Knicks · Outscored by center position 36-15 (page 1)

Against teams with offensive centers we lose Miami Denver philly etc..

We can only afford a top tier wing in 2023.

Or we’re you thinking we have a team with drummond rj Julius iq and spit up shooters to challenge for a championship.

Big decisions will be made soon

Cap 112m

Are we extending Mitch?

Are we extending Randle?

This leaves us with 25m we can spend this off-season if you plan on bringing back rose etc

Choice A roll with Basicaly the same team plus Luca next year

Choice B exercise robinsons option extend Randle sign a medium tier player who still won’t make us better than the top 6 in the league

If we really want to contend we need to be very creative this off season and sign cheap talent (Luca)

Or are we drafting a talented scoring rookie center ? Mid 20s can’t remember his name at the moment.

The non casuals know we need a big man who can score and a all star wing. I don’t think we can have both unless we get creative

BRIGGS wrote:Against teams with offensive centers we lose Miami Denver philly etc..

We use C as a defensive position. Last game, we shot 11 for 32 while Phoenix shot 18/42 from 3. Those 7 more 3 are pretty much directly correlated to loss differential.

If I’m not really looking to mess with our C position. The Knicks are a bit less efficient on shot selection than top teams and lately seem to be lagging down the stretch where that used to be a strength. That may be a little bit of depth off the bench.

It’s easy to say “raise your eFG and you will win more” but it’s more accurate than “score more points and you will win.

I thought you guys figured this all out during the winning streak. Lose two games y’all see things differently?

While we have been playing better without him. Not having Mitch against bigger teams makes a big difference.

As does his ability to finish around the rim. He’s still so young, if he can get a little more polished and we can lock him in for a good number it’s a big win.

Remember, no one is better because of Payton. If you had a guy like TJ getting into the lane, you would see a lot of easy buckets for guys like Mitch and Obi. Rose has been awesome but he’s not looking for guys like a natural point guard.

Finding some 3D guys in the draft is the priority though.

Nalod wrote:I thought you guys figured this all out during the winning streak. Lose two games y’all see things differently?

Winning streak made me believe those team had a good foundation. Now we are talking about how to become elite. If you take our words at our strongest and not their weakest you might not come across as so condescending.

A huge part of us becoming elite is if Robinson and Toppin elevates their offensive game this summer

It’s crucial actually

MS wrote:While we have been playing better without him. Not having Mitch against bigger teams makes a big difference.

As does his ability to finish around the rim. He’s still so young, if he can get a little more polished and we can lock him in for a good number it’s a big win.

Remember, no one is better because of Payton. If you had a guy like TJ getting into the lane, you would see a lot of easy buckets for guys like Mitch and Obi. Rose has been awesome but he’s not looking for guys like a natural point guard.

Finding some 3D guys in the draft is the priority though.

I agree

Mitch and obi need to figure offense out this summer 😅

Mitch needs to work with a 90s center half the summer and shooting coach the other half lol

Toppin needs to hang out with Randle and his trainer lol

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:I thought you guys figured this all out during the winning streak. Lose two games y’all see things differently?

Winning streak made me believe those team had a good foundation. Now we are talking about how to become elite. If you take our words at our strongest and not their weakest you might not come across as so condescending.

Good point and well said. IT was a dick sounding statement. Apologies.
I suppose falling asleep in the chair last night in the third quarter and not waking until 3;30am got me grumpy! Dog stayed with me. He has become quite the knick fan this season.
To be elite is the true question. Briggs sometimes brings it as a knee jerk reaction.
My big three templete:

Draft one
Sign one
Trade for one.........

Time line is Barrett might be our draftee, Randle our “Signed” (Luck or not, it got done and we did not know it!), thus the trade. If yo have a “Big three” the question is do you target what you can get or by position. I’d say it more or less falls into place as you go along and players evolve. Randle and Zion both doing things they did not prior. Might we even be on the next wave were the Power forward becomes the PT???? Will other threads on others teams wish they could be like us? That should be a hoot!

We need an elite pg or an offensive center? RJ is becoming quite the Shooting guard despite his great penetration ability! Remember we all wished his outside shot would “come along”? This happend the last 6 weeks? Incredible.

Timeline?? Drafting either won’t give us a short window. But IM quite happy to think as long as we make progress. Obviously becoming elite means moving up from Payton and perhaps our Trio of defensive centers. But not all at once. Jokic was drafted in the second round. Giannis was talent 13th.
We can do this if we don’t lose our patience. Not fans, the FO and owner. I’m greedy.

Can you believe Rowan Barret Jr is shooting about 40 percent from 3!

Not only can he drive but he can shoot now 😅 lol 😂

Would love for him to get automatic with a 16-18 foot mid range game.

Your talking 25 ppg player

Look on the bright side guys we have a Batman and a certified Robyn

We just need a Superman now lol

Player improvement Needs this summer

1. Robinson to improve offensively 10 ppg every night min
2. Toppin needs to be a go to guy for that second unit. Create plays for him. Iq continue to do iq things and bomb away. rose drive and 13footers
3. RJ develop mid range game. Stop getting blocked so much lol
4. Pray that Luca is a big improvement than Payton
5. Noel practice catching basketball 🏀

xblvdels3 wrote:

MS wrote:While we have been playing better without him. Not having Mitch against bigger teams makes a big difference.

As does his ability to finish around the rim. He’s still so young, if he can get a little more polished and we can lock him in for a good number it’s a big win.

Remember, no one is better because of Payton. If you had a guy like TJ getting into the lane, you would see a lot of easy buckets for guys like Mitch and Obi. Rose has been awesome but he’s not looking for guys like a natural point guard.

Finding some 3D guys in the draft is the priority though.

I agree

Mitch and obi need to figure offense out this summer 😅

Mitch needs to work with a 90s center half the summer and shooting coach the other half lol

Toppin needs to hang out with Randle and his trainer lol

Mitch is learning to shoot 3s. Or so we are told. Not sure if that's better than having one post move and one counter. I really don't know at this point. Perhaps a real PG would in turn result in 5 more easy buckets per game from the center position.
Not sure how an NBA starting center can not have 1 move in the paint in his arsenal.

Wait a minute, is this another ********NAZ REID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!************ thread?! Let's hope we have a new thread about him every day!

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:I thought you guys figured this all out during the winning streak. Lose two games y’all see things differently?

Winning streak made me believe those team had a good foundation. Now we are talking about how to become elite. If you take our words at our strongest and not their weakest you might not come across as so condescending.

Good point and well said. IT was a dick sounding statement. Apologies.
I suppose falling asleep in the chair last night in the third quarter and not waking until 3;30am got me grumpy! Dog stayed with me. He has become quite the knick fan this season.
To be elite is the true question. Briggs sometimes brings it as a knee jerk reaction.
My big three templete:

Draft one
Sign one
Trade for one.........

Time line is Barrett might be our draftee, Randle our “Signed” (Luck or not, it got done and we did not know it!), thus the trade. If yo have a “Big three” the question is do you target what you can get or by position. I’d say it more or less falls into place as you go along and players evolve. Randle and Zion both doing things they did not prior. Might we even be on the next wave were the Power forward becomes the PT???? Will other threads on others teams wish they could be like us? That should be a hoot!

We need an elite pg or an offensive center? RJ is becoming quite the Shooting guard despite his great penetration ability! Remember we all wished his outside shot would “come along”? This happend the last 6 weeks? Incredible.

Timeline?? Drafting either won’t give us a short window. But IM quite happy to think as long as we make progress. Obviously becoming elite means moving up from Payton and perhaps our Trio of defensive centers. But not all at once. Jokic was drafted in the second round. Giannis was talent 13th.
We can do this if we don’t lose our patience. Not fans, the FO and owner. I’m greedy.

All good. At least you missed the 4th quarter collapse...

Unlike Briggs C request, I just want Robinson to keep getting better. We could run with him for a decade.

I want a 3&D PG and a 3&D SF. Then I want to improve the second unit. I don’t think this team needs superstars cause it’s built on team defense. Really believe Ball and Powell can really finalize that starting 5. Ball being a RFA might cost something, but I dunno. Would t give up much. People can disagree on ball, but I think a lengthy 3&D PG that can potentially shut down the scoring guard dog this league would be great. Same logic applies to SF.

I don’t have to improve in one offseason. I think those two being enough that if an elite player became available, we would be in the running with players and assets. That’s the trade you are discussing.

There are other paths to elite. But this offseason should finalize the “core” while maybe still searching for that extra bit to put us over the top. Felt like Denver and Phoenix just had a little more talent then we had. Need at least one more piece.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:I thought you guys figured this all out during the winning streak. Lose two games y’all see things differently?

Winning streak made me believe those team had a good foundation. Now we are talking about how to become elite. If you take our words at our strongest and not their weakest you might not come across as so condescending.

Good point and well said. IT was a dick sounding statement. Apologies.
I suppose falling asleep in the chair last night in the third quarter and not waking until 3;30am got me grumpy! Dog stayed with me. He has become quite the knick fan this season.
To be elite is the true question. Briggs sometimes brings it as a knee jerk reaction.
My big three templete:

Draft one
Sign one
Trade for one.........

Time line is Barrett might be our draftee, Randle our “Signed” (Luck or not, it got done and we did not know it!), thus the trade. If yo have a “Big three” the question is do you target what you can get or by position. I’d say it more or less falls into place as you go along and players evolve. Randle and Zion both doing things they did not prior. Might we even be on the next wave were the Power forward becomes the PT???? Will other threads on others teams wish they could be like us? That should be a hoot!

We need an elite pg or an offensive center? RJ is becoming quite the Shooting guard despite his great penetration ability! Remember we all wished his outside shot would “come along”? This happend the last 6 weeks? Incredible.

Timeline?? Drafting either won’t give us a short window. But IM quite happy to think as long as we make progress. Obviously becoming elite means moving up from Payton and perhaps our Trio of defensive centers. But not all at once. Jokic was drafted in the second round. Giannis was talent 13th.
We can do this if we don’t lose our patience. Not fans, the FO and owner. I’m greedy.

All good. At least you missed the 4th quarter collapse...

Unlike Briggs C request, I just want Robinson to keep getting better. We could run with him for a decade.

I want a 3&D PG and a 3&D SF. Then I want to improve the second unit. I don’t think this team needs superstars cause it’s built on team defense. Really believe Ball and Powell can really finalize that starting 5. Ball being a RFA might cost something, but I dunno. Would t give up much. People can disagree on ball, but I think a lengthy 3&D PG that can potentially shut down the scoring guard dog this league would be great. Same logic applies to SF.

I don’t have to improve in one offseason. I think those two being enough that if an elite player became available, we would be in the running with players and assets. That’s the trade you are discussing.

There are other paths to elite. But this offseason should finalize the “core” while maybe still searching for that extra bit to put us over the top. Felt like Denver and Phoenix just had a little more talent then we had. Need at least one more piece.

Robinson is scary
He’s gonna get hurt too much and he might get paid too well. I’d trade him

So I live in Dallas Texas and we have a 7’3’’ center who could be had for obi, Mitch and a couple of draft picks andtheir own draft pick. If I were Knicks I would do this deal.

Vmart wrote:So I live in Dallas Texas and we have a 7’3’’ center who could be had for obi, Mitch and a couple of draft picks andtheir own draft pick. If I were Knicks I would do this deal.

Is that the one that gets hurt even more, gets less rebounds and is already maxed out? With his brother and the notorious horse they rode in? Just making sure I understand correctly

Vmart wrote:So I live in Dallas Texas and we have a 7’3’’ center who could be had for obi, Mitch and a couple of draft picks andtheir own draft pick. If I were Knicks I would do this deal.

Which makes me glad you're the Mavericks and not the Knicks.

xblvdels3 wrote:<snip>
Player improvement Needs this summer

1. Robinson to improve offensively 10 ppg every night min
2. Toppin needs to be a go to guy for that second unit. Create plays for him. Iq continue to do iq things and bomb away. rose drive and 13footers
3. RJ develop mid range game. Stop getting blocked so much lol
4. Pray that Luca is a big improvement than Payton
5. Noel practice catching basketball 🏀

Robinson: Master setting picks. You're bigger, longer, more athletic, beefier than Noel/Gibson - Basically every possible physical advantage. No reason why they should be better at it. Different angles, different directions. And work on that little 10ft jumper.
Toppin: same as above. :) He also needs to figure out leverage - needs to get stronger/get lower.
IQ: Run plays as the PG. Study the PG game. Practice finishing at the rim rather than just using floaters all the time. Get that FG% over 40%
RJ: He already has a plan - seems like it'll be focused on dribbling into his 3pt shot and finishing.
Knox: needs to get his game back. He should be able to play like a poor man's Reggie Bullock, right?
Noel: Interesting point on catching. I was curious if Ewing worked on this. I've been working with my son on "baseball" catching skills - receiving the hard ball with soft hands rather than going out and getting it. He's already playing at an elite level of basketball - I'm not sure how much this could improve at this point.
Frank: His workout videos are already so epic - it looks like he already has all of the base skills. If the Olympics happen, maybe he'll get more experience running the PG spot.

technomaster wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:<snip>
Player improvement Needs this summer

1. Robinson to improve offensively 10 ppg every night min
2. Toppin needs to be a go to guy for that second unit. Create plays for him. Iq continue to do iq things and bomb away. rose drive and 13footers
3. RJ develop mid range game. Stop getting blocked so much lol
4. Pray that Luca is a big improvement than Payton
5. Noel practice catching basketball 🏀

Robinson: Master setting picks. You're bigger, longer, more athletic, beefier than Noel/Gibson - Basically every possible physical advantage. No reason why they should be better at it. Different angles, different directions. And work on that little 10ft jumper.
Toppin: same as above. :) He also needs to figure out leverage - needs to get stronger/get lower.
IQ: Run plays as the PG. Study the PG game. Practice finishing at the rim rather than just using floaters all the time. Get that FG% over 40%
RJ: He already has a plan - seems like it'll be focused on dribbling into his 3pt shot and finishing.
Knox: needs to get his game back. He should be able to play like a poor man's Reggie Bullock, right?
Noel: Interesting point on catching. I was curious if Ewing worked on this. I've been working with my son on "baseball" catching skills - receiving the hard ball with soft hands rather than going out and getting it. He's already playing at an elite level of basketball - I'm not sure how much this could improve at this point.
Frank: His workout videos are already so epic - it looks like he already has all of the base skills. If the Olympics happen, maybe he'll get more experience running the PG spot.

Thanks. My take was just the simplistic version. I didn’t want to get to deep.