Knicks · Useless... post Robinson New York or nowhere shirt end of game (page 1)
Hmm 🤔
Yes Mitch warm up to that 8-10m 😂
KnickDanger wrote:So how do I get the decoder ring?
Was wondering if it was just me...
martin wrote:There was a shot of Mitch on bench during game - saw it on the MSG feed - where Mitch was wearing the "NY or nowhere" shirt and Clyde mentioned he looked like he had been working out and it showed
That solves part of it!
If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
The hand was a contact injury.
his workout intensity is not known. Posting 3pters vs. YMCA players is not an indictment on him either.
The foot injury is a big deal based on the physiology of what happend and to which bone. We talking Yao Ming/Bill Walton foot problems or a likely one off.
This all matters for his salary or trade values going forward. We kicked ass without him so its not like he was missed.
The quick bounce is dependent on his hops, and you need healthy feet. That he does not have great fundamentals is not helpful. His offensive fundamentals are near non existent. That has yet to be seen and the reason for his many tweets promoting himself from my view.
I’m not hating on him but I don’t see the upside potential as vast as before. Noel’s a good template to see what he can be offensively. Incremental improvement is what we have seen and its encouraging. The foot injury comes at a bad time for him contract wise.
Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
The hand was a contact injury.
his workout intensity is not known. Posting 3pters vs. YMCA players is not an indictment on him either.
The foot injury is a big deal based on the physiology of what happend and to which bone. We talking Yao Ming/Bill Walton foot problems or a likely one off.
This all matters for his salary or trade values going forward. We kicked ass without him so its not like he was missed.
The quick bounce is dependent on his hops, and you need healthy feet. That he does not have great fundamentals is not helpful. His offensive fundamentals are near non existent. That has yet to be seen and the reason for his many tweets promoting himself from my view.
I’m not hating on him but I don’t see the upside potential as vast as before. Noel’s a good template to see what he can be offensively. Incremental improvement is what we have seen and its encouraging. The foot injury comes at a bad time for him contract wise.
Haven't seen an injury ever come at a good time contract wise. He has a $1.8mm option that the team really should pick up UNLESS they want to make him a RFA.
All of his skill sets are developing. This is why he was a 2nd round pick and not a first rounder. None of the rookies really advanced under Horny or Fizz. Time with this staff is a positive for any young player. He is still only 23. Years of control remaining is literally is only downside. Upside potential as a function of contract control is a depreciating asset. That said, simple fix is to sign a team friendly extension.
EwingsGlass wrote:Haven't seen an injury ever come at a good time contract wise. He has a $1.8mm option that the team really should pick up UNLESS they want to make him a RFA.All of his skill sets are developing. This is why he was a 2nd round pick and not a first rounder. None of the rookies really advanced under Horny or Fizz. Time with this staff is a positive for any young player. He is still only 23. Years of control remaining is literally is only downside. Upside potential as a function of contract control is a depreciating asset. That said, simple fix is to sign a team friendly extension.
I tend to taking the option and then immediately negotiating a 4-year contract that would start in the summer of 2022. I believe this would ultimately prove to be a lot more team friendly than waiting to negotiate a new contract. You explain to him that you took the option to maintain flexibility, but you give him security with a new contract. Something at the level of 4Y / $ 45 M. Considering that he will return after the injury, I believe he would agree to something like that.
The other option is not to take the option and let the market set the price given that he's RFA, but I am afraid that he might get an offer sheet that it would be much more inconvenient to match.
The third option is of course to take the option and offer him nothing until the summer of 2022, but given his character, I’m afraid the Knicks after that wouldn’t be an option for him in the summer of 2022.
EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
With that bounce he should be avg no less than 10/11 rebounds and have at least 1 Goto move on offense. If it took him 3 season to learn how to stop fouling, how long will it take to develop all the other aspects of that position.
Mitch has to get is offese together or he's limited to playing one position, you can't slide him to the PF, just like you can't slide OBI to the Center of SF position.
In today's NBA, more and more players can play 2 position.
knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
With that bounce he should be avg no less than 10/11 rebounds and have at least 1 Goto move on offense. If it took him 3 season to learn how to stop fouling, how long will it take to develop all the other aspects of that position.
Mitch has to get is offese together or he's limited to playing one position, you can't slide him to the PF, just like you can't slide OBI to the Center of SF position.
In today's NBA, more and more players can play 2 position.
1) Do you believe Randle/Barrett are both better at rebounding than Robinson/Noel based on stats? Randle is averaging 10 rebs a game cause he is a better rebounder than Noel or Robinson? Look at their rebounding splits. That is, check their offensive rebounding numbers vs the defensive rebounding numbers. If stats reflected pure skill, the splits should have a bit more even distribution. Robinson/Noel have much better offensive rebounding numbers than Randle/Barrett. Arguable that Randle/Barrett take and miss more shots. But, if you also consider their box out stats and you can see that the Knicks utilize team rebounding that prioritizes Randle/Barrett getting the rebounds off of the defensive sets. A bit easier on transition offense if a primary ball handler lands with the ball. Compare this with their box outs. Both Robinson/Noel are pretty damn high in box outs per min. Hard to bounce quickly when boxing out. Don't hold it against the man that he is doing his job instead of padding his stats. Don't discourage the behavior you want cause you want to see a 10 instead of a 6. I like his box outs per minute stats better than any other stat I see. That's team basketball.
2) Really haven't seen him prioritized in offensive sets. Not really worth speculating whether he has no offense where he and Noel aren't really asked to be anywhere except floating around the box.
3) You think its a negative that your 7 foot center plays center and not a secondary position? Is there another player you prefer at Center while Robinson is on the court? When all wings are 6'6 to 6'8 its easy to get them playing multiple positions. Wing is becoming its own position. But, come on man. You want your 7 foot center switching to PF on offense? Doesn't really make any sense.
EwingsGlass wrote:2) Really haven't seen him prioritized in offensive sets. Not really worth speculating whether he has no offense where he and Noel aren't really asked to be anywhere except floating around the box.
Do you really need to be prioritized in offensive sets to show something? Noel has at least attempted some baby jumpers, Mitch doesn't even think about it when he catches the ball. And maybe that's even by design from the coaching staff, and if it is, it's a sign he hasn't worked enough (or crossed that line where it should be at least functional'ish) on it to even try?
You can see the footwork that Taj has around the basket and can only hope to see Mitch add that
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:2) Really haven't seen him prioritized in offensive sets. Not really worth speculating whether he has no offense where he and Noel aren't really asked to be anywhere except floating around the box.Do you really need to be prioritized in offensive sets to show something? Noel has at least attempted some baby jumpers, Mitch doesn't even think about it when he catches the ball. And maybe that's even by design from the coaching staff, and if it is, it's a sign he hasn't worked enough (or crossed that line where it should be at least functional'ish) on it to even try?
You can see the footwork that Taj has around the basket and can only hope to see Mitch add that
No, isn't a sign that he hasn't worked enough.
What it is is fodder for confirmation bias.
And MAYBE it hasn't crossed a line. We don't really know that either.
But we have NO indication Robinson isn't an engaged, hard-worker other than the malpractice of message board psychologists.
We just saw Randle change his game in year 7.
Someone provided a link to an article about Cameron Payne making a leap in year 6.
It doesn't always happen linearly or in small, annual increments.
Whether it ever happens for Robinson or not (both are possible), it's no reason to question his character.
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:2) Really haven't seen him prioritized in offensive sets. Not really worth speculating whether he has no offense where he and Noel aren't really asked to be anywhere except floating around the box.Do you really need to be prioritized in offensive sets to show something? Noel has at least attempted some baby jumpers, Mitch doesn't even think about it when he catches the ball. And maybe that's even by design from the coaching staff, and if it is, it's a sign he hasn't worked enough (or crossed that line where it should be at least functional'ish) on it to even try?
You can see the footwork that Taj has around the basket and can only hope to see Mitch add that
"Prioritized" is a poor argument by me. I would actually just want them to run a few more PNRs for Robinson.
That said, I am morally opposed to those 'baby jumpers' from a eFG perspective. I don't value them the way you do. By arguing the 'Noel at least attempted baby jumpers', there is a preference towards less efficient shots like Noel and Gibson. See below.
Robinson
http://nbashotcharts.com/raw?id=63009032
Noel:
http://nbashotcharts.com/raw?id=10033913...
Gibson
http://nbashotcharts.com/raw?id=-5504699...
Shot charts for Robinson/Noel/Gibson.
PPS for each:
Robinson 1.33
Noel 1.22
Gibson 1.26
I much prefer the shot chart of Robinson to the other two. Maximizes PPS.
This analysis isn't entirely fair though. The failures of course are 1) to the extent MRob is consistently passing up open looks giving teammates less efficient shots and/or 2) his lack of variability allows the defense to "cheat" and pack the paint. In such cases you are right.
If you simply want him to develop a consistent 8-10 footer or a dribble hook to keep teams "honest" -- I can't argue that and admit if he isn't using it, maybe he needs to develop it more. I don't see this as an outright condemnation though to the extent that he is highly efficient and not taking what he knows to be bad shots for him.
knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
With that bounce he should be avg no less than 10/11 rebounds and have at least 1 Goto move on offense. If it took him 3 season to learn how to stop fouling, how long will it take to develop all the other aspects of that position.
Since he's signed for year 4 for $1.8m, we have another year to find out.
When Joe Judge got the Giants job last year one of his first public answers to a question from the press is (I'm paraphrasing) "don't tell me what a player can't do, tell me what he CAN do".
Robinson AS IS has valuable NBA skills and he doesn't need to be paid on a projected basis until next summer.
Right now and next season he'll be a very valuable bargain for the things he CAN do, and I trust Thibs to not only get them out of him but know how to use them wisely.
Wbat else is there?
Knickoftime wrote:knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
With that bounce he should be avg no less than 10/11 rebounds and have at least 1 Goto move on offense. If it took him 3 season to learn how to stop fouling, how long will it take to develop all the other aspects of that position.
Since he's signed for year 4 for $1.8m, we have another year to find out.
When Joe Judge got the Giants job last year one of his first public answers to a question from the press is (I'm paraphrasing) "don't tell me what a player can't do, tell me what he CAN do".
Robinson AS IS has valuable NBA skills and he doesn't need to be paid on a projected basis until next summer.
Right now and next season he'll be a very valuable bargain for the things he CAN do, and I trust Thibs to not only get them out of him but know how to use them wisely.
Wbat else is there?
You know Why Mitch is wearing that shirt, it's because he saw that he was so easy to replace because he had no place. The team scored more, played faster, and most of all, WON a lot MORE GAMES without him
Players that take 5 to 7 yrs to develop, they end up on different teams, and Randle is a perfect example of that.
Players that ball out from the start, get contract extensions.
The New Age center KAT, EMBIID, JOKIC, TURNER WOODS, BAM. VUCEVIC, Not the One dimensional Mitch, those guys are a dime a dozen.
Had Noel had a Full normal Training camp, he would have beat out mitch for the starting job.
i'll let Broc figure out his value, but he was a 2nd round pick for a reason.
knicks1248 wrote:Knickoftime wrote:knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Feel like Robinson catches too much flack on this board. When he didn’t have a broken bone, he was top 5 in blocks, top 5 in box outs and had made serious strides on controlling his fouls. If the problem is that he isn’t Kareem - well, that’s solvable. He can change his name too.If it’s a couple articles about him missing a plane - kid is still young. Could use guidance from a guy like Noel. If it’s that he skipped college to workout... well, we knew he would need more time to develop team basketball. We wouldn’t have him on our team if he didn’t.
Injuries? Broke his hand and his foot. Those aren’t exactly indicators of failing health.
I freaking love this guy and see So much upside. You can’t teach that quick bounce. No tearing this guy down. There is no reason why you can’t lock up the C position for the next 4+ years with Noel and Robinson. We don’t need a stretch 5 when you can have a guy in position to box out.
With that bounce he should be avg no less than 10/11 rebounds and have at least 1 Goto move on offense. If it took him 3 season to learn how to stop fouling, how long will it take to develop all the other aspects of that position.
Since he's signed for year 4 for $1.8m, we have another year to find out.
When Joe Judge got the Giants job last year one of his first public answers to a question from the press is (I'm paraphrasing) "don't tell me what a player can't do, tell me what he CAN do".
Robinson AS IS has valuable NBA skills and he doesn't need to be paid on a projected basis until next summer.
Right now and next season he'll be a very valuable bargain for the things he CAN do, and I trust Thibs to not only get them out of him but know how to use them wisely.
Wbat else is there?
You know Why Mitch is wearing that shirt, it's because he saw that he was so easy to replace because he had no place. The team scored more, played faster, and most of all, WON a lot MORE GAMES without him
Players that take 5 to 7 yrs to develop, they end up on different teams, and Randle is a perfect example of that.
Players that ball out from the start, get contract extensions.
The New Age center KAT, EMBIID, JOKIC, TURNER WOODS, BAM. VUCEVIC, Not the One dimensional Mitch, those guys are a dime a dozen.
Had Noel had a Full normal Training camp, he would have beat out mitch for the starting job.
i'll let Broc figure out his value, but he was a 2nd round pick for a reason.
Every player you named has a usage rate twice that of Robinson. Not every player can use the ball all the time. You are comparing apples and oranges based on players that are the centerpiece of heliocentric game models. Guys like Robinson that can produce without touches are valuable in a manner that doesn’t show up in the Pts/Rebs/Ast. Some might say that their low usage rate actually overstated certain stats (like offensive and defensive rating). Regardless, you are comparing him to a different kind of player and wondering why the stats don’t match up. It’s just wrong.