Knicks · will a poor playoff performance by Randle effect future contract (page 1)

Thoughts ?

If I was the put a figure on salary currently after 3 games in the playoff I would say a slight raise is adequate.

What would be Randle value as a free agent (after option exercised) on the open market if he performs poorly the remaining games?

Jokingly if he sucks the next 2 games some of his money needs to go to anotber pg or wing for the team who can play when it counts lol

Ok Knicks if the ship is going down vs the hawks let’s atkeast go out classy/fighting 7 games... good progress in the overall picture

Everyone needs to bring their best effort and offensive game Sunday afternoon. Not just 2 guys!!

I think it will have a bigger impact on the contracts of the players around him.

It might make him more apt to accept a contract extension this summer, which would be at a slightly lower rate than if he waited. No doubt he has struggled. But the front office and coaching staff will chalk this up to it being his first playoff experience. Unfortunately most players need to fail in the playoffs before that can succeed.

xblvdels3 wrote:Thoughts ?

If I was the put a figure on salary currently after 3 games in the playoff I would say a slight raise is adequate.

What would be Randle value as a free agent (after option exercised) on the open market if he performs poorly the remaining games?

Jokingly if he sucks the next 2 games some of his money needs to go to anotber pg or wing for the team who can play when it counts lol

Ok Knicks if the ship is going down vs the hawks let’s atkeast go out classy/fighting 7 games... good progress in the overall picture

Everyone needs to bring their best effort and offensive game Sunday afternoon. Not just 2 guys!!

Yes, No way I max him out if this performance continues. I'm scared his play was result of playing in empty arenas. Its much easier to focus. Let him play out his deal. See what happens next year.

xblvdels3 wrote:Thoughts ?

When blkexec talks about "blaming the fans", he's talking about flip flopping impulsive reactions like this. I don't agree with him when he says it, I find it toxic in the times that he's said it and I recognize if you looked at ALL of Knicks fandom, it's usually only a few very loud voices who repeat the same flip flopping impulsive reactions. Saying blame the fans is tone deaf and just plain dumb and denies some pretty basic mathematics. Because it besmirches all fans into one big lump and that's not realistic. On the flip side, flip flopping impulsive reactions like this are also dumb because having a winning team that can contend is simply a very long road in the NBA and it's insane to expect the Knicks to turn this around after 20 plus years of self implosion.

If Randle played like the second coming of Oscar Robertson mixed with Joe Namath? Use the team option year and evaluate him further next season. Get more information to make a huge decision that could help/haunt this team for a decade.

If Randle played like the second coming of Anthony Bennett mixed with Vernon Gholston? Use the team option year and evaluate him further next season. Get more information to make a huge decision that could help/haunt this team for a decade.

What's the most likely case? Randle is better than his first season with the Knicks but less than his breakout year this year. Somewhere in the middle. That's what a rational analytics department will assess as a first take and they will likely be right.

Can a player cost himself tens and tens of millions in just a few mere minutes or a handful of games Sometimes. It's actually more rare than people think. The media likes to spark that controversy but most front offices are actually more conservative than most fans would expect or realize.

If Brock Aller believes Julius Randle was prime for regression past this season ( and I'd agree with him to be honest), he'd have come to that conclusion LONG BEFORE the series with the Hawks started.

You don't play 6-7 full season in the NBA and magically turn into something else very dramatic as a player. That's not realistic either.

If Brock Aller says Randle shouldn't get a max offer, he's made that decision long before Trae Young and his bullshit antics showed up.

That's the deal. That's how it works. It's quite boring actually. And since that doesn't sell clickbait on ESPN, they give you something else to try to incite a fanbase.

A man can be emotional and still be strong. However a man who is frantic proves his weakness. "Hot Takes" are not about emotion, it's about being frantic.

TripleThreat wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Thoughts ?

When blkexec talks about "blaming the fans", he's talking about flip flopping impulsive reactions like this. I don't agree with him when he says it, I find it toxic in the times that he's said it and I recognize if you looked at ALL of Knicks fandom, it's usually only a few very loud voices who repeat the same flip flopping impulsive reactions. Saying blame the fans is tone deaf and just plain dumb and denies some pretty basic mathematics. Because it besmirches all fans into one big lump and that's not realistic. On the flip side, flip flopping impulsive reactions like this are also dumb because having a winning team that can contend is simply a very long road in the NBA and it's insane to expect the Knicks to turn this around after 20 plus years of self implosion.

If Randle played like the second coming of Oscar Robertson mixed with Joe Namath? Use the team option year and evaluate him further next season. Get more information to make a huge decision that could help/haunt this team for a decade.

If Randle played like the second coming of Anthony Bennett mixed with Vernon Gholston? Use the team option year and evaluate him further next season. Get more information to make a huge decision that could help/haunt this team for a decade.

What's the most likely case? Randle is better than his first season with the Knicks but less than his breakout year this year. Somewhere in the middle. That's what a rational analytics department will assess as a first take and they will likely be right.

Can a player cost himself tens and tens of millions in just a few mere minutes or a handful of games Sometimes. It's actually more rare than people think. The media likes to spark that controversy but most front offices are actually more conservative than most fans would expect or realize.

If Brock Aller believes Julius Randle was prime for regression past this season ( and I'd agree with him to be honest), he'd have come to that conclusion LONG BEFORE the series with the Hawks started.

You don't play 6-7 full season in the NBA and magically turn into something else very dramatic as a player. That's not realistic either.

If Brock Aller says Randle shouldn't get a max offer, he's made that decision long before Trae Young and his bullshit antics showed up.

That's the deal. That's how it works. It's quite boring actually. And since that doesn't sell clickbait on ESPN, they give you something else to try to incite a fanbase.

A man can be emotional and still be strong. However a man who is frantic proves his weakness. "Hot Takes" are not about emotion, it's about being frantic.

I’m not flip flopping. I’m just assessing actual dollars and cents value. We need Randle on the team.

Your take is correct though. They have already assessed Randle value.

Your points are wise

For me it feels unfair to place too much blame on Randle - he's not really getting the same looks as in the regular season - because it's the playoffs and the pressure/defensive intensity is much higher. I'm gonna repeat what I said earlier in the season... and then Randle will probably have a big game 4 :) It's much easier to shut down/limit a power 4 who dominates the ball when the offense runs through him - that's not his or anyone's fault as our roster has poor balance. Randle is in good shape for a 4 but he's still a (at times) plodding 4 that backs down into the offensive sets... much easier to double team that. Trae is the Hawks engine and we can't even stay close to him - that has something to do with why their outside shooters are shooting many wide open threes. Our engine is Randle who's footspeed limits the floor spacing needed - and our shooters (save Bullock) are nowhere close to the threats Bogs, Gallinari, Huerter, etc

If you swap out Randle for a similar producing player at the 2/3 (who plays faster) you get better ball movement and it's much harder to swarm the player. Randle is not Giannis with an ability to overpower most physically/athletically... he doesn't have Lebron's match of skill, ball-handling and passing. Who else runs a power 4 as the focal guy offensively? Randle has been a jack of all trades/master of none mostly - really good at most facets of the game but doesn't have that one exceptional thing needed to overcome when he's swarmed all game. I guess we could say during the regular season he shot so well from outside that it made it much harder to double/swarm him - but that's not happening this series.

Again - if he were on the Bucks he would be doing better as they have 4 guys around him that can all hit the 3 consistently. When he gets swarmed - the Hawks double and send the other 2 to Bullock as Payton, RJ and Noel haven't hit much. Rose has shot really well from 3, but it's also because he can drive and create so it's not like he just sits outside waiting for a kick out (like Bullock who doesn't create much). RJ has really played poorly and looks like he still hasn't figured out where to go when Randle gets swarmed. I do think when our defensive intensity raises, combined with Randle making better decisions (when swarmed) and someone besides Rose contributing offensively - that's when we're playing well enough to offset the Hawks shooting onslaught.

Bottom line - whether he plays better in the rest of the series... we will either need to a)change offense to be built around Randle, b) find shooters at every position, c) land an alpha PG (Lillard) to take the ball out of Randle's hands and use him more as an offensive threat.

jskinny35 wrote:For me it feels unfair to place too much blame on Randle - he's not really getting the same looks as in the regular season - because it's the playoffs and the pressure/defensive intensity is much higher. I'm gonna repeat what I said earlier in the season... and then Randle will probably have a big game 4 :) It's much easier to shut down/limit a power 4 who dominates the ball when the offense runs through him - that's not his or anyone's fault as our roster has poor balance. Randle is in good shape for a 4 but he's still a (at times) plodding 4 that backs down into the offensive sets... much easier to double team that. Trae is the Hawks engine and we can't even stay close to him - that has something to do with why their outside shooters are shooting many wide open threes. Our engine is Randle who's footspeed limits the floor spacing needed - and our shooters (save Bullock) are nowhere close to the threats Bogs, Gallinari, Huerter, etc

If you swap out Randle for a similar producing player at the 2/3 (who plays faster) you get better ball movement and it's much harder to swarm the player. Randle is not Giannis with an ability to overpower most physically/athletically... he doesn't have Lebron's match of skill, ball-handling and passing. Who else runs a power 4 as the focal guy offensively? Randle has been a jack of all trades/master of none mostly - really good at most facets of the game but doesn't have that one exceptional thing needed to overcome when he's swarmed all game. I guess we could say during the regular season he shot so well from outside that it made it much harder to double/swarm him - but that's not happening this series.

Again - if he were on the Bucks he would be doing better as they have 4 guys around him that can all hit the 3 consistently. When he gets swarmed - the Hawks double and send the other 2 to Bullock as Payton, RJ and Noel haven't hit much. Rose has shot really well from 3, but it's also because he can drive and create so it's not like he just sits outside waiting for a kick out (like Bullock who doesn't create much). RJ has really played poorly and looks like he still hasn't figured out where to go when Randle gets swarmed. I do think when our defensive intensity raises, combined with Randle making better decisions (when swarmed) and someone besides Rose contributing offensively - that's when we're playing well enough to offset the Hawks shooting onslaught.

Bottom line - whether he plays better in the rest of the series... we will either need to a)change offense to be built around Randle, b) find shooters at every position, c) land an alpha PG (Lillard) to take the ball out of Randle's hands and use him more as an offensive threat.

Sounds about right

Unfortunately no. Randle still has plenty of leverage as he had an amazing regular season and will probably load up stat boxes next regular season

Knicks need to trade Randle and get assets or possibly even a superstar

Jmpasq wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Thoughts ?

If I was the put a figure on salary currently after 3 games in the playoff I would say a slight raise is adequate.

What would be Randle value as a free agent (after option exercised) on the open market if he performs poorly the remaining games?

Jokingly if he sucks the next 2 games some of his money needs to go to anotber pg or wing for the team who can play when it counts lol

Ok Knicks if the ship is going down vs the hawks let’s atkeast go out classy/fighting 7 games... good progress in the overall picture

Everyone needs to bring their best effort and offensive game Sunday afternoon. Not just 2 guys!!

Yes, No way I max him out if this performance continues. I'm scared his play was result of playing in empty arenas. Its much easier to focus. Let him play out his deal. See what happens next year.

The time to trade Randle is this summer

I don't think so. Teams make this mistake all the time. A player does well in a playoff series and they overpay, despite years of evidence showing otherwise. Playoffs are so matchup dependent that it's tough to make definitive decisions based on them. I believe that this playoff performance would have to continue throughout next season for Julius not to get a max extension.

Let's say Randle bounces back and leads us to victory over the Hawks - what then? It's definitely progress but do you really think as we progress the better defensive teams won't do what the Hawks did - but even better as the defenses for Phil, Nets and Bucks are much stronger. I again just think that Randle could fetch us a player that would better balance our roster (since we think RJ is still worth developing), allow Toppin to see what he has, and encourage less iso ball that is easy to defend. I think we ran this offense because Randle is clearly are best player at the moment and you ride what you got. The fact that the Hawks are whipping us doesn't bother me - but that they can so easily shut us down defensively when they're an offensive-focused team should concern us. Adding around Randle to me is pointless as there is a low ceiling unless we change our style of play. So unless a true top 5-7 star joins up which pushes Randle to the #2 guy (RJ the 3 guy) - we will be stuck in mediocrity where we won't draft a young top talent and we won't have enough roster/cap space to sign anyone worth making a huge difference. I get it's important and realistic to take steps and not win overnight - but the team's ceiling is still the ceiling unless something drastic occurs. Mitch coming back will help, maybe adding Lonzo Ball will help - but will it change how we run our offense with Randle walking the ball up and trying to be a PG in a PF's body? Randle would be perfect on a team like Denver where everyone passes well, they have a young guard that creates and most of the team is sound both defensively and from outside.

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Thoughts ?

If I was the put a figure on salary currently after 3 games in the playoff I would say a slight raise is adequate.

What would be Randle value as a free agent (after option exercised) on the open market if he performs poorly the remaining games?

Jokingly if he sucks the next 2 games some of his money needs to go to anotber pg or wing for the team who can play when it counts lol

Ok Knicks if the ship is going down vs the hawks let’s atkeast go out classy/fighting 7 games... good progress in the overall picture

Everyone needs to bring their best effort and offensive game Sunday afternoon. Not just 2 guys!!

Yes, No way I max him out if this performance continues. I'm scared his play was result of playing in empty arenas. Its much easier to focus. Let him play out his deal. See what happens next year.

The time to trade Randle is this summer

Knicks are not trading Randle. This is his first time in the playoffs. You want a perfect superstar but he’s not that yet. Only lebron is the perfect superstar. Have to let Randle continue to grow. He’s 26.

Philc1 wrote:Unfortunately no. Randle still has plenty of leverage as he had an amazing regular season and will probably load up stat boxes next regular season

Knicks need to trade Randle and get assets or possibly even a superstar

Papabear Says

What make you think a superstar will come if we trade away our so called best player.

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Thoughts ?

If I was the put a figure on salary currently after 3 games in the playoff I would say a slight raise is adequate.

What would be Randle value as a free agent (after option exercised) on the open market if he performs poorly the remaining games?

Jokingly if he sucks the next 2 games some of his money needs to go to anotber pg or wing for the team who can play when it counts lol

Ok Knicks if the ship is going down vs the hawks let’s atkeast go out classy/fighting 7 games... good progress in the overall picture

Everyone needs to bring their best effort and offensive game Sunday afternoon. Not just 2 guys!!

Yes, No way I max him out if this performance continues. I'm scared his play was result of playing in empty arenas. Its much easier to focus. Let him play out his deal. See what happens next year.

The time to trade Randle is this summer

Knicks are not trading Randle. This is his first time in the playoffs. You want a perfect superstar but he’s not that yet. Only lebron is the perfect superstar. Have to let Randle continue to grow. He’s 26.

Randle’s max contract extension is the next epic Knick debacle

Papabear wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Unfortunately no. Randle still has plenty of leverage as he had an amazing regular season and will probably load up stat boxes next regular season

Knicks need to trade Randle and get assets or possibly even a superstar

Papabear Says

What make you think a superstar will come if we trade away our so called best player.

Oh yeah that approach has worked wonders for us last 20 years

Trade Randle for assets or, I know this sounds crazy, a better player

Randle will get a max contract, if not by us, then by another team.

Well... then he better figure some shit out.

Worst moment to evaluate him. Right now I’m like I was before this season: trade him for a can of peanuts.

But that’s just my anger speaking.

Still, I’d explore what can you get for him.

I’m calm now. So we need more talent. Right? 😅

All plans were based on a Randle who was confident and could score in the playoffs. Now this is questionable, so it leaves us in a precarious position going forward.

I really don’t know what to do or the next move.

The main reason I'm pro trading Randle is that he has more value than anyone else we really could trade (aside from RJ if he were packaged with others). He was the MIP and we could try to sell high.

I beleive RJ will be ready to facilitate the offense in another year or two, and I'd rather bet on him continuing to progress vs Randle at 26/27 continuing to improve.

Also, I just think your offensive facilitator has to have more speed, better passing and court vision. Even though we're supposed to great defensively, we can't swarm Trae but the Hawks (not great defensively) can swarm Randle b/c he's a slow to average speed PF. Can't swarm a Zack Lavine who dominates the ball because he's fast enough and a threat from 35 feet in. Randle did really improve his outside shooting but he's ISO focused and the game slows down when he has the ball.

I give credit to Randle as I think he's really good as a PF trying to run an offense, just think if you replaced the sets with a PG, SG or SF we'd have much better pace, ball movement and floor spacing.

Bonus - we could play Toppin some and be more balanced offensively.