one dimensional center that's not a great rebounder, can't shoot from the perimeter unless its an empty gym at the YMCA, under 50% FT shooter, and the knicks have a winning record without him.
We are playing in a small ball era, so centers are not Premium positions.
You know what you have in Mitch and OBI, trading them for picks is a backwards move, if your going to trade them at least know what your getting in return
Jarrett Allen was just traded for a first round pick. You don't think it's comparable?
knicks1248 wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No way your getting a 1st round pick for Mitch, He's a one dimensional center that's not a great rebounder, can't shoot from the perimeter unless its an empty gym at the YMCA, under 50% FT shooter, and the knicks have a winning record without him.
We are playing in a small ball era, so centers are not Premium positions.
You know what you have in Mitch and OBI, trading them for picks is a backwards move, if your going to trade them at least know what your getting in return
Either he's worth at LEAST a first round pick, or we should be able to resign him cheaply. You can't have it both ways. If we can resign him cheaply, I keep him.
I havent heard anyone in this thread mention Mitch's improvement this season. His avoiding foul trouble, while making plays.
Ive been singing Noel's praises since he got here. But this willingness to trade Mitch feels a lot like going for the next shiny object. A legit effort should be made to retain both Mitch amd Noel. Gives us the best chance of beating superteams.
I would put a priority signing Mitch over Bullock and Burks. As well as they've played lately. Thats where the cap room to add a star should come from, if all that cap space we already have, still wasnt enough. Dont believe you can oversell the value of two elite rim defenders on the squad. If its doable.
As for Obi, the kid is starting to look like he's figuring things out, and some of you want to trade him? Sorry, this all feels very Dolanesque. Bet the star most of you want is old, lol.
nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
I’d do that.
Knixkik wrote:this guy thought playing Trey Burke would bring us 50 wins a few years back. Mitch will 100% get you a first rounder. Elite rim protection is a huge commodity and everyone who follows the league knows this. Its an analytic league and the impact Mitch has on the game passes both the eye test and the #s test (unless you cant read #s and you eyes are broke like 1248)knicks1248 wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No way your getting a 1st round pick for Mitch, He's a one dimensional center that's not a great rebounder, can't shoot from the perimeter unless its an empty gym at the YMCA, under 50% FT shooter, and the knicks have a winning record without him.
We are playing in a small ball era, so centers are not Premium positions.
You know what you have in Mitch and OBI, trading them for picks is a backwards move, if your going to trade them at least know what your getting in return
Jarrett Allen was just traded for a first round pick. You don't think it's comparable?
The only question is how you use Mitch in a trade. I cant wait to see what the FO has in the burner and how this offseason plays out. This is our only window with cap space so I expect us to use it procure a player. My choices would be Conley or Schroder and hopefully we resign Noel. I am good with paying them both so long as its not a gross overpay. I dont think Leon is going to overpay anyone
nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No team picking in the top 3 is trading their pick for 1 year of Mitchell Robinson and two picks in the high teens-low 20s.
For the exact same reason you wouldn't trade a top 3 pick for 1 year of Mitchell Robinson and two picks in the high teens-low 20s.
It would be nice to resign both Noel and Mitch but I don't think that's realistic with all the other guys we need to bring back. Burks, Bullock and Co. came here on short deals to showcase themselves and get a payday. Noel too
2. Sign a point guard 20m or less. The least the better 😅
3. Consider trading Mitch depending on how much he asks for this off-season next year in his option year.
4. As far as a backup 4 offensively Toppin will be fine going forward.
A lot will come down to how much Noel burks and bullock want and would they consider a one year deal just for the opportunity to stay in a familiar team environment and try to win a championship toghethor.
If not these guys have to be replaced next year of you want a chance to sign another all star in 2023
A big keyto our future is really getting a solid pg (not exactly a star but solid) for 20m or less. The cheaper we can get a guy the more money t sign and extend guys
Panos wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No way your getting a 1st round pick for Mitch, He's a one dimensional center that's not a great rebounder, can't shoot from the perimeter unless its an empty gym at the YMCA, under 50% FT shooter, and the knicks have a winning record without him.
We are playing in a small ball era, so centers are not Premium positions.
You know what you have in Mitch and OBI, trading them for picks is a backwards move, if your going to trade them at least know what your getting in return
Either he's worth at LEAST a first round pick, or we should be able to resign him cheaply. You can't have it both ways. If we can resign him cheaply, I keep him.
I can buy that. He's either worth a first or can be resigned for below market value hopefully.
Knickoftime wrote:nyvector16 wrote:Robinson alone is worth a 1st round pick...What I would do is trade our 1st this year, Dallas 1st this year and Robinson to get into the top3 in this this year's draft.
No team picking in the top 3 is trading their pick for 1 year of Mitchell Robinson and two picks in the high teens-low 20s.
For the exact same reason you wouldn't trade a top 3 pick for 1 year of Mitchell Robinson and two picks in the high teens-low 20s.
Yeah it’s just not feasible unfortunately. Top three will be cade / Suggs / Mobley. Can’t see those being given up for that?!!
I still feel acquisitions are ahead this off season ( via FA & ST ), but that means several players simply cannot be resigned. I just hope that we do not mortgage the home and go against our “ big 15 “ team ethos.
xblvdels3 wrote:Mitch is definitely worth a number 1.... he would be 10-30th pick in the last 2 years If scouts knew what he could provide. Only 23 and the league knows what he can and cannot do so far.
Knicks have proven they can win with Noel, Gibson, and Pelle as the center options. Noel has flourished to a DPOY candidate in the right circumstances. He's still very young as well. I say draft a center with one of the first rounders (Isaiah Jackson being the top option as a Kentucky guy that is a great athlete/defender) and move Robinson for a first rounder. Noel, Gibson, Jackson, and Pelle would be more than enough at center and be cheap too.