Knicks · Biggest mistake of offseason (page 1)
I didnt really look at Keon Johnson much--his name honestly was not close to where we were drafting. Sometimes players fall Giannis 15 Kobe 13 ETC>>> but we gave up the opportunity to cultivate an uber athletic wing whose fundamentals are much better than what was perceived. I think all the way down at 19--a guy like that falls for whatever reason--I think you take him. Teams become obsessed with process---they have something in place a player teyve keyed on. We keyed on Duarte Grimes and McBride. But this guy has open floor power and athletiscm that only a few players have. I think we will look back on this miss. Even Kai Jones hurts when I step back and look at the picks. We had Kai Jones and Keon Johnson? We took the path of role players instead of high end upside. Not going to get this opportunity much.
BRIGGS wrote:I understand that we can have a trade add free agents etc... BUT the more I personally evaluated the whole schmeal--I think we made a BRUTAL BRUTAL mistake not simply drafting Keon Johnson. I know we have rookies galore BUT imho the arent high end caliber rookies--more like role players with upside.I didnt really look at Keon Johnson much--his name honestly was not close to where we were drafting. Sometimes players fall Giannis 15 Kobe 13 ETC>>> but we gave up the opportunity to cultivate an uber athletic wing whose fundamentals are much better than what was perceived. I think all the way down at 19--a guy like that falls for whatever reason--I think you take him. Teams become obsessed with process---they have something in place a player teyve keyed on. We keyed on Duarte Grimes and McBride. But this guy has open floor power and athletiscm that only a few players have. I think we will look back on this miss
Yeah i can see your point here. That being said, his biggest knock is his lack of shooting and overall skill. I have a hard time betting on that type of player. When you are betting on a player who lacks skill, you hope they have size like Giannis or some other standout skill. You can make an argument for his defense i guess. I agree about the opportunity at 19/21, but that is a bigtime project that i don't think the knicks wanted.
Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I understand that we can have a trade add free agents etc... BUT the more I personally evaluated the whole schmeal--I think we made a BRUTAL BRUTAL mistake not simply drafting Keon Johnson. I know we have rookies galore BUT imho the arent high end caliber rookies--more like role players with upside.I didnt really look at Keon Johnson much--his name honestly was not close to where we were drafting. Sometimes players fall Giannis 15 Kobe 13 ETC>>> but we gave up the opportunity to cultivate an uber athletic wing whose fundamentals are much better than what was perceived. I think all the way down at 19--a guy like that falls for whatever reason--I think you take him. Teams become obsessed with process---they have something in place a player teyve keyed on. We keyed on Duarte Grimes and McBride. But this guy has open floor power and athletiscm that only a few players have. I think we will look back on this miss
Yeah i can see your point here. That being said, his biggest knock is his lack of shooting and overall skill. I have a hard time betting on that type of player. When you are betting on a player who lacks skill, you hope they have size like Giannis or some other standout skill. You can make an argument for his defense i guess. I agree about the opportunity at 19/21, but that is a bigtime project that i don't think the knicks wanted.
We missed Kai Jones 6-11 and Keon 6-5---Im sorry will have to wait and see. We couldve likely had all 4 players. Instead we have 2---it couldve eased expectations of FA. The rookies we have arent guys that will stand out to quick IMHO>
That to me is the biggest mistake. - As we have in another thread - go with Devonte Graham. Heck, sign and trade for him could have been rights to their own pick back with Kevin Knox!
franco12 wrote:I'm going with throwing our money at Fournier when we desperately needed a PG and came out of FA with just Rose & his 33 year old body with injury history and lots of mileage.That to me is the biggest mistake. - As we have in another thread - go with Devonte Graham. Heck, sign and trade for him could have been rights to their own pick back with Kevin Knox!
Fournier was a good signing. He's a difference maker. Look at what Bogdonavic and Gallinari did for Atlanta. Fournier is a more proven version of Bog. This is the player you need most in today's game, a wing who can shoot and create offense.
BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fella
Knicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
I think this is the key thing, and the thing probably me and others are struggling with a bit - Thibs has a system - this is like a college program or a program like what San Antonio or Utah run, allowing them to be relevant year over year, find guys that step in and look awesome that came out of nowhere.
Personally, I feel like we punted on the draft, wasted our cap room and did not improve.
I expect us to take a step back next year unless there is growth out of RJ, IQ, Robinson, Obi.
Of course, I was wrong about this last year. It's hard, we've been conditioned by 20 years of futility by Dolan's Knicks.
I think the FO and Thibs has earned the benefit of the doubt (that is so hard to say!)
Regardless, and I think you'll agree, I don't see us as a Championship contender, nor do I see the parts coming to make that happen.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
Most nba champions have a freak athlete or two. I dont see much comparison to Detroit Pistons and its also a different era.
Im not disappointed about the offseaon--but I think we fkcd up moving back in the draft. We had the 34-36 picks Mcrbide and Grimes likely there. We dont need the Lithuanian.
BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
Most nba champions have a freak athlete or two. I dont see much comparison to Detroit Pistons and its also a different era.
Im not disappointed about the offseaon--but I think we fkcd up moving back in the draft. We had the 34-36 picks Mcrbide and Grimes likely there. We dont need the Lithuanian.
Grimes wasn't lasting to 34.
Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
Most nba champions have a freak athlete or two. I dont see much comparison to Detroit Pistons and its also a different era.
Im not disappointed about the offseaon--but I think we fkcd up moving back in the draft. We had the 34-36 picks Mcrbide and Grimes likely there. We dont need the Lithuanian.
Grimes wasn't lasting to 34.
Look at the board hed be there at 34
BRIGGS wrote:Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
Most nba champions have a freak athlete or two. I dont see much comparison to Detroit Pistons and its also a different era.
Im not disappointed about the offseaon--but I think we fkcd up moving back in the draft. We had the 34-36 picks Mcrbide and Grimes likely there. We dont need the Lithuanian.
Grimes wasn't lasting to 34.
Look at the board hed be there at 34
I think he was ideal for those backend first round contenders. It's a really out of box assumption to think he falls out of the first round given his NBA ready skillset and where he fell on all mock drafts by the experts.
personally i think Briggs swings for the fences a lot. Not that long ago he was bemoaning our not spending 17 million/year on A.Crabbe
Keon might be great. he might be worse than DSJ
i think we got two guys who will contribute in a meaningful way which is the smart play in my book when picking where we were
BRIGGS wrote:I understand that we can have a trade add free agents etc... BUT the more I personally evaluated the whole schmeal--I think we made a BRUTAL BRUTAL mistake not simply drafting Keon Johnson. I know we have rookies galore BUT imho the arent high end caliber rookies--more like role players with upside.I didnt really look at Keon Johnson much--his name honestly was not close to where we were drafting. Sometimes players fall Giannis 15 Kobe 13 ETC>>> but we gave up the opportunity to cultivate an uber athletic wing whose fundamentals are much better than what was perceived. I think all the way down at 19--a guy like that falls for whatever reason--I think you take him. Teams become obsessed with process---they have something in place a player teyve keyed on. We keyed on Duarte Grimes and McBride. But this guy has open floor power and athletiscm that only a few players have. I think we will look back on this miss. Even Kai Jones hurts when I step back and look at the picks. We had Kai Jones and Keon Johnson? We took the path of role players instead of high end upside. Not going to get this opportunity much.
Your argument is what? Talent outweighs a plan? The Knicks got the guys they wanted except for Duarte，hopefully that was payback from us stealing Marcus Morris and Leon can send R.C Buford a nice fruit cake in December.
Also， it seems clear that for the first time since Isiah took over， the front office is hoping for a second contract themselves. Previous regimes have operated under the "all in before the flop with pocket 10s" principle; yeah those signings might work out， but everyone can see the downside. I will start criticizing once they start losing games.
BRIGGS wrote:Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
Most nba champions have a freak athlete or two. I dont see much comparison to Detroit Pistons and its also a different era.
Im not disappointed about the offseaon--but I think we fkcd up moving back in the draft. We had the 34-36 picks Mcrbide and Grimes likely there. We dont need the Lithuanian.
Grimes wasn't lasting to 34.
Look at the board hed be there at 34
I've read more than 1 article that stated Grimes would have been drafted by Denver at $26. https://theathletic.com/2742645/2021/07/...
I would have been thrilled with Kai and Keon but after the dust settled I do see why the Knicks nabbed Grimes, McBride and the Euro stash and am very comfortable with them. In fact, I think having Rokas Jokubaitis play in Barcelona for a year or more is the perfect stash situation, he has the chance to be VERY solid.
I would have still loved Keon for his athleticism and upside and wish the Knicks went with him.
When all is said and done, I think Grimes will make any Keon regrets disappear quickly, dude is going to impress. Before the FA market, I had him playing more than IQ but with Burks off bench, I don't know what is going on.
martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Were gonna look back and slots 19 and 21 and sht our pants--thats my prediction.you also wanted to give max contracts to Isaiah Thomas and Enes Kantor. Easy fellaKnicks drafted 2 skilled and long 2 way guards who can really shoot it and Sims might be the best raw athlete in the draft. Luka is 25 year old rookie as well. You have 4 guys coming in who can help and play a role right away who are young on rookie deals. None are blue chip guys but we tried to trade up and failed so they took guys they thought fit into the program. Shall I bring up what you said about IQ last year? How's he look?
Most nba champions have a freak athlete or two. I dont see much comparison to Detroit Pistons and its also a different era.
Im not disappointed about the offseaon--but I think we fkcd up moving back in the draft. We had the 34-36 picks Mcrbide and Grimes likely there. We dont need the Lithuanian.
Grimes wasn't lasting to 34.
Look at the board hed be there at 34I've read more than 1 article that stated Grimes would have been drafted by Denver at $26. https://theathletic.com/2742645/2021/07/...
I would have been thrilled with Kai and Keon but after the dust settled I do see why the Knicks nabbed Grimes, McBride and the Euro stash and am very comfortable with them. In fact, I think having Rokas Jokubaitis play in Barcelona for a year or more is the perfect stash situation, he has the chance to be VERY solid.
I would have still loved Keon for his athleticism and upside and wish the Knicks went with him.
When all is said and done, I think Grimes will make any Keon regrets disappear quickly, dude is going to impress. Before the FA market, I had him playing more than IQ but with Burks off bench, I don't know what is going on.
This is where i stand. I'm comfortable with the pick. The offseason of adding Grimes, McBride, Fournier and resigning Noel, Rose and Burks is like the most boring offseason ever, but that's the most negative thing i can say (so far.) We valued continuity but also got better. Everyone we added to the team that will be on the active roster can shoot and make plays off the dribble. There's value in not really worrying about untapped potential and just adding players who are good at basketball. I remember how excited i was when we added Anthony Randolph from the David Lee sign and trade. I saw huge potential with a crazy-new age frontcourt of Amare, Randolph, and Gallinari that was big, young, athletic, versatile, and all of that. What we did this summer is the opposite of that. Adding boring, good players who lack potential.
not a very august list. was surprised DSJ didn't make the list
gradyandrew wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I understand that we can have a trade add free agents etc... BUT the more I personally evaluated the whole schmeal--I think we made a BRUTAL BRUTAL mistake not simply drafting Keon Johnson. I know we have rookies galore BUT imho the arent high end caliber rookies--more like role players with upside.I didnt really look at Keon Johnson much--his name honestly was not close to where we were drafting. Sometimes players fall Giannis 15 Kobe 13 ETC>>> but we gave up the opportunity to cultivate an uber athletic wing whose fundamentals are much better than what was perceived. I think all the way down at 19--a guy like that falls for whatever reason--I think you take him. Teams become obsessed with process---they have something in place a player teyve keyed on. We keyed on Duarte Grimes and McBride. But this guy has open floor power and athletiscm that only a few players have. I think we will look back on this miss. Even Kai Jones hurts when I step back and look at the picks. We had Kai Jones and Keon Johnson? We took the path of role players instead of high end upside. Not going to get this opportunity much.
Your argument is what? Talent outweighs a plan? The Knicks got the guys they wanted except for Duarte，hopefully that was payback from us stealing Marcus Morris and Leon can send R.C Buford a nice fruit cake in December.
Also， it seems clear that for the first time since Isiah took over， the front office is hoping for a second contract themselves. Previous regimes have operated under the "all in before the flop with pocket 10s" principle; yeah those signings might work out， but everyone can see the downside. I will start criticizing once they start losing games.
200%. Talent outweighs a plan. What plan did Milwaukee have when they picked giannis? No doubt about it. In the end we could’ve had grimes Johnson and McBride. I think trading pick 19 for a future to a perennial shtty team was wrong. That was an opportunity to take a calculated risk on an Uber athlete who has very decent fundamentals.