Knicks · Two questions. Who do u like better Burcks or Bullock and r u back on the frank train? (page 3)
TripleThreat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:
I’m back on the frank train myself— I don’t know if he will ultimately stay a Knick but for the first time in two years I see that he can be a valuable nba player
Frank N has a 7 million dollar qualifying offer this off season. Does anyone think he's worth 7 million OR some kind of extension? I don't. It's obvious he needed to change his game to help this team but just didn't do it. He has flashes to show he can do it, but it appears he just doesn't give a shit. If what you do is not working, you have to humble yourself enough to find something you can add to the team that will help them win.Alonzo Trier played like a complete and total asshole. But it was loud and in your face. It didn't help the team actually win ( he put up numbers, but hollow ones when considering wins and losses)
Frank N also plays like a complete and total asshole. But it's much much quieter.
I see zero urgency from Frank N. That's not acceptable. If you fail, fail hard. If you are going to get cut, then lay it all out on the floor every single night so you have no regrets and you can face your teammates every single day.
If someone just isn't a good player, then they are not. OK, that happens. However if you could do more but you don't give a shit or won't see the reality of what you are on the court versus what you think you are, then that's entirely selfish.
Frank has substantially improved his 3point % this season. The one thing that everyone and their mother was saying to be key to him finding a place in the league. He has done that. Look at Bullock. He doesn't penetrate at all. That's just not his game. Yet he is a starter and a has surely contributed to our success. We want to bring him back on a reasonable contract. Which is going to be around 9-10ish mil per year probably at the very least( and that's a discount, he could probably get 15 mil on the open market) So Frank at 7 mil in 2-3 years will likely give you same production if not more. At that point he would be a bargain!
ToddTT wrote:So did Burks’ asking price go up after yesterday?Although honestly, his performance was not a big surprise.
Possibly but he’s on the wrong side of 30 with a long injury history. Don’t get me wrong I want him back in a bad way but resigning him shouldn’t be too difficult
ramtour420 wrote:TripleThreat wrote:BRIGGS wrote:
I’m back on the frank train myself— I don’t know if he will ultimately stay a Knick but for the first time in two years I see that he can be a valuable nba player
Frank N has a 7 million dollar qualifying offer this off season. Does anyone think he's worth 7 million OR some kind of extension? I don't. It's obvious he needed to change his game to help this team but just didn't do it. He has flashes to show he can do it, but it appears he just doesn't give a shit. If what you do is not working, you have to humble yourself enough to find something you can add to the team that will help them win.Alonzo Trier played like a complete and total asshole. But it was loud and in your face. It didn't help the team actually win ( he put up numbers, but hollow ones when considering wins and losses)
Frank N also plays like a complete and total asshole. But it's much much quieter.
I see zero urgency from Frank N. That's not acceptable. If you fail, fail hard. If you are going to get cut, then lay it all out on the floor every single night so you have no regrets and you can face your teammates every single day.
If someone just isn't a good player, then they are not. OK, that happens. However if you could do more but you don't give a shit or won't see the reality of what you are on the court versus what you think you are, then that's entirely selfish.
Frank has substantially improved his 3point % this season. The one thing that everyone and their mother was saying to be key to him finding a place in the league. He has done that. Look at Bullock. He doesn't penetrate at all. That's just not his game. Yet he is a starter and a has surely contributed to our success. We want to bring him back on a reasonable contract. Which is going to be around 9-10ish mil per year probably at the very least( and that's a discount, he could probably get 15 mil on the open market) So Frank at 7 mil in 2-3 years will likely give you same production if not more. At that point he would be a bargain!
Only reason resigning Frank on a one year deal makes sense is he’d be cheap and can play Bullock’s role while we spend the money on resigning Burks
Philc1 wrote:
Only reason resigning Frank on a one year deal makes sense is he’d be cheap and can play Bullock’s role while we spend the money on resigning Burks
The Knicks will renounce Frank N's full Bird Rights. That's the ONLY way he can come back cheaply.
In this instance, why would he resign back withe Knicks unless the entire league would not give him a 2nd chance to prove himself useful as a veteran minimum contract player? The league literally pays a portion of VME player's salary so you get an experienced player without the full cash hit. He would also be considered a young "journeyman" at this stage of his career. There is no reason many other teams won't want to sign him for the minimum and there's no reason to come back to the Knicks. He hasn't produced for them and Thibs doesn't trust him and won't play him.
There's very little reason the Knicks would want him back unless they exhausted all other options first ( i.e. using all their picks, sifting through UDFA and digging through Tier 5 back end free agents) which could mean Frank N would have to a better option than close to 300 other potential back of the roster options, and only after those players were heavily evaluated first. And for those thinking the Knicks can sign Frank N, hope he breaks out and trades him, that's not going to happen either.
On Frank N's side, he wants minutes on the floor ( or maybe he doesn't, maybe he's one of many NBA guys who likes the NBA lifestyle but not actually playing in the NBA) and his agent will push him to start the clock on his Bird Rights somewhere else as fast as possible.
There is no incentive in place on EITHER SIDE for Frank N to be a NY Knick next season. Unless it's mutual completely fucked up desperation. Many of you have seen this in real life - Two people who struck out in the mating/dating arena and are tired of crying alone at night with their cats and video games. So they bite down on their pride and marry each other. They believe two different types of aged Cheeto dust mixing together in a dramatic yet visceral last chance at having jilted resentful company during major holidays will solve the miles long sheet of woe that is their life.
How about this? How about the Knicks not try to marry the chick hanging out at the bar entrance at 3AM and tilts her head all the time so you don't see her triple chin and fucked up teeth? Are you British? No. Then why are your teeth so fucked up? No answer. If she doesn't talk like she fell out of the BBC and her teeth look like she's been gnawing at industrial grade rebar all her life, odds are high she's been soaking in Cheeto dust for a very very very long time.
Frank N is the cousin you love that needs to immediately move the fuck out of your house. You wish him well but honestly if you only saw him on Thanksgiving, you'll be quietly grateful for the trade off. Those of you who persist in riding the Frank N train, maybe you just have a secret fetish for those who use leftover construction material as dental floss. I don't know. People get off on a wide range of things. I can't explain it. Then again, I can't explain why some people will pay good money to have people piss on them so they can blow their load either.
Frank N, you were a shitty house guest for four years. Now please move the fuck out of MSG stat.
TripleThreat wrote:Philc1 wrote:
Only reason resigning Frank on a one year deal makes sense is he’d be cheap and can play Bullock’s role while we spend the money on resigning Burks
The Knicks will renounce Frank N's full Bird Rights. That's the ONLY way he can come back cheaply.In this instance, why would he resign back withe Knicks unless the entire league would not give him a 2nd chance to prove himself useful as a veteran minimum contract player? The league literally pays a portion of VME player's salary so you get an experienced player without the full cash hit. He would also be considered a young "journeyman" at this stage of his career. There is no reason many other teams won't want to sign him for the minimum and there's no reason to come back to the Knicks. He hasn't produced for them and Thibs doesn't trust him and won't play him.
There's very little reason the Knicks would want him back unless they exhausted all other options first ( i.e. using all their picks, sifting through UDFA and digging through Tier 5 back end free agents) which could mean Frank N would have to a better option than close to 300 other potential back of the roster options, and only after those players were heavily evaluated first. And for those thinking the Knicks can sign Frank N, hope he breaks out and trades him, that's not going to happen either.
On Frank N's side, he wants minutes on the floor ( or maybe he doesn't, maybe he's one of many NBA guys who likes the NBA lifestyle but not actually playing in the NBA) and his agent will push him to start the clock on his Bird Rights somewhere else as fast as possible.
There is no incentive in place on EITHER SIDE for Frank N to be a NY Knick next season. Unless it's mutual completely fucked up desperation. Many of you have seen this in real life - Two people who struck out in the mating/dating arena and are tired of crying alone at night with their cats and video games. So they bite down on their pride and marry each other. They believe two different types of aged Cheeto dust mixing together in a dramatic yet visceral last chance at having jilted resentful company during major holidays will solve the miles long sheet of woe that is their life.
How about this? How about the Knicks not try to marry the chick hanging out at the bar entrance at 3AM and tilts her head all the time so you don't see her triple chin and fucked up teeth? Are you British? No. Then why are your teeth so fucked up? No answer. If she doesn't talk like she fell out of the BBC and her teeth look like she's been gnawing at industrial grade rebar all her life, odds are high she's been soaking in Cheeto dust for a very very very long time.
Frank N is the cousin you love that needs to immediately move the fuck out of your house. You wish him well but honestly if you only saw him on Thanksgiving, you'll be quietly grateful for the trade off. Those of you who persist in riding the Frank N train, maybe you just have a secret fetish for those who use leftover construction material as dental floss. I don't know. People get off on a wide range of things. I can't explain it. Then again, I can't explain why some people will pay good money to have people piss on them so they can blow their load either.
Frank N, you were a shitty house guest for four years. Now please move the fuck out of MSG stat.
The incentive is Frank can play the 3 and D role similar to Bullock at a fraction of the price
IQ is starting at the 2 next season with RJ moving to SF
Philc1 wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Philc1 wrote:
Only reason resigning Frank on a one year deal makes sense is he’d be cheap and can play Bullock’s role while we spend the money on resigning Burks
The Knicks will renounce Frank N's full Bird Rights. That's the ONLY way he can come back cheaply.In this instance, why would he resign back withe Knicks unless the entire league would not give him a 2nd chance to prove himself useful as a veteran minimum contract player? The league literally pays a portion of VME player's salary so you get an experienced player without the full cash hit. He would also be considered a young "journeyman" at this stage of his career. There is no reason many other teams won't want to sign him for the minimum and there's no reason to come back to the Knicks. He hasn't produced for them and Thibs doesn't trust him and won't play him.
There's very little reason the Knicks would want him back unless they exhausted all other options first ( i.e. using all their picks, sifting through UDFA and digging through Tier 5 back end free agents) which could mean Frank N would have to a better option than close to 300 other potential back of the roster options, and only after those players were heavily evaluated first. And for those thinking the Knicks can sign Frank N, hope he breaks out and trades him, that's not going to happen either.
On Frank N's side, he wants minutes on the floor ( or maybe he doesn't, maybe he's one of many NBA guys who likes the NBA lifestyle but not actually playing in the NBA) and his agent will push him to start the clock on his Bird Rights somewhere else as fast as possible.
There is no incentive in place on EITHER SIDE for Frank N to be a NY Knick next season. Unless it's mutual completely fucked up desperation. Many of you have seen this in real life - Two people who struck out in the mating/dating arena and are tired of crying alone at night with their cats and video games. So they bite down on their pride and marry each other. They believe two different types of aged Cheeto dust mixing together in a dramatic yet visceral last chance at having jilted resentful company during major holidays will solve the miles long sheet of woe that is their life.
How about this? How about the Knicks not try to marry the chick hanging out at the bar entrance at 3AM and tilts her head all the time so you don't see her triple chin and fucked up teeth? Are you British? No. Then why are your teeth so fucked up? No answer. If she doesn't talk like she fell out of the BBC and her teeth look like she's been gnawing at industrial grade rebar all her life, odds are high she's been soaking in Cheeto dust for a very very very long time.
Frank N is the cousin you love that needs to immediately move the fuck out of your house. You wish him well but honestly if you only saw him on Thanksgiving, you'll be quietly grateful for the trade off. Those of you who persist in riding the Frank N train, maybe you just have a secret fetish for those who use leftover construction material as dental floss. I don't know. People get off on a wide range of things. I can't explain it. Then again, I can't explain why some people will pay good money to have people piss on them so they can blow their load either.
Frank N, you were a shitty house guest for four years. Now please move the fuck out of MSG stat.
The incentive is Frank can play the 3 and D role similar to Bullock at a fraction of the price
IQ is starting at the 2 next season with RJ moving to SF
You read that entire misogynistic rant and thats all you come back to? This guy just destroyed Frank and half the population of England and thats all you got? Frank is cheap, Move RJ to the 3 and start IQ.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Philc1 wrote:
Only reason resigning Frank on a one year deal makes sense is he’d be cheap and can play Bullock’s role while we spend the money on resigning Burks
The Knicks will renounce Frank N's full Bird Rights. That's the ONLY way he can come back cheaply.In this instance, why would he resign back withe Knicks unless the entire league would not give him a 2nd chance to prove himself useful as a veteran minimum contract player? The league literally pays a portion of VME player's salary so you get an experienced player without the full cash hit. He would also be considered a young "journeyman" at this stage of his career. There is no reason many other teams won't want to sign him for the minimum and there's no reason to come back to the Knicks. He hasn't produced for them and Thibs doesn't trust him and won't play him.
There's very little reason the Knicks would want him back unless they exhausted all other options first ( i.e. using all their picks, sifting through UDFA and digging through Tier 5 back end free agents) which could mean Frank N would have to a better option than close to 300 other potential back of the roster options, and only after those players were heavily evaluated first. And for those thinking the Knicks can sign Frank N, hope he breaks out and trades him, that's not going to happen either.
On Frank N's side, he wants minutes on the floor ( or maybe he doesn't, maybe he's one of many NBA guys who likes the NBA lifestyle but not actually playing in the NBA) and his agent will push him to start the clock on his Bird Rights somewhere else as fast as possible.
There is no incentive in place on EITHER SIDE for Frank N to be a NY Knick next season. Unless it's mutual completely fucked up desperation. Many of you have seen this in real life - Two people who struck out in the mating/dating arena and are tired of crying alone at night with their cats and video games. So they bite down on their pride and marry each other. They believe two different types of aged Cheeto dust mixing together in a dramatic yet visceral last chance at having jilted resentful company during major holidays will solve the miles long sheet of woe that is their life.
How about this? How about the Knicks not try to marry the chick hanging out at the bar entrance at 3AM and tilts her head all the time so you don't see her triple chin and fucked up teeth? Are you British? No. Then why are your teeth so fucked up? No answer. If she doesn't talk like she fell out of the BBC and her teeth look like she's been gnawing at industrial grade rebar all her life, odds are high she's been soaking in Cheeto dust for a very very very long time.
Frank N is the cousin you love that needs to immediately move the fuck out of your house. You wish him well but honestly if you only saw him on Thanksgiving, you'll be quietly grateful for the trade off. Those of you who persist in riding the Frank N train, maybe you just have a secret fetish for those who use leftover construction material as dental floss. I don't know. People get off on a wide range of things. I can't explain it. Then again, I can't explain why some people will pay good money to have people piss on them so they can blow their load either.
Frank N, you were a shitty house guest for four years. Now please move the fuck out of MSG stat.
The incentive is Frank can play the 3 and D role similar to Bullock at a fraction of the price
IQ is starting at the 2 next season with RJ moving to SFYou read that entire misogynistic rant and thats all you come back to? This guy just destroyed Frank and half the population of England and thats all you got? Frank is cheap, Move RJ to the 3 and start IQ.
I don’t care about someone with keyboard diarrhea. I care about wins and losses and the product on the floor
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Philc1 wrote:
Only reason resigning Frank on a one year deal makes sense is he’d be cheap and can play Bullock’s role while we spend the money on resigning Burks
The Knicks will renounce Frank N's full Bird Rights. That's the ONLY way he can come back cheaply.In this instance, why would he resign back withe Knicks unless the entire league would not give him a 2nd chance to prove himself useful as a veteran minimum contract player? The league literally pays a portion of VME player's salary so you get an experienced player without the full cash hit. He would also be considered a young "journeyman" at this stage of his career. There is no reason many other teams won't want to sign him for the minimum and there's no reason to come back to the Knicks. He hasn't produced for them and Thibs doesn't trust him and won't play him.
There's very little reason the Knicks would want him back unless they exhausted all other options first ( i.e. using all their picks, sifting through UDFA and digging through Tier 5 back end free agents) which could mean Frank N would have to a better option than close to 300 other potential back of the roster options, and only after those players were heavily evaluated first. And for those thinking the Knicks can sign Frank N, hope he breaks out and trades him, that's not going to happen either.
On Frank N's side, he wants minutes on the floor ( or maybe he doesn't, maybe he's one of many NBA guys who likes the NBA lifestyle but not actually playing in the NBA) and his agent will push him to start the clock on his Bird Rights somewhere else as fast as possible.
There is no incentive in place on EITHER SIDE for Frank N to be a NY Knick next season. Unless it's mutual completely fucked up desperation. Many of you have seen this in real life - Two people who struck out in the mating/dating arena and are tired of crying alone at night with their cats and video games. So they bite down on their pride and marry each other. They believe two different types of aged Cheeto dust mixing together in a dramatic yet visceral last chance at having jilted resentful company during major holidays will solve the miles long sheet of woe that is their life.
How about this? How about the Knicks not try to marry the chick hanging out at the bar entrance at 3AM and tilts her head all the time so you don't see her triple chin and fucked up teeth? Are you British? No. Then why are your teeth so fucked up? No answer. If she doesn't talk like she fell out of the BBC and her teeth look like she's been gnawing at industrial grade rebar all her life, odds are high she's been soaking in Cheeto dust for a very very very long time.
Frank N is the cousin you love that needs to immediately move the fuck out of your house. You wish him well but honestly if you only saw him on Thanksgiving, you'll be quietly grateful for the trade off. Those of you who persist in riding the Frank N train, maybe you just have a secret fetish for those who use leftover construction material as dental floss. I don't know. People get off on a wide range of things. I can't explain it. Then again, I can't explain why some people will pay good money to have people piss on them so they can blow their load either.
Frank N, you were a shitty house guest for four years. Now please move the fuck out of MSG stat.
The incentive is Frank can play the 3 and D role similar to Bullock at a fraction of the price
IQ is starting at the 2 next season with RJ moving to SFYou read that entire misogynistic rant and thats all you come back to? This guy just destroyed Frank and half the population of England and thats all you got? Frank is cheap, Move RJ to the 3 and start IQ.
I don’t care about someone with keyboard diarrhea. I care about wins and losses and the product on the floor
Thats obvious.
VDesai wrote:Man one game its Burks who's invaluable and the next its Bullock. Gonna be hard to let one walk, but we gotta be careful.
Re-sign everyone! 
Draft a stud.
I don’t even care if we’re not elite. As long as this team competes I’ll root for them.
VDesai wrote:Man one game its Burks who's invaluable and the next its Bullock. Gonna be hard to let one walk, but we gotta be careful.
After watching these guys in the playoffs, i'm not sure I want either of them back.
Burks is basically a journey player who's been traded twice in 3 seasons
Bullock has been a non factor in every playoff game he's played in his career.
And the first thing people say is we need to upgrade the talent, so i really see no reason in bringing this 2 back for continuity purposes
Nalod wrote:Frank in Thibs world is not a PG. IF thats his passion then he’ll follow it. As a glue guy that can defend move the ball and hit a jumper with good % is a valuable commodity. At 22 he still might not be a finished player.
An ass hole? Not sure I get that. Compared to rookie Steph Curry? I think if frank was all lackadaisical and did that shuffle Thibs would pull him and he’d be cut by now. He moving to the corner as instructed. He may instinctively uncomfortable moving away from the ball as his whole life we going toward it and passing without remorse. Now he is being instructed to shoot.Time will tell. A guy running out of contract and space on the bench is not a good sign so him being released is not a suprise.
Thibs never put Frank & Quickly in a lineup to have offense/defense tandem of wings throughout the 72 game season .... Frank's young talent should've been receiving playing-time in 3 position this season.
Burks is a keeper, he could back-up both Payton & Barrett, plus have a scoring performance better than both, need to work on his defense in the offseason. Postseason performance gets a Grade C+
Bullock's 2-way performance is a keeper .. Postseason performance gets a Grade C+
knicks1248 wrote:VDesai wrote:Man one game its Burks who's invaluable and the next its Bullock. Gonna be hard to let one walk, but we gotta be careful.After watching these guys in the playoffs, i'm not sure I want either of them back.
Burks is basically a journey player who's been traded twice in 3 seasons
Bullock has been a non factor in every playoff game he's played in his career.
And the first thing people say is we need to upgrade the talent, so i really see no reason in bringing this 2 back for continuity purposes
I like Burks a lot more than Bullock but whether or not they come back is likely contingent on 1 year deals again. The policy should be maintaining cap flexibility as opposed to thinking that the majority of this core is going to do something special.
y2zipper wrote:knicks1248 wrote:VDesai wrote:Man one game its Burks who's invaluable and the next its Bullock. Gonna be hard to let one walk, but we gotta be careful.After watching these guys in the playoffs, i'm not sure I want either of them back.
Burks is basically a journey player who's been traded twice in 3 seasons
Bullock has been a non factor in every playoff game he's played in his career.
And the first thing people say is we need to upgrade the talent, so i really see no reason in bringing this 2 back for continuity purposes
I like Burks a lot more than Bullock but whether or not they come back is likely contingent on 1 year deals again. The policy should be maintaining cap flexibility as opposed to thinking that the majority of this core is going to do something special.
This. And to be honest I doubt either guy can do better on the open market than a 1 year $7-10 million deal
Burks can play SG and PG and can create for himself and others, Bullock can't. Burks has a game here and there where he will carry the team when the others can’t hit anything. Bullock is a wing and is a better defensive player who scores his catch & shot trice.
Bullock is OK for a 3&D wing when you have better players in all other positions in the starting five. Burks is ideal from the bench as a 6th or 7th player. But that is the position that Rose plays in our team. But the absurdity is of course that they are both better than the our starting PG. Burks had injury problems so he wasn’t even available all the time, but it surprises me a little that Thibs didn’t try more the lineup with him as a starter at PG in the regular season.
Either way, it’s a relatively successful season behind both of them and given their age, I think they’re both going to be looking for long-term contracts which I don’t believe the Knicks will give them. That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if they both leave NY and sign somewhere for a 4-year mid level. I honestly don’t believe our FO will give them multi-year contracts at this point.
xavier wrote:Which of the two is better depends mostly on the team they play for, or what that team needs, considering that they are very different players.Burks can play SG and PG and can create for himself and others, Bullock can't. Burks has a game here and there where he will carry the team when the others can’t hit anything. Bullock is a wing and is a better defensive player who scores his catch & shot trice.
Bullock is OK for a 3&D wing when you have better players in all other positions in the starting five. Burks is ideal from the bench as a 6th or 7th player. But that is the position that Rose plays in our team. But the absurdity is of course that they are both better than the our starting PG. Burks had injury problems so he wasn’t even available all the time, but it surprises me a little that Thibs didn’t try more the lineup with him as a starter at PG in the regular season.
Either way, it’s a relatively successful season behind both of them and given their age, I think they’re both going to be looking for long-term contracts which I don’t believe the Knicks will give them. That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if they both leave NY and sign somewhere for a 4-year mid level. I honestly don’t believe our FO will give them multi-year contracts at this point.
Agree with this post. However I only see 1 or 2 year deals (not sure any team will give either of these guys a 4 year contract even at MLE).
The hawks have a lot of talent but if they didn’t have young we could beat them. He is the “it” fact player.
Bullock biggest value is his vet experience. We could draft a player who can shoot 40 percent from 3 and play defense.( He can’t dribble ) lol
VDesai wrote:This train changes stations after every game - I'm back on don't pay for either unless they come on the same deals!
No way they signed one yr deals, not after the season they both had.
knicks1248 wrote:VDesai wrote:This train changes stations after every game - I'm back on don't pay for either unless they come on the same deals!No way they signed one yr deals, not after the season they both had.
No one is offering either guy more than a one year deal