Knicks · Sell me on RFA Lonzo Ball over these 2 UFAs (page 4)

SupremeCommander wrote:I think 48 minutes of Rose + Lowry/Conley is perfect

Definitely an upgrade.

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

The cap space will disappear anyway when we reup Randle and Barrett. The goal should be to get good players in place before that happens and use bird rights to keep our players. Standing pat is not really an option. They need to be aggresive

Jmpasq wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

The cap space will disappear anyway when we reup Randle and Barrett. The goal should be to get good players in place before that happens and use bird rights to keep our players. Standing pat is not really an option. They need to be aggresive

This is my logic also. Use it or lose it.

Lowry on a 1 or 2 year deal I’d strongly consider

Jmpasq wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

The cap space will disappear anyway when we reup Randle and Barrett. The goal should be to get good players in place before that happens and use bird rights to keep our players. Standing pat is not really an option. They need to be aggresive

Definitely. We have 1 more year of cap space before we lock up Randle to a Supermax

Ball is young and still has some upside. He plays good d, runs the offense well and is an improved shooter. Also, for what it's worth, he's 3rd among point guards on ESPN's Real +/- listing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/1

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

Welcome back! I don’t think Lonzo is going to command a max. That’s rather insane given how disproportionate that is to his production and future projection not to mention most reports have him at 18-22m though it’s tough to gauge the credibility. Amassing assets from taking on a bad contract is a smart move for teams that suck. I feel like we need to really address our lack of playmaking and scoring if we want to see improvement. Taking on bad contracts does give us more assets to pursue another piece but it also limits our flexibility as well so we are just better off making a smart gamble on a player

TPercy wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

Welcome back! I don’t think Lonzo is going to command a max. That’s rather insane given how disproportionate that is to his production and future projection not to mention most reports have him at 18-22m though it’s tough to gauge the credibility. Amassing assets from taking on a bad contract is a smart move for teams that suck. I feel like we need to really address our lack of playmaking and scoring if we want to see improvement. Taking on bad contracts does give us more assets to pursue another piece but it also limits our flexibility as well so we are just better off making a smart gamble on a player

Also have to factor in interest from other teams. All he needs is one team willing to give him an outrageous contact offer. And we've seen that happen before.

Welpee wrote:

TPercy wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

Welcome back! I don’t think Lonzo is going to command a max. That’s rather insane given how disproportionate that is to his production and future projection not to mention most reports have him at 18-22m though it’s tough to gauge the credibility. Amassing assets from taking on a bad contract is a smart move for teams that suck. I feel like we need to really address our lack of playmaking and scoring if we want to see improvement. Taking on bad contracts does give us more assets to pursue another piece but it also limits our flexibility as well so we are just better off making a smart gamble on a player

Also have to factor in interest from other teams. All he needs is one team willing to give him an outrageous contact offer. And we've seen that happen before.

Like who? very few teams have that kind of space and the ones that do wont be that desperate

SupremeCommander wrote:I think 48 minutes of Rose + Lowry/Conley is perfect

Spencer Dinwiddie.

I recognize he's coming off of injury, but there's a strong chance he'll opt out of his player option. The injury will make signing him easier. He won't have to move very far and honestly he's a good player, though dependent on cost/years/AAV/etc are the major considerations.

TripleThreat wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think 48 minutes of Rose + Lowry/Conley is perfect

Spencer Dinwiddie.

I recognize he's coming off of injury, but there's a strong chance he'll opt out of his player option. The injury will make signing him easier. He won't have to move very far and honestly he's a good player, though dependent on cost/years/AAV/etc are the major considerations.

I've thought about Dinwiddie. The downside is he's coming off injury and he's never been the attacking type Thibs likes. Also, this FA class sucks and I think there will be a slight bidding war. How much would you offer him?

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:Cameron Payne is not good at basketball.... If Elfrid Payton was a white dude his name would be TJ McConnell

We have $70mm in cap space and we are talking about Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell? Cmon man... its only Wednesday

Payne is having a very good year (superior in every metric possible than Ball) on a VERY good team.

But yeah, fans of the team who are getting huge contributions from Randle and Noel and Rose and Burks and Bullocks and we're perceived to be a 20 win team should go off superficial impressions and reputation.

What a good idea...

Payne... one good year in the league and he's surrounded by star players. McConnell is literally allergic to any shot more that 15 feet. How much you wanna pay these guys?

And I dont like Ball either, especially at the money being mentioned. You are talking MLE players. I want to sign a impact player. Not the 8th guy in my rotation

The subject of this thread is BALL vs those guys. It is a conditional question.

And if they're MLE players, then they don't impact your cap space for the impact player, and can improve the Knicks.

So ... yeah, fishmike.

Yeah.

I would sign Lauletta over those two scrubs. Allegedly, he is a much better passer and can come quite cheap right now. But I regress.

In what dark deep corner of fan forums are we suggesting that any GM is contemplating this question of Lonzo vs TJ and Cam???
Not to mention that, as Fish mentions, we have CAP space up the ass but yet we are discussing CJ and Cam? Maybe leave this convo for the day before next year's season starts. Since those two will be available for an Amazon prime gift card. Btw, we just signed Luca.

The Lonzo question is a simple one that has NOTHING to do with CJ or Cam. Which is, does a GM believe that a former lotto pick, who is only 23 and has shown improvement can become a future All-Star? If they do, they will pay him $20 mil a year for 4 years. Which is what the Knicks did with Randle. Although Randle was a walking double-double. Many would have argued a couple of years ago (Shit some even last year) if Randle was worth over $20 Mil. I think there will be teams that will take that chance. Do I think the Knicks should be one of them? Maybe, but only if we have a team-friendly contract that would give us an out after 2 years. But I do not think Ball would do that. Think we should use a pick to find a possible future PG if Luca does not work out. Save the big money for a true difference-maker. Problem is, besides Leanord, who will be available?

TPercy wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TPercy wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Sell me on Ball over UFA's Cameron Payne and TJ McConnell...

The floor is your's...

The first thing Brock Aller is going to try to do is "rent" the Knicks wide open cap space.

What that means is before the Knicks dig deep into free agency and/or potential sign and trades, they are going to

1) Try to involve themselves as the third or fourth team in a large trade, as a cap space facilitator, trying to take in an undesirable contract for draft picks/young assets

And/Or

2) Absorb a non desirable contract who might be useful to the Knicks in some way plus the bonus of taking in draft pick(s) and/or young assets to lift that contract off the hands of another team ( likely a team in a cap crunch situation)

Aller is going to make a list of useful/desirable players and run metrics on their actual market value. If the asking price exceeds the market value, Aller will tell Rose to keep moving past that player. Whether Rose listens is another matter.

What will Ball and/or Payne and/or McConnell cost? In possible trade compensation, total years, AAV and total cap hit?

No one needs to sell you on Payne/Connell over Ball, YOU NEED TO SELL BROCK ALLER ON WHY ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN "RENTING" SAID CAP SPACE.

Ball will want the max. Do I think he's worth the max? No. Do I believe Aller assesses Ball as worth the max? No. Will Leon Rose see Ball as worth the max? Hard to say. The role of GM has to factor into issues that extend beyond market value ( i.e. overall valuation of the franchises, TV deals, sponsorships, agent relationships, etc, etc)

The Knicks best position is to wait. Let teams approach them as the third or fourth team in a large trade or watch other teams spend their money first in FA and scour the 3rd to 5th Tier of FA for value signings. Also they have four picks. Draft the next McConnell or Ball instead.

Nearly all players are useful at a certain cost/price point. Noah would have been a value if he signed for 2 years/8 million with the 2nd year as a team option instead of that idiotic four year massive deal.

Some of you are in a rush to spend that cap space. Brock Aller is not. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't be. No one here should be. Part of being aggressive in resource management is learning to embrace the lulls and dry moments between the frenetic kill shots.

Welcome back! I don’t think Lonzo is going to command a max. That’s rather insane given how disproportionate that is to his production and future projection not to mention most reports have him at 18-22m though it’s tough to gauge the credibility. Amassing assets from taking on a bad contract is a smart move for teams that suck. I feel like we need to really address our lack of playmaking and scoring if we want to see improvement. Taking on bad contracts does give us more assets to pursue another piece but it also limits our flexibility as well so we are just better off making a smart gamble on a player

Also have to factor in interest from other teams. All he needs is one team willing to give him an outrageous contact offer. And we've seen that happen before.

Like who? very few teams have that kind of space and the ones that do wont be that desperate

This is from a couple of months ago but there are some options: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2926... (I'm not a big Bleacher Report guy so can vouch for it's accuracy).

Like I said, it only takes one team.