First off question 1 is super hard. Both have great value. I’m gonna take the easy way out and say it’s a tie.
I’m back on the frank train myself— I don’t know if he will ultimately stay a Knick but for the first time in two years I see that he can be a valuable nba player
Never left the Train. Not sure it really goes anywhere but cost me nothing to ride..........
BUll or Burk? Like a house or a job one can always wish for a greener pasture but the reality is how to upgrade. That could be via trade, FA or draft. Why answer it now anyway? Two more games then a playoff series.
Both stepped up thru the season. Perhaps there are others that will also if given a chance. Maybe we draft Kispert and he can do that Alec Burkes thing? Or JJ Reddick? Or Obi and IQ step up and we don’t need. Microwave like Burkes.
Bullock if he don’t start maybe he is the one to go? They do different things. Burkes can create better then BUllock for the role he fills.
If frank can make 3s he can replace Bullock. A draftee can replace Burks. I'd lean towards signing Bullock back
The only problem with Alex Burk is getting his name right.
We gotta bring back both of these guys. I love how deep this team is. I also think that Alec is one of the smartest players around.
Frank will be cheap, so heck throw him in too!
Like all three. Frank obviously has the less impressive season by far, but my favorite players have never been the stars. See Ken "the Animal" Bannister.
VDesai wrote:If frank can make 3s he can replace Bullock. A draftee can replace Burks. I'd lean towards signing Bullock back
Vdesai— this year is very important for the next several years to get 2 of 3 picks right. I’m not sure any can replace burks next year— especially with thibs. But a good draft and finding a superior player to Payton is important
Loved both Bullock and Burk signings when they happened. Disappointed to hear about Bullocks injury immediately after signing and Burks slow start this season but happy to see them both bounce back.
Would love the Knicks to be able to bring them both back but I suspect they may only be able to bring one of them. Not sure who I would prefer. I think if the Knicks are able to bring in a PG with a reliable outside shot, Burks could be expendable.
As for Frank.....For the league min, he can stick around. At the rate that he is progressing, I don't think he will be in the league for very long.
BRIGGS wrote:
I’m back on the frank train myself— I don’t know if he will ultimately stay a Knick but for the first time in two years I see that he can be a valuable nba player
Frank N has a 7 million dollar qualifying offer this off season. Does anyone think he's worth 7 million OR some kind of extension? I don't. It's obvious he needed to change his game to help this team but just didn't do it. He has flashes to show he can do it, but it appears he just doesn't give a shit. If what you do is not working, you have to humble yourself enough to find something you can add to the team that will help them win.
Alonzo Trier played like a complete and total asshole. But it was loud and in your face. It didn't help the team actually win ( he put up numbers, but hollow ones when considering wins and losses)
Frank N also plays like a complete and total asshole. But it's much much quieter.
I see zero urgency from Frank N. That's not acceptable. If you fail, fail hard. If you are going to get cut, then lay it all out on the floor every single night so you have no regrets and you can face your teammates every single day.
If someone just isn't a good player, then they are not. OK, that happens. However if you could do more but you don't give a shit or won't see the reality of what you are on the court versus what you think you are, then that's entirely selfish.
TripleThreat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:
I’m back on the frank train myself— I don’t know if he will ultimately stay a Knick but for the first time in two years I see that he can be a valuable nba player
Frank N has a 7 million dollar qualifying offer this off season. Does anyone think he's worth 7 million OR some kind of extension? I don't. It's obvious he needed to change his game to help this team but just didn't do it. He has flashes to show he can do it, but it appears he just doesn't give a shit. If what you do is not working, you have to humble yourself enough to find something you can add to the team that will help them win.
Alonzo Trier played like a complete and total asshole. But it was loud and in your face. It didn't help the team actually win ( he put up numbers, but hollow ones when considering wins and losses)
Frank N also plays like a complete and total asshole. But it's much much quieter.
I see zero urgency from Frank N. That's not acceptable. If you fail, fail hard. If you are going to get cut, then lay it all out on the floor every single night so you have no regrets and you can face your teammates every single day.
If someone just isn't a good player, then they are not. OK, that happens. However if you could do more but you don't give a shit or won't see the reality of what you are on the court versus what you think you are, then that's entirely selfish.
7 million for Frank is insane.
I like all three but there's no way I'm taking Frank over either of the other two.
I want to keep both Bullock and Burks. Both are so important. Frank I’ll keep for the minimum as he has roster value, but can’t justify anything beyond that.
Swishfm3 wrote:
As for Frank.....For the league min, he can stick around. At the rate that he is progressing, I don't think he will be in the league for very long.
For Frank N to qualify for the league minimum, and for the Knicks to clear his cap hold, they will have to renounce his rights.
A player without his full Bird Rights is a player who isn't very flexible on a long term contract against the cap sheet. Another team might be open to a sign and trade but let's get real here, why do that when they also can sign Frank N to the veteran's minimum, and let's be even more honest, that's about what he's going to be worth on the open market.
Full Bird Rights are not just valuable to the franchise for cap sheet reasons, they are also extremely valuable to the player. Look at how this impacts Randle. If he had his full Bird Rights with the Knicks today, he could argue for a max extension today. But he might have to sit out and play through that team option year first. Where he could get injured or face some heavy regression first.
One of the first things other teams will notice about Frank N is how he just shuffles and is lackadaisical off the ball. When you are off the ball, you still need to work hard. You could argue you need to work 3 times as hard. Working harder off the ball gives you cleaner looks, helps your shooting situations and shot selection and improves the floor spacing for the entire team. Watch Steph Curry his rookie year, Monta Ellis didn't give him shit. Froze him out a lot. But Curry always was fundamental and did his work off the ball, even if he knew he wouldn't get the ball. It's not just playing hard when things are going your way, it's learning to be disciplined enough to play hard when everything is working against you. That's what it means to be a professional.
You can't teach sweat equity. That has to come from the inside. That has to come from passion and a desire for greatness within.
Frank N needs to go. Maybe he will find success elsewhere. So long, Frenchy, and zero thanks for non of the fish.
Bullock is the better defender but Burks is better offensively
Whoever is willing to come back on a 2 year deal at reasonable money ($9-10 million per)
Nalod wrote:Never left the Train. Not sure it really goes anywhere but cost me nothing to ride..........BUll or Burk? Like a house or a job one can always wish for a greener pasture but the reality is how to upgrade. That could be via trade, FA or draft. Why answer it now anyway? Two more games then a playoff series.
Both stepped up thru the season. Perhaps there are others that will also if given a chance. Maybe we draft Kispert and he can do that Alec Burkes thing? Or JJ Reddick? Or Obi and IQ step up and we don’t need. Microwave like Burkes.
Bullock if he don’t start maybe he is the one to go? They do different things. Burkes can create better then BUllock for the role he fills.
I think Frank wants to stay here but the years of both the Perry and now Rose regime burying him on the bench while Elfrid Payton lays brick every night has gotten to him
Frank will be a Net next year
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Never left the Train. Not sure it really goes anywhere but cost me nothing to ride..........BUll or Burk? Like a house or a job one can always wish for a greener pasture but the reality is how to upgrade. That could be via trade, FA or draft. Why answer it now anyway? Two more games then a playoff series.
Both stepped up thru the season. Perhaps there are others that will also if given a chance. Maybe we draft Kispert and he can do that Alec Burkes thing? Or JJ Reddick? Or Obi and IQ step up and we don’t need. Microwave like Burkes.
Bullock if he don’t start maybe he is the one to go? They do different things. Burkes can create better then BUllock for the role he fills.
I think Frank wants to stay here but the years of both the Perry and now Rose regime burying him on the bench while Elfrid Payton lays brick every night has gotten to him
Frank will be a Net next year
Frank isn't a point guard. Payton isn't his competition. Noticed he looked really good(with braids) pairing next to Rose as a 3&D wing the other game. That's his game. Playing defense, knocking down 3s, extra pass.
Knicks will most likely look for a player on a rookie scale deal to slide into this slot that they can wait 2 yrs to develop. Frank will look for a place where he can get PT. I can see him going to Dallas. They have had ties to him dating back to the draft. He has had some good games vs them, fits very well with Doncic.
Frank in Thibs world is not a PG. IF thats his passion then he’ll follow it. As a glue guy that can defend move the ball and hit a jumper with good % is a valuable commodity. At 22 he still might not be a finished player.
An ass hole? Not sure I get that. Compared to rookie Steph Curry? I think if frank was all lackadaisical and did that shuffle Thibs would pull him and he’d be cut by now. He moving to the corner as instructed. He may instinctively uncomfortable moving away from the ball as his whole life we going toward it and passing without remorse. Now he is being instructed to shoot.
Time will tell. A guy running out of contract and space on the bench is not a good sign so him being released is not a suprise.
Nalod wrote:
Time will tell.
Time has TOLD
Frank N has had many years and multiple opportunities to take a starting job and make it his own. He didn't. No one gives you shit in the NBA and in this life. You want something? You go out and take it. You make it yours.
There were specific things he needed to do consistently to help this team win. He didn't do them. He's show, in flashes, he can do them. So it's not a question of skill, it's a question of heart and effort and humility.
Some of you guys make so many excuses for Frank N, it's like listening in on a marriage counseling session.
Well, it always depends on who's available out there, but I do like the way all three improved during the season and bought into Thibs approach.
Nalod wrote:Frank in Thibs world is not a PG. IF thats his passion then he’ll follow it. As a glue guy that can defend move the ball and hit a jumper with good % is a valuable commodity. At 22 he still might not be a finished player.
An ass hole? Not sure I get that. Compared to rookie Steph Curry? I think if frank was all lackadaisical and did that shuffle Thibs would pull him and he’d be cut by now. He moving to the corner as instructed. He may instinctively uncomfortable moving away from the ball as his whole life we going toward it and passing without remorse. Now he is being instructed to shoot.Time will tell. A guy running out of contract and space on the bench is not a good sign so him being released is not a suprise.
Frank in Thibs world doesn’t exist
We all saying the same thing. His stature is evident as noted. End of his contract and about end of the bench. I’m not in denial.
What I think and what I hope are not mutually the same. Knicks were much better this year than I thought, but they played great as I had hoped.
Frank plays a high end of defense. Dude played 10 seconds yesterday and comes up with a steal. It was funny as hell.
In Thibs world the kid got chances. All iM saying is I take no pleasure to predict what is all apparent.
Thibs does prioritize defense to say frank does not exist is not accurate. but offense matters. And yes if you read all my posts I admit to be in a fan and my hope is Frank does well. But its not what I expect to happen.
Maybe frank is like the cute girl who has yet to mature and the fat girls are envious because the guys know one day she will while they fattys know they are past their prime...........
