Knicks · "Wings and guys who can shoot" (page 1)

Trade up options: Bouknight, Moody, Kispert

Bouknight to me is the pie in the sky goal from this draft. He fits the current NBA to a tee of a guy who can create offense and shoot and won't be a defensive liability. He has star upside with the downside of still being a good 6th man/bench spark. Kispert and Moody probably lack elite upside, but are safe role players. Moody could be a Mikal Bridges as a best-case, and his downside is probably still a Reggie Bullock type. Kispert has Joe Harris written all over him, a good shooter to surround stars with.

Wings who can shoot that we may or may not have to trade up for: Chris Duarte, Trey Murphy, Cam Thomas

Duarte seems like a safe wing to contribute to a playoff team, similar to Bane last year. The question becomes whether or not the Knicks are looking to get more out of this draft. Murphy is really has become intriguing. His combine was really good as he can shoot, he's athletic, and he's a legit 6'9 with 7'0 wingspan. I think about when the Hawks were able to hide Trae Young on Bullock. Imagine them trying that with Murphy. He should be able to take smaller wings to the post and use his length, athleticism, and touch to become a mismatch. We need big wings who can shoot and he fits like a glove. He just turned 21 so maybe there's some upside there. But why didn't he dominate at Rice or Virginia? Thomas is a CAA client who can score. I don't see much else there other than microwave scoring off the bench, which is still very useful in the middle of the first round.

I think there's a decent chance we draft 1 of these 6 players based on Thibs' response. Of these players, Bouknight is my best case scenario in a trade up, but not sure we can get high enough. Murphy is becoming very interesting to me as a player who we grab at 19 or maybe combine 19 and 32 to move up slightly for if his stock continues to soar. I look at the size and shooting and i don't see a player who drops out of the teens. Duarte is there at 19 for me as a safe fallback rotation wing.

This guy is also a good defender w excellent bounce.

BRIGGS wrote:

This guy is also a good defender w excellent bounce.

With the 32nd pick, absolutely. Has to be a consideration.

BRIGGS wrote:

This guy is also a good defender w excellent bounce.

After watching many of knox and frank youtube highlights, i was so encouraged by the picks, Then came reality.

It's better to post the videos of the prospects breakdown showing both weaknesses and strengths, because when I watch Knox and franks weaknesses (and i'm just using them as an example) they still are very Glaring yrs later, and it's pretty much kept them on the bench.

here's his weaknesses

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

This guy is also a good defender w excellent bounce.

After watching many of knox and frank youtube highlights, i was so encouraged by the picks, Then came reality.

It's better to post the videos of the prospects breakdown showing both weaknesses and strengths, because when I watch Knox and franks weaknesses (and i'm just using them as an example) they still are very Glaring yrs later, and it's pretty much kept them on the bench.

here's his weaknesses

With Frank and Knox, there's no lack of skills that are preventing them from being good. It is a mental thing. The front office will have to gauge these guys to determine if they have the mental strength to be good NBA players. Right now with Frank and Knox that seems to be the biggest roadblock. Frank could be a 3&D combo guard with some facilitation ability if he wanted. But he's afraid to shoot or so anything on offense. Knox has shown a big, athletic, sweet shooting combo forward for years now, and just doesn't seem to want to grab the opportunity. His mental toughness is the difference between being a tabias harris type scorer, and a end of bench player. Remember his summer league talent? That type of player could have grown into a real impact player by now if he really wanted it.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

This guy is also a good defender w excellent bounce.

After watching many of knox and frank youtube highlights, i was so encouraged by the picks, Then came reality.

It's better to post the videos of the prospects breakdown showing both weaknesses and strengths, because when I watch Knox and franks weaknesses (and i'm just using them as an example) they still are very Glaring yrs later, and it's pretty much kept them on the bench.

here's his weaknesses

With Frank and Knox, there's no lack of skills that are preventing them from being good. It is a mental thing. The front office will have to gauge these guys to determine if they have the mental strength to be good NBA players. Right now with Frank and Knox that seems to be the biggest roadblock. Frank could be a 3&D combo guard with some facilitation ability if he wanted. But he's afraid to shoot or so anything on offense. Knox has shown a big, athletic, sweet shooting combo forward for years now, and just doesn't seem to want to grab the opportunity. His mental toughness is the difference between being a tabias harris type scorer, and a end of bench player. Remember his summer league talent? That type of player could have grown into a real impact player by now if he really wanted it.

i think one of Thibs's better traits is getting guys to better avoid taking bad shots. my confidence in both frank and KK's shot last year was higher -- they just weren't doing enough compared to their teammates to get more time. Hoping they come back stronger. frank needs more oopmh on offense; KK on defense

BRIGGS wrote:

This guy is also a good defender w excellent bounce.

I'm high on Joe's 3&D potential. I'd consider taking him as high as 21. Another 3&D guy I'm high on is Josh Primo. He's young, but he also shows potential as a high level 3&D player.

Chandler wrote:i still have a soft spot for Frank and KK and hope they turn the corner. Even though they barely got time last year (and i fully understand why), i actually thought they showed better than in prior years.

i think one of Thibs's better traits is getting guys to better avoid taking bad shots. my confidence in both frank and KK's shot last year was higher -- they just weren't doing enough compared to their teammates to get more time. Hoping they come back stronger. frank needs more oopmh on offense; KK on defense

How can you have a soft spot for players that don't elevate their game to help their teams win, especially when you have every single tool needed at your finger tips (trainers, film rooms, pick up games, G league, top notch facilities to work out in)

I root for guys like randle, Rj, IQ who have a relentless work ethic and a passion that you see on the court every game, and you see their growth in every other game.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's just glued to one position or if he can swing down to 2 or up to the 4.
I don't see lottery talent. He does fill a definite need, so I can understand why a team would reach.

And I don't even mean to sound obtuse but that definite need to me translates to 1 trick pony. And if you are going to be that pony, you need to be uber elite at it across the NBA to succeed as a wing?

For me, what is he doing more than Aaron Neismith when you have some potential Saddiq Bey's on the board.

Or rather, what is Kispert doing to separate himself from the likes of Trey Murphy or Chris Duarte?

I don't watch him but still dont get the attraction

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's just glued to one position or if he can swing down to 2 or up to the 4.
I don't see lottery talent. He does fill a definite need, so I can understand why a team would reach.

And I don't even mean to sound obtuse but that definite need to me translates to 1 trick pony. And if you are going to be that pony, you need to be uber elite at it across the NBA to succeed as a wing?

For me, what is he doing more than Aaron Neismith when you have some potential Saddiq Bey's on the board.

Or rather, what is Kispert doing to separate himself from the likes of Trey Murphy or Chris Duarte?

I don't watch him but still dont get the attraction

It's a fair point. I like Murphy and Duarte a lot and feel like they have higher potential than Kispert in the right environment, especially Murphy. Kispert's attraction is simply being one of the best shooters to come into the league in awhile. We see Joe Harris and Duncan Robinson as legit starting wings on good teams who are getting paid/will get paid. If you think that type of player gets exposed in the playoffs than i can understand. But wherever you feel that type of player should go in the draft is where Kispert belongs. I see an elite shooter like him who can shoot from everywhere without being a liability on the defensive end as a late lottery/mid first rounder.

But i will hang my hat on Murphy or Duarte if we stay put or move up slightly (trade 19 & 32 if need be) and Bouknight if we can move up high enough (19, 21, & 32 trade for a top 10-12 pick for example.)

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

I really just cant wait to see what we do. I have no clue how it goes but I feel like we get some guy(s) that are really gonna help or maybe we play the long game and take some high ceiling developmental guys. Who knows, but we know from last draft he like to wheel and deal

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's just glued to one position or if he can swing down to 2 or up to the 4.
I don't see lottery talent. He does fill a definite need, so I can understand why a team would reach.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's just glued to one position or if he can swing down to 2 or up to the 4.
I don't see lottery talent. He does fill a definite need, so I can understand why a team would reach.

And I don't even mean to sound obtuse but that definite need to me translates to 1 trick pony. And if you are going to be that pony, you need to be uber elite at it across the NBA to succeed as a wing?

For me, what is he doing more than Aaron Neismith when you have some potential Saddiq Bey's on the board.

Or rather, what is Kispert doing to separate himself from the likes of Trey Murphy or Chris Duarte?

I don't watch him but still dont get the attraction

I absolutely agree with you. Thinking about it from that perspective, Trey Murphy really shows some Bey type potential. The way Virginia plays will make his numbers less intriguing, but the tape on him is impressive.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's just glued to one position or if he can swing down to 2 or up to the 4.
I don't see lottery talent. He does fill a definite need, so I can understand why a team would reach.

And I don't even mean to sound obtuse but that definite need to me translates to 1 trick pony. And if you are going to be that pony, you need to be uber elite at it across the NBA to succeed as a wing?

For me, what is he doing more than Aaron Neismith when you have some potential Saddiq Bey's on the board.

Or rather, what is Kispert doing to separate himself from the likes of Trey Murphy or Chris Duarte?

I don't watch him but still dont get the attraction

It's a fair point. I like Murphy and Duarte a lot and feel like they have higher potential than Kispert in the right environment, especially Murphy. Kispert's attraction is simply being one of the best shooters to come into the league in awhile. We see Joe Harris and Duncan Robinson as legit starting wings on good teams who are getting paid/will get paid. If you think that type of player gets exposed in the playoffs than i can understand. But wherever you feel that type of player should go in the draft is where Kispert belongs. I see an elite shooter like him who can shoot from everywhere without being a liability on the defensive end as a late lottery/mid first rounder.

But i will hang my hat on Murphy or Duarte if we stay put or move up slightly (trade 19 & 32 if need be) and Bouknight if we can move up high enough (19, 21, & 32 trade for a top 10-12 pick for example.)

What does "without being a liability on the defensive end" mean to you? Does that mean he can defend or that you need to hide him on defense?

What about his ability as a wing to stop guys from just blowing by him? Does he have lateral quickness? I don't see that.

Duncan Robinson runs around the court and has a ton of movement. Is that Kispert's game? I like Duncan as an undrafted player who honed his craft in the GLeague to prove his worth and then signed to that level of contract.

Can you find guys like that in the draft without spending a lottery draft pick? Knicks just nabbed IQ at #25. What is Kispert doing that IQ isn't? Except being taller?

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:I don't get the infatuation with Kispert, and especially in the lottery or even at #21.

What is he doing better than a Reggie Bullock type player?

Can he put ball on floor?

Can he defend? His lateral quickness seems on par with Obi's.

Guys like this get eaten alive during playoffs IMHO

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's just glued to one position or if he can swing down to 2 or up to the 4.
I don't see lottery talent. He does fill a definite need, so I can understand why a team would reach.

And I don't even mean to sound obtuse but that definite need to me translates to 1 trick pony. And if you are going to be that pony, you need to be uber elite at it across the NBA to succeed as a wing?

For me, what is he doing more than Aaron Neismith when you have some potential Saddiq Bey's on the board.

Or rather, what is Kispert doing to separate himself from the likes of Trey Murphy or Chris Duarte?

I don't watch him but still dont get the attraction

It's a fair point. I like Murphy and Duarte a lot and feel like they have higher potential than Kispert in the right environment, especially Murphy. Kispert's attraction is simply being one of the best shooters to come into the league in awhile. We see Joe Harris and Duncan Robinson as legit starting wings on good teams who are getting paid/will get paid. If you think that type of player gets exposed in the playoffs than i can understand. But wherever you feel that type of player should go in the draft is where Kispert belongs. I see an elite shooter like him who can shoot from everywhere without being a liability on the defensive end as a late lottery/mid first rounder.

But i will hang my hat on Murphy or Duarte if we stay put or move up slightly (trade 19 & 32 if need be) and Bouknight if we can move up high enough (19, 21, & 32 trade for a top 10-12 pick for example.)

What does "without being a liability on the defensive end" mean to you? Does that mean he can defend or that you need to hide him on defense?

What about his ability as a wing to stop guys from just blowing by him? Does he have lateral quickness? I don't see that.

Duncan Robinson runs around the court and has a ton of movement. Is that Kispert's game? I like Duncan as an undrafted player who honed his craft in the GLeague to prove his worth and then signed to that level of contract.

Can you find guys like that in the draft without spending a lottery draft pick? Knicks just nabbed IQ at #25. What is Kispert doing that IQ isn't? Except being taller?

To respond to a few questions of yours;

He doesn't need to be hid on defense. He has good size and strength and tested pretty well athletically in the combine. He's a player that can become a league average (or slightly below average) defensive player.

He's a good movement shooter, who will become better in the league.

Otherwise i agree, for a team that can find IQ at the end of the first round, it's less valuable to add a lower upside role player from the middle of the first round.

Knixkik wrote:[snip]

Moody probably lack elite upside, but are safe role players. Moody could be a Mikal Bridges as a best-case, and his downside is probably still a Reggie Bullock type.

I like Moody a lot. For me, his upside is a lesser Klay Thompson and his floor is around Mikal Bridges. Both Klay and Mikal played 3 years in college so we have to project out a bit for Moody.

He doesn't have elite athleticism but is long like Mikal. Very nice shooting form and he moves and competes on D. Lacks strength and explosiveness.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:[snip]

Moody probably lack elite upside, but are safe role players. Moody could be a Mikal Bridges as a best-case, and his downside is probably still a Reggie Bullock type.

I like Moody a lot. For me, his upside is a lesser Klay Thompson and his floor is around Mikal Bridges. Both Klay and Mikal played 3 years on college so we have to project out a bit for Moody.

He doesn't have elite athleticism but is long like Mikal. Very nice shooting form and he moves and competes on D. Lacks strength and explosiveness.

I like Moody too. My only concern is he doesn't do anything elite, but he can definitely be a high level 3&D guy. And honestly Cam Thomas is still a good option. He's a professional scorer, one of the best if not best in this draft, and at the very least he's going to be a great bench scorer sooner rather than later.