Hurts that we passed on these 2 upcoming stars for Ntlinkina & Knox.
The past can linger but finally have faith that we have some competence in the front office; and that future mistakes will be far less.
Tough to find star players at current picks 19 & 21 but then again the current NBA MVP was pick #41.
Having the best coach in the league helps.
You can't look at it that way. You may regret not taking Bridges instead of Knox. Porter had a lot of red flags for health reasons and during the draft it was thought he would fall even lower than the 14th pick where he was selected.
You may regret that we possibly didn’t take Monk instead of Frank even though he didn’t prove to be a hit either, but let’s just say you can hope he’d be a little better there. No one thought Mitchell could be very good.
There will be players in this draft who will surprise and those who will disappoint. But what I want to say is that you can’t take players that no one could have hoped would be good and say we “missed” them.
Probably some of this year's wings will exceed expectations, but whether it will be Bouknight, Thomas, Springer, Zaire...you can't know that. Likewise, if a player had a health card like Porter, everyone here would say we stay away from him (me first).
His college coach was screaming at the knicks to draft him and they told him " we can't draft him at that number ( 8th pick)."
I think it highlights the problem with draft rankings and the consensus that builds up in front offices, the media and with fans. How many times do teams select a player or not select one because it goes against the grain? The knicks had him in for workouts, even saw he was better than what he showed at louisville but did not have the conviction to "overdraft" him.
Quickley is an example where they did and it has paid off so far.
This year, with plenty of ammo and with a FO that knows how to make deals, I 'd like to see the knicks target players and go after them. The only reason not to try is if you think ( like in the nfl draft) that there are several equally valuable players in your range so that you don't have to make a move.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/21/rick-pitin...
I wanted Mitchell because of his connections to NY Sports - figured he could handle the pressure - also wanted the Bridges who were talked about at our spot.
This is the difference between smart organizations (like Dallas that wanted and knew Doncic would be game changer and had assets and smarts to make a move) and franchises like the Knicks that routinely traded away picks that turned into stars (Aldridge & Noah!).
Porter is probably the pick we should have made - we were so bereft of franchise changing talent, he was that, but the risk was there.
Yep I remember everyone clamoring for Mitchell and Porter in those drafts…NOT!
Jokic hurts more. We took Cleanthony Early. Why not start a thread on that?
Why do this to yourself?
franco12 wrote:I wanted Mitchell because of his connections to NY Sports - figured he could handle the pressure - also wanted the Bridges who were talked about at our spot.This is the difference between smart organizations (like Dallas that wanted and knew Doncic would be game changer and had assets and smarts to make a move) and franchises like the Knicks that routinely traded away picks that turned into stars (Aldridge & Noah!).
Porter is probably the pick we should have made - we were so bereft of franchise changing talent, he was that, but the risk was there.
I have read were Carlisle has admitted Doncic is better then they thought. Bottom line is they were smart and it payed off. Fultz was the top pick and he has not.
No doubt in hindsight it hurts. Here is 2002 kick in the nuts.......
First pick – Houston Rockerts - Yao Ming
Second pick – Chicago Bulls – Jay Williams
Third pick – Golden State Warriors – Mike Dunleavy Jr.
Fourth pick – Memphis Grizzlies – Drew Gooden
Fifth pick – Denver Nuggets – Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Sixth Pick – Cleveland Cavaliers – Dajuan Wagner
Seventh Pick – New York Knicks – Nenê
Eighth Pick – Los Angeles Clippers – Chris Wilcox
Amare went ninth.
Denver twice could have drafted him. I’m not saying he goes ahead of Yao Ming based on the moment, but clearly he goes #2 in hindsight, Three tops. JWill was damn good and might have panned out if not injured.
Knicks could have kept camby and drafted Amare. How things could have been different. Amare was rookie of the year. His background was hard. His mom was in jail. Dude was solid for years. Until he came here.
Old news.
NBA is full of stories like this and every team has them. Then Mitch and IQ happens. More picks, more opportunities and yes, more failures! part of a process. Mining for gold.
fishmike wrote:Jokic hurts more. We took Cleanthony Early. Why not start a thread on that? Why do this to yourself?
Why shoot yourself in the .........Oh, to soon!
Porter tweeted his back last night and had to leave the game. His GM is gonna sweat out this dude when his contract is up! Not gonna be easy. He gonna want to get paid. They all do. Question is how much and who goes there?
DSJ's situation is pretty similar to Porter's. He was considered the #1 talent out of high school before he tore his ACL. So I have to assume based on the Porter logic, these same fans wanted us to draft DSJ too, right?
MP Jr 'tweaked' his back in the last game and was limited in the 4th- the back injury risk is real
smackeddog wrote:MP Jr 'tweaked' his back in the last game and was limited in the 4th- the back injury risk is real
reminds me of Danny Granger who had top 5 talent but fell to 17 because of a knee injury and the threat of that timebomb. He was great for a spell and then his knees gave out. Exactly the kind of gamble you make when you have the 2 FRPs back to back
Welpee wrote:DSJ's situation is pretty similar to Porter's. He was considered the #1 talent out of high school before he tore his ACL. So I have to assume based on the Porter logic, these same fans wanted us to draft DSJ too, right?
DSJr had a lot more going on than just the ACL (which realistically most athletes come back from fairly OK) - back is 100% different. Dude's head has never been in the right place.
TLover wrote:Hurts that we passed on these 2 upcoming stars for Ntlinkina & Knox.
The past can linger but finally have faith that we have some competence in the front office; and that future mistakes will be far less. Tough to find star players at current picks 19 & 21 but then again the current NBA MVP was pick #41.
Having the best coach in the league helps.
If we drafted those players the front office and coaching changes never happen of course. So not sure what is a better option. Probably the mistakes creating this opportunity. Now we have Barrett, Robinson, Quickley, and Toppin as major building blocks over the last 3 drafts, not a bad group. In fact probably better than most. I think the Mikal Bridges miss hurts too, because he was a more obvious pick over Knox at the time. A lot of us really liked him. What he is doing now as a high level 3&D starter was very predictable. And drafting him probably doesn't change the struggles of the franchise leading to the coaching and front office changes. He's more of a piece, not a game-changer. But water under the bridge for all of this. We are in a good spot now.
martin wrote:Welpee wrote:DSJ's situation is pretty similar to Porter's. He was considered the #1 talent out of high school before he tore his ACL. So I have to assume based on the Porter logic, these same fans wanted us to draft DSJ too, right?
DSJr had a lot more going on than just the ACL (which realistically most athletes come back from fairly OK) - back is 100% different. Dude's head has never been in the right place.
Definitely true regarding the back. So if DSJ was less of a physical risk than Porter, more the reason people who wanted us to draft Porter should've been totally on board to draft DSJ? People were complete fine with just blindly drafting someone like Porter who you know they never saw play in high school and who only played three physically compromised games in college?
And what are these other things DSJ had going on that were reported at the time? I had no idea who I wanted the Knicks to draft, but I was 100% sure I wanted no part of DSJ based on his game.
fishmike wrote:smackeddog wrote:MP Jr 'tweaked' his back in the last game and was limited in the 4th- the back injury risk is real
reminds me of Danny Granger who had top 5 talent but fell to 17 because of a knee injury and the threat of that timebomb. He was great for a spell and then his knees gave out. Exactly the kind of gamble you make when you have the 2 FRPs back to back
Yep, the risk with MP Jr isn’t now, while hes on a rookie contract, it’s when its time to pay up- can you risk a big contract if his back might breakdown?
Knicks took Cleanthony Early over MVP Jokic! Clearly the biggest miss. The draft is a crap shoot. It's not a scientific exercise.
TLover wrote:Hurts that we passed on these 2 upcoming stars for Ntlinkina & Knox.
The past can linger but finally have faith that we have some competence in the front office; and that future mistakes will be far less. Tough to find star players at current picks 19 & 21 but then again the current NBA MVP was pick #41.
Having the best coach in the league helps.
Man I was thinking almost the exact same thing about drafting Nitklina then getting Dennis Smith. I recall Daily News article quoting Rick Pitino about how the Knicks should draft Dennis Mitchell.
As good as that 2018 class is looking right now, I feel that Knox pick is forgivable. imo. Lots of unknowns with players, experience, health and attitude BUT in 2017 we NEEDED a PG and we had three on deck at the time..DSJr, Monk and Mitchell and instead went with the inexperienced project.
I have a feeling this current FO would not have taken Frank at #8. He was a triangle pick driven by Phil's infatuation with red aurback and the triangle system. Spider Mitch might have been in play. Who knows. What I do know is Frank would not have been a knick. Well, that's my guess...since we playing this look back and see how we F up. Like most have said, it's a crop shoot. But like poker, whoever does the most studying and scouting, usually comes out on top. I have a feeling only 1 of these top PGs will pop. The rest will be solid to good roll players. If history is a lessons learned.
KnickDanger wrote:Yep I remember everyone clamoring for Mitchell and Porter in those drafts…NOT!
um, hello?
[url="http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=56495"]Donovan Mitchell[/url]
[url="http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=58302&page=2"]Michael Porter Jr[/url]
I am always spot on about everything
TLover wrote: Tough to find star players at current picks 19 & 21 but then again the current NBA MVP was pick #41.
Can't think like that.
Success happens with the right calibration of confidence. If the Knicks have four picks this draft and use them all, the mindset should be "If there are only four real hard ass motherfuckering non stop dogs who can help us win a championship in this draft, we will find them."
Years ago, I took a consulting gig to help a team evaluate prospects in the 6th-7th round range and into UDFA. Part of the problem in this area of the draft is volume of data you need to push through and usually limited information on the prospects in question. The team in question had multiple 7th round picks. I was given some entry level front office guys to do grunt work and then I hired a few contractors to do some extra film work. One of the front office guys kept talking about how the pan out rate for 7th rounders was horrible. Kept saying it. Wouldn't stop. Kept saying the team should venture into free agency to find some help on special teams. I talked to him in private at one point. But he wouldn't stop. Then I finally kicked him out of the fucking room. The assistant GM wanted to know what happened, and I told him the truth. On my ship, I need crew, not passengers.
You learn from the past, you can't live in it.
If you want the hard truth, some professional athletes can't let the last play go. Mark Sanchez had this problem ( well he had lots of problems, but this was one of them) If you give up a touchdown and you missed that tackle or blew that coverage, you know what makes everything worse? If you are lost in your head about something that happened five plays ago and now you've lost focus and given up yet another touchdown.
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."
-D. H. Lawrence
You have to have the confidence that no matter what happens in front of you, that you'll find a way to make it work. Hard work isn't enough as a professional athlete. Talent alone just isn't enough. You need to be open to humility, really listen and be fearless. You need to understand yourself more than you need to understand anything else. A franchise can't succeed if it keeps looking over it's shoulder.
The sky is not falling. It only look that way because I'm lifting the entire ground on my shoulders and making it rise up.
