Knicks · Team building: Knicks salary for Summer 2021 and beyond (page 1)

martin @ 5/18/2021 6:24 PM
I definitely made a mistake in thinking the Knicks should go all in this summer, looks like the cap situation is not much different if the team holds for a year and I gotta guess they will - FA market just sucks. I am a buyer in the TT "use the cap space to facilitate" for the next year and see what happens. 2022 just feel like the sweet spot of Lots of cap space meets Free agents that will be worth it. 2023 summer gets clogged if Randle, RJ, Mitch meet some semblance of expectations.

And after thinking about the PG situation - re the Lonzo Ball thread with Payne and TJ McConnell as PG foils - I am now more on the side that the Knicks will sign a PG and I think TJ would be good value add even though he may not be considered a starter for a front line team. TJ fits the Thibs mode of a player he likes - play D, orchestrate O, and get to the rim - and would be a low cost fall back (and I think all Knicks fans would fall in love with this guy, especially given the low bar Elf has set).

The below obviously doesn't have all of the roster spot cap holds but close enough and I obviously left out the cap holds for next year but all the important guys are UFAs. Randle 2021 season salary got bumped cause of bonuses reached. Mitch's hold is 200% and I agree with knickoftime in other thread that there is no reason to sign him now versus next year.

If I am the Knicks I go after TJ-like guy (or Payne for 1 year) with more 1 year deals for the rest and sit for a year and then maybe go after Zach LaVine and Rick Brunson.

Those 2 first round picks and #32 will be juicy delight to fill out the roster.

****Edited to add NOAH


* CAP HOLDS


Age 2020-21 2021-22 2022-23 2023-24
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julius Randle 26 18,900,000 20,745,000 31,117,500
RJ Barrett 20 8,231,760 8,623,920 10,900,635 27,251,588
Derrick Rose 32 7,682,927
Frank Ntilikina 22 6,176,578
Alec Burks 29 6,000,000
Elfrid Payton 27 5,760,000
Nerlens Noel 27 5,000,000
Obi Toppin 23 4,862,040 5,105,160 5,348,280 6,803,012
Kevin Knox 21 4,588,680 5,845,978
Reggie Bullock 30 4,200,000
Taj Gibson 35 3,283,684
Luca Vildoza 25 3,162,791 3,320,930 3,479,070 3,637,209
Immanuel Q 21 2,105,520 2,210,640 2,316,240 4,171,548
Mitchell R 23 1,663,861 1,802,057 3,400,000
Norvel Pelle 28 500,000 1,701,593
2021 FRP 2,200,000 2,300,000 2,400,000
2021 FRP 2,200,000 2,300,000 2,400,000
Noah 6,431,666 6,431,666
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Team Totals 60,186,944 61,161,725 46,663,357
Salary Cap 112,000,000 116,000,000 119,000,000
Cap Space 51,813,056 54,838,275 72,336,644
xblvdels3 @ 5/18/2021 6:43 PM
This is very good. Great job

Wow ok this does change everything.


I’ll stick with the draft analysis. Still a novice with the contracts lol


Good role player talent picks 17-45 guys check out my suggested pics topic

I like the idea of Lavine and Brunson

BigDaddyG @ 5/18/2021 6:51 PM
martin wrote:I definitely made a mistake in thinking the Knicks should go all in this summer, looks like the cap situation is not much different if the team holds for a year and I gotta guess they will - FA market just sucks. I am a buyer in the TT "use the cap space to facilitate" for the next year and see what happens. 2022 just feel like the sweet spot of Lots of cap space meets Free agents that will be worth it. 2023 summer gets clogged if Randle, RJ, Mitch meet some semblance of expectations.

And after thinking about the PG situation - re the Lonzo Ball thread with Payne and TJ McConnell as PG foils - I am now more on the side that the Knicks will sign a PG and I think TJ would be good value add even though he may not be considered a starter for a front line team. TJ fits the Thibs mode of a player he likes - play D, orchestrate O, and get to the rim - and would be a low cost fall back (and I think all Knicks fans would fall in love with this guy, especially given the low bar Elf has set).

The below obviously doesn't have all of the roster spot cap holds but close enough and I obviously left out the cap holds for next year but all the important guys are UFAs. Randle 2021 season salary got bumped cause of bonuses reached. Mitch's hold is 200% and I agree with knickoftime in other thread that there is no reason to sign him now versus next year.

If I am the Knicks I go after TJ-like guy (or Payne for 1 year) with more 1 year deals for the rest and sit for a year and then maybe go after Zach LaVine and Rick Brunson.

Those 2 first round picks and #32 will be juicy delight to fill out the roster.


* CAP HOLDS


Age 2020-21 2021-22 2022-23 2023-24
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julius Randle 26 18,900,000 20,745,000 31,117,500
RJ Barrett 20 8,231,760 8,623,920 10,900,635 27,251,588
Derrick Rose 32 7,682,927
Frank Ntilikina 22 6,176,578
Alec Burks 29 6,000,000
Elfrid Payton 27 5,760,000
Nerlens Noel 27 5,000,000
Obi Toppin 23 4,862,040 5,105,160 5,348,280 6,803,012
Kevin Knox 21 4,588,680 5,845,978
Reggie Bullock 30 4,200,000
Taj Gibson 35 3,283,684
Luca Vildoza 25 3,162,791 3,320,930 3,479,070 3,637,209
Immanuel Q 21 2,105,520 2,210,640 2,316,240 4,171,548
Mitchell R 23 1,663,861 1,802,057 3,400,000
Norvel Pelle 28 500,000 1,701,593
2021 FRP 2,200,000 2,300,000 2,400,000
2021 FRP 2,200,000 2,300,000 2,400,000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Team Totals 53,755,278 61,161,725
Salary Cap 112,000,000 116,000,000 119,000,000
Cap Space 58,244,722 54,838,275

Are you thinking about starting TJ? I'm assuming you're bringing Rose back if you do. My thinking on TJ is just to wait and see how Luka performs. I like TJ in limited minutes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vildoza gave you similar impact. Also, I'm sure TJ is getting offered a multi-year deal from someone. How much would you overpay to get him to sign a one year deal?

martin @ 5/18/2021 7:03 PM
I like Rose off the bench next to IQ and it saves him some going against starters. So yes resign Rose and either start TJ or Luca.

For me, I wouldnd't trust Rose for a full season and would absolutely have 2 other PGs on the roster. Burks has been nice as a backup ball handler but just not enough for me.

Don't know what the market is for a guy like TJ but nothing more than $7M for 1 year.

Gotta guess the Knicks will also draft a PG so that player will also come into play.

BigDaddyG wrote:Are you thinking about starting TJ? I'm assuming you're bringing Rose back if you do. My thinking on TJ is just to wait and see how Luka performs. I like TJ in limited minutes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vildoza gave you similar impact. Also, I'm sure TJ is getting offered a multi-year deal from someone. How much would you overpay to get him to sign a one year deal?
Uptown @ 5/18/2021 8:07 PM
We discussed this topic (without the break down, Good stuff Martin) in a thread about a month ago and I mentioned that it would not be a good idea to use all of our cap space on this years crop of FA's, since the 2022 class is much better and has a couple of players that if we were able to sign one of them, can push us into the top 4 in the east with a legit shot at competing for the Eastern conference championship.

If we take a close look at the conservative contracts Brad Aller and the Knicks handed out last summer, then analyze the contract Luka just signed, I cannot see a scenario where we are all of a sudden going to switch gears and overpay for a couple of Free Agents that will take a large bite out of our valuable cap-space. With that said, I don't see us meeting Lonzo's contract demands or whatever it will take to pry him away from the Pels. TJ may be an option but he's a bit on the small side for Thibs, no? I could see us offering Lowry a 1 year deal for a boatload of money.

Nerlens has not only outplayed his contract for this year, but may have played himself out of a possible extension. I'm not sure if its a good idea to tie-up big dollars in a rim running/basket protecting big that can be had in the second round (See Mitchell Robinson and Rashaun Holmes). I mentioned this in the NCAA Prospects thread, but a good prospect that can perhaps give us most of what Noel gives us is a player like Charles Bassey who we can get with one of our late 1st rounders or early second rounder. The bonus would be that he would be on a rookie deal.

Unless something unforeseen opens up on the trade market (disgruntled star player wants out with Wes whispering in his ear...SHHHH!!!), I don't see us making too big of a splash this summer. A cost-effective upgrade at the point, replace Noel, and maybe sign a big name on a 1 year deal, or 2 year deal with the second being a team option. Maybe find another Alec Burks typed player who is not getting the playing time on his current team and may want to gamble on himself and sign 1 year deal with us.

EwingsGlass @ 5/18/2021 8:33 PM
1) Valid point that they do not need to “force” the issue and make bad signings. I think your spreadsheet clearly demonstrates that it isn’t a complete “use it or lose it” to the extent the Knicks don’t spend freely this offseason.

2) Could you explain the $3.4mm for Robinson? Is that his cap hold?

3) Maintaining the core on 1 year contracts would bring Rose and Bullock to Bird Rights and would make the others early birds. Worth considering what those cap holds are.

4) One aspect of cap management being given up is the ability to use exceptions (MLE, drafted player as prime examples). I think of cap management as both cap space and potential salary. If you accept that salary and skill are generally more correlated than not - the ability to exceed the cap and add more salary should add better talent depth. Theoretically, you could have quite a bit more salary than you list in 20/23 if the Knicks were to find good salary adds this year and utilize the exceptions in 22/23.

In theory, the Knicks would be in a better position to make deadline trades by adding value players and not just “facilitating” this year. Goal should be to maximize roster talent every year. I don’t really believe in the “waiting” game any longer.

BigDaddyG @ 5/18/2021 11:34 PM
Another guy the Knicks could take a flyer on in a make good deal is Malik Monk. He definitely isn't a point guard, but he could replace Burk. Or do you guys think he's to redundant?
Knixkik @ 5/18/2021 11:41 PM
martin wrote:I definitely made a mistake in thinking the Knicks should go all in this summer, looks like the cap situation is not much different if the team holds for a year and I gotta guess they will - FA market just sucks. I am a buyer in the TT "use the cap space to facilitate" for the next year and see what happens. 2022 just feel like the sweet spot of Lots of cap space meets Free agents that will be worth it. 2023 summer gets clogged if Randle, RJ, Mitch meet some semblance of expectations.

And after thinking about the PG situation - re the Lonzo Ball thread with Payne and TJ McConnell as PG foils - I am now more on the side that the Knicks will sign a PG and I think TJ would be good value add even though he may not be considered a starter for a front line team. TJ fits the Thibs mode of a player he likes - play D, orchestrate O, and get to the rim - and would be a low cost fall back (and I think all Knicks fans would fall in love with this guy, especially given the low bar Elf has set).

The below obviously doesn't have all of the roster spot cap holds but close enough and I obviously left out the cap holds for next year but all the important guys are UFAs. Randle 2021 season salary got bumped cause of bonuses reached. Mitch's hold is 200% and I agree with knickoftime in other thread that there is no reason to sign him now versus next year.

If I am the Knicks I go after TJ-like guy (or Payne for 1 year) with more 1 year deals for the rest and sit for a year and then maybe go after Zach LaVine and Rick Brunson.

Those 2 first round picks and #32 will be juicy delight to fill out the roster.


* CAP HOLDS


Age 2020-21 2021-22 2022-23 2023-24
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julius Randle 26 18,900,000 20,745,000 31,117,500
RJ Barrett 20 8,231,760 8,623,920 10,900,635 27,251,588
Derrick Rose 32 7,682,927
Frank Ntilikina 22 6,176,578
Alec Burks 29 6,000,000
Elfrid Payton 27 5,760,000
Nerlens Noel 27 5,000,000
Obi Toppin 23 4,862,040 5,105,160 5,348,280 6,803,012
Kevin Knox 21 4,588,680 5,845,978
Reggie Bullock 30 4,200,000
Taj Gibson 35 3,283,684
Luca Vildoza 25 3,162,791 3,320,930 3,479,070 3,637,209
Immanuel Q 21 2,105,520 2,210,640 2,316,240 4,171,548
Mitchell R 23 1,663,861 1,802,057 3,400,000
Norvel Pelle 28 500,000 1,701,593
2021 FRP 2,200,000 2,300,000 2,400,000
2021 FRP 2,200,000 2,300,000 2,400,000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Team Totals 53,755,278 61,161,725
Salary Cap 112,000,000 116,000,000 119,000,000
Cap Space 58,244,722 54,838,275

I agree it may be in our best interest to keep things as clean as possible for another year. TJ would be a great addition but not sure about as a starter due to being a non-factor from 3pt. Honestly I’d start Rose but make sure to have a committee behind him to keep his minutes down if we aren’t going to sign a new starting level PG. TJ just isn’t that. But I like him for this roster. You can honestly even start Burks at PG if we are concerned about Rose going up against starters.

martin @ 5/19/2021 1:27 AM
Jmpasq @ 5/19/2021 5:43 AM
I don't see Noah o there. Don't we still have to pay him for 1 more season?
xavier @ 5/19/2021 5:48 AM
Jmpasq wrote:I don't see Noah o there. Don't we still have to pay him for 1 more season?

Yes, he's still in the books for 2021-22 season ($ 6,431,666).

xblvdels3 @ 5/19/2021 6:46 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Another guy the Knicks could take a flyer on in a make good deal is Malik Monk. He definitely isn't a point guard, but he could replace Burk. Or do you guys think he's to redundant?

Good idea but let’s look at Alec burks

6-5 no shoes

6-10 wingspan

Once upon of time good vertical

Plays on/off ball

Can create his own shot


Malik monk is comparable as far as production he would offer. The only difference is size and defense and character of the two players


But monk 6-3 with 6-4 wingspan. Might as well just draft cam Thomas. Sounds about the same

Only draft player close to bullock and burks is (Chris Duarte) potentially. Size and talent

knicks1248 @ 5/19/2021 9:57 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Another guy the Knicks could take a flyer on in a make good deal is Malik Monk. He definitely isn't a point guard, but he could replace Burk. Or do you guys think he's to redundant?

I don't think he's much of an upgrade over BURK, IMO if your not going to resign a guy, then you should be replacing him with someone a hell of a lot better

Uptown @ 5/19/2021 10:08 AM
martin wrote:

He would be my number 1 target at the point but I can't imagine Dallas will let him get away...

martin @ 5/19/2021 10:31 AM
xavier wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:I don't see Noah o there. Don't we still have to pay him for 1 more season?

Yes, he's still in the books for 2021-22 season ($ 6,431,666).

oh good catch, thanks. I have updated the gift that keeps on giving... for 1 more year.

And this makes it a bit more advantageous to wait til 2022.

Knixkik @ 5/19/2021 10:33 AM
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:

He would be my number 1 target at the point but I can't imagine Dallas will let him get away...

I would love Brunson.

Here is my concern as far as team building is concerned.

Take Payton out of the mix. You have Mitch, Noel (or Gibson) for centers. Randle and Toppin at the 4. Barrett, Bullock, and Burks on the wing, and Rose with Quickley at the PG (with Quickley playing some 2). There is your 9-man rotation when healthy. Anyone we sign would either have to be a significant upgrade over one of these players, or be a depth piece. Vildoza may creep in as a 10th man, but if the Knicks play the 9 previously mentioned, than no one besides Randle and Barrett would be playing 30 mins per game anyways.

C Robinson 26 mpg
F Randle 34 mpg
G/F Bullock 28 mpg
G/F Barrett 34 mpg
G Rose 28 mpg

G/F Burks 28 mpg
G Quickley 26 mpg
F Toppin 14 mpg
C Noel 22 mpg

To me this is your rotation. Rose, Quickley, or Burks can start at PG, it doesn't matter. Vildoza can play spot minutes, and target draft picks and a couple of free agents who can provide value when needed. This works if Thibs trusts Quickley and Toppin with a few more minutes per game in year 2. I'm all for adding a solid PG this summer like Ball, McConnell, etc, but i struggle to replace anyone flat out in this 9 man rotation. If Burks or Bullock get a huge offer, that's a different story, but i am assuming Rose just doesn't let these guys walk.

EwingsGlass @ 5/19/2021 10:37 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Another guy the Knicks could take a flyer on in a make good deal is Malik Monk. He definitely isn't a point guard, but he could replace Burk. Or do you guys think he's to redundant?

I don't think he's much of an upgrade over BURK, IMO if your not going to resign a guy, then you should be replacing him with someone a hell of a lot better

I don't think he replaces Burk. Knicks are pretty jammed up at combo guard and a but light at SF. Not opposed to Monk, but it would be more as a replacement for DRose or IQ in the second unit, if one gets moved to the SL.

If the Knicks follow OP's position and basically punt another year but also resign Rose/Noel/Burks/Bullock/Gibson and otherwise facilitate other teams for more assets, they end up with a 15 man rotation of (ignore who actually starts for a moment. Clearly should maximize the first 10-man rotation based on Thibs' usage:

Rose/Vildoza /______
Barrett/Quickley /_____
Burks/Bullock/ Knox
Randle/Toppin/ Gibson
Robinson/Noel/Pelle
2Way _______/ ________


DP19/DP21/DP32/DP58

martin @ 5/19/2021 11:06 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:

He would be my number 1 target at the point but I can't imagine Dallas will let him get away...

I would love Brunson.

Here is my concern as far as team building is concerned.

Take Payton out of the mix. You have Mitch, Noel (or Gibson) for centers. Randle and Toppin at the 4. Barrett, Bullock, and Burks on the wing, and Rose with Quickley at the PG (with Quickley playing some 2). There is your 9-man rotation when healthy. Anyone we sign would either have to be a significant upgrade over one of these players, or be a depth piece. Vildoza may creep in as a 10th man, but if the Knicks play the 9 previously mentioned, than no one besides Randle and Barrett would be playing 30 mins per game anyways.

C Robinson 26 mpg
F Randle 34 mpg
G/F Bullock 28 mpg
G/F Barrett 34 mpg
G Rose 28 mpg

G/F Burks 28 mpg
G Quickley 26 mpg
F Toppin 14 mpg
C Noel 22 mpg

To me this is your rotation. Rose, Quickley, or Burks can start at PG, it doesn't matter. Vildoza can play spot minutes, and target draft picks and a couple of free agents who can provide value when needed. This works if Thibs trusts Quickley and Toppin with a few more minutes per game in year 2. I'm all for adding a solid PG this summer like Ball, McConnell, etc, but i struggle to replace anyone flat out in this 9 man rotation. If Burks or Bullock get a huge offer, that's a different story, but i am assuming Rose just doesn't let these guys walk.

We will differ on Rose being a good fit with the starting lineup. I think Rose is more of a scorer than an orchestrater and because of his age and health would be better off the bench. Rose will be 33 at the start of next season and really hasn't been a starter for 4 years now and he has not topped 65 games in a season in about a decade, I think he and Thibs realize his role.

But I am talking about 2022 lineup in regards to Brunson.

Brunson is on the same'ish contract as Mitch. 2021 becomes guaranteed on 8/1/2021 and then he would be an UFA summer 2022. Dallas would obviously have his Bird Rights but this is may be a situation where the Knicks could take advantage of Leon's connect with the Brunson family (I'm not a big CAA, Kentucky all-in connect the dots guy but this is one exception). Rick will always be competing with Luca for PG duties. Knicks will have the cap space to pay him and the starting position and team to surround him that would be better than the Dallas situation. Rick will also not have to play with a deadweight PF.

My pie in the sky targets (today) for summer 2022 are Brunson and LaVine.

Brunson, Zach, RJ, Randle, Mitch.

BigDaddyG @ 5/19/2021 11:18 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Another guy the Knicks could take a flyer on in a make good deal is Malik Monk. He definitely isn't a point guard, but he could replace Burk. Or do you guys think he's to redundant?

I don't think he's much of an upgrade over BURK, IMO if your not going to resign a guy, then you should be replacing him with someone a hell of a lot better

I don't think he replaces Burk. Knicks are pretty jammed up at combo guard and a but light at SF. Not opposed to Monk, but it would be more as a replacement for DRose or IQ in the second unit, if one gets moved to the SL.

If the Knicks follow OP's position and basically punt another year but also resign Rose/Noel/Burks/Bullock/Gibson and otherwise facilitate other teams for more assets, they end up with a 15 man rotation of (ignore who actually starts for a moment. Clearly should maximize the first 10-man rotation based on Thibs' usage:

Rose/Vildoza /______
Barrett/Quickley /_____
Burks/Bullock/ Knox
Randle/Toppin/ Gibson
Robinson/Noel/Pelle
2Way _______/ ________


DP19/DP21/DP32/DP58

Monk is young, offers full-court transition skills and has improved his three. He doesn't offer the same level of playmaking as Burks, but his scoring has been on par or better this season. I should also add I'm assuming Burks might get a multi-year deal close to the mid-level elsewhere. I'm choosing Reggie over Burks if it comes down to that. I'd definitely want to keep Burks at the right price, but we'll have to see how things play out. Ideally, you'd want replace a player by signing someone a hell of lot better, but the talent pool in a given year won't allow for it and you need to improvise.

Knixkik @ 5/19/2021 11:21 AM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:

He would be my number 1 target at the point but I can't imagine Dallas will let him get away...

I would love Brunson.

Here is my concern as far as team building is concerned.

Take Payton out of the mix. You have Mitch, Noel (or Gibson) for centers. Randle and Toppin at the 4. Barrett, Bullock, and Burks on the wing, and Rose with Quickley at the PG (with Quickley playing some 2). There is your 9-man rotation when healthy. Anyone we sign would either have to be a significant upgrade over one of these players, or be a depth piece. Vildoza may creep in as a 10th man, but if the Knicks play the 9 previously mentioned, than no one besides Randle and Barrett would be playing 30 mins per game anyways.

C Robinson 26 mpg
F Randle 34 mpg
G/F Bullock 28 mpg
G/F Barrett 34 mpg
G Rose 28 mpg

G/F Burks 28 mpg
G Quickley 26 mpg
F Toppin 14 mpg
C Noel 22 mpg

To me this is your rotation. Rose, Quickley, or Burks can start at PG, it doesn't matter. Vildoza can play spot minutes, and target draft picks and a couple of free agents who can provide value when needed. This works if Thibs trusts Quickley and Toppin with a few more minutes per game in year 2. I'm all for adding a solid PG this summer like Ball, McConnell, etc, but i struggle to replace anyone flat out in this 9 man rotation. If Burks or Bullock get a huge offer, that's a different story, but i am assuming Rose just doesn't let these guys walk.

We will differ on Rose being a good fit with the starting lineup. I think Rose is more of a scorer than an orchestrater and because of his age and health would be better off the bench. Rose will be 33 at the start of next season and really hasn't been a starter for 4 years now and he has not topped 65 games in a season in about a decade, I think he and Thibs realize his role.

But I am talking about 2022 lineup in regards to Brunson.

Brunson is on the same'ish contract as Mitch. 2021 becomes guaranteed on 8/1/2021 and then he would be an UFA summer 2022. Dallas would obviously have his Bird Rights but this is may be a situation where the Knicks could take advantage of Leon's connect with the Brunson family (I'm not a big CAA, Kentucky all-in connect the dots guy but this is one exception). Rick will always be competing with Luca for PG duties. Knicks will have the cap space to pay him and the starting position and team to surround him that would be better than the Dallas situation. Rick will also not have to play with a deadweight PF.

My pie in the sky targets (today) for summer 2022 are Brunson and LaVine.

Brunson, Zach, RJ, Randle, Mitch.

I agree, that 5 would be great. For next year Rose isn't a natural facilitator but he doesn't need to be with Randle on the floor. Rose with the other 4 starters was one of the best 5-man group in basketball this year. But like i said, you can start Burks, Rose, or Quickley, it doesn't matter. All of them play on and off the ball. For 2022, i agree that Brunson, LaVine, Barrett, Randle, and Mitch is a strong 5.

martin @ 5/19/2021 11:36 AM
Knixkik wrote:I agree it may be in our best interest to keep things as clean as possible for another year. TJ would be a great addition but not sure about as a starter due to being a non-factor from 3pt. Honestly I’d start Rose but make sure to have a committee behind him to keep his minutes down if we aren’t going to sign a new starting level PG. TJ just isn’t that. But I like him for this roster. You can honestly even start Burks at PG if we are concerned about Rose going up against starters.

Well you can't have the perfect PG in the starting rotation at the price where I am pinpointing. What can't you be sure about in the non-factor from 3point land? And what about all of the other positive things TJ CAN do much better than Rose in the starting lineup? One aspect of the game can't just be the only determinant IMHO.

What about their defense?
What about their ability to play near 80 games?
What about their ability to run an offense where getting the other guys involved is more important than getting your own shot?
What is changing Thib's decision THIS year versus next to start Rose?
To be fair, has Rose had a really good 35 game run at shooting from distance or has he displayed that type of consistency from 3 previous to showing up on the Knicks team?

I don't watch TJ at all but he seems like a guy who is a high metrics player. I'll let other speak to it (last article is the one to read in full, lots of videos).

From only a couple months ago:

https://www.nba.com/news/defensive-playe...

5. T.J. McConnell, Indiana Pacers

Counting stats might have been eclipsed by advanced metrics for the slide-rule set, but when you lead the league both in steals per game (1.85) and total steals (72) and in deflections (3.9 per) and loose balls recovered (1.4, 1T), and you’re doing it all off the bench in 25.4 minutes per game, that’s good for a Defensive Player rung. Along with this from Indianapolis Star beat scribe J. Michael on the feisty reserve point guard: “If the NBA had an All-Madden Team, T.J. McConnell would be a lock. If it had the pound-for-pound rankings such as boxing … McConnell would be champ. He’s significantly shorter than everyone else. He’s paid significantly less, too. … There’s what he does that is seen, such as his steals and assists, and then there’s the unseen. McConnell injects energy into everyone’s veins. Play up to his speed or get left behind.”


https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nb...

All-Madden/Pound-for-Pound champ

If the NBA had an All-Madden Team, T.J. McConnell would be a lock.

If it had the pound-for-pound rankings such as boxing — a mythical creation to recognize skilled smaller fighters such as Sugar Ray Robinson, who'd long been overshadowed and undercompensated compared to heavyweights — McConnell would be champ.

He's significantly shorter than everyone else. He’s paid significantly less, too. When is the last time he has dunked in a game? Has he ever dunked in a game?

There's what he does that is seen, such as his steals and assists, and then there's the unseen. McConnell injects energy into everyone's veins. Play up to his speed or get left behind. He went at Goran Dragic, an aged and poor defender, and got the shots he wanted around the rim. He made 8 of 9.

"He just changed the game. He really does," McDermott said. "He pushes the pace, gets everyone involved and it sparks our energy. He completely changed the momentum of the game and he got each and every one of us going."


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McConnell’s Magic Defies Logic

Tasty Metrics

Wrestler Scott Steiner once said, “The numbers don’t lie, and they spell disaster for you”. That is the essence of TJ’s effect on opponents.
Defense

McConnell leads the NBA in steal percentage, defined as “an estimate of the percentage of opponent possessions that end with a steal by the player when they were on the floor” (Basketball-Reference). TJ has an 26% higher metric than second place Larry Nance Jr. A 6’1 guard with a 6’0 wingspan leads the NBA in steal percentage- and by a wide margin. That is neat.

Offense
Dimer

McConnell trails only James Harden in assists per 36 minutes. Of that top ten, only Chris Paul turns the ball over at a lower rate than TJ. McConnell leads all NBA bench players in assists per game. It seems he can pass.

On top of everything, McConnell is efficient at what he does. He knows his strengths and plays to them. TJ far and away has the lowest usage rate of any point guard in the NBA. He takes smart shots, good care of the ball, and creates something from nothing. He pushes the pace as well as anyone in the league, but as indicated by his turnover statistics, is nearly always under control. Here is McConnell going 60 to zero and calmly finding the open man:

McConnell often gets his teammates good looks either on the break, in transition or using the pick-and-roll. Even at 4.5 PPG, TJ is a threat to score out of the P-n-R, and defenses respect his short shot. McConnell smartly uses this to his advantage, as seen against the Bucks.

A selective bucket

Scoring is generally best left to his teammates, but McConnell will go on speedy spurts in which he beats the defense down the floor or gets to his mid-range spots. He knocks them down, too. Both this season, and for his career, TJ shoots above 50% from the field. He pushes the pace but does not force the issue. Shots 15 feet and in are TJ’s specialty– strange for a player of his height.

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