Knicks · Nerlens Noel Sour grapes or legit? (page 2)
fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:Malpractice exists in many professions where you've essentially hired someone to be your expert or agent. You may want to blame Noel for not taking the extension, but he had Rich Paul+team as trusted advisors and if the advice was you coud make more long haul on the open market by taking the QO he probably followed that believing that was the best strategy. I don't know Rich Paul+firm's motivations, but malpractice could happen for a variety of reasons- de-prioritization, incompetence, poor execution etc. Remember Rich Paul was a guy who was Lebron's buddy who was selling throwback jersey's from the trunk of his car. Not saying Paul hasn't been a good agent/advisor to Lebron+others, but he didn't come into the profession with a law degree or other negotiating background. If Noel was down his list of priorities all this seems pretty plausible. I tend to believe Noel here given he has named specific teams he came to find out later had interest, but never got to the negotiating table with his agents.agree, and its also been a long time. Meaning Noel has since found out teams were trying to reach out on him an Paul wasnt passing that info to Noel? Thats really incredible and nauseating. I know we have one as pres but agents are known for scruples or honor
Is this hearsay? Noel guessing? Clients always claim agents are not doing enough and are missing out on possible deals. Do not see why an agent would not follow through on a deal that would result in a commission? This seems motivated by the grievance filed and by some ambulance-chasing attorney in his ear. Paul did nothing wrong as many NBA players are instructed to wait until they are unrestricted. As it improves the overall market for that player. I am sure that Noel knew the risk of injury as it exists in every sport/contract. Noel blaming Paul for an unforeseen injury that created an unfortunate outcome seems like Noel trying to remove any personal responsibility. However, a big firm should have disclosure forms in place where the client is informed of the risks of turning down a guaranteed deal. Would also think that firms this big have notices that clients sign in order to remove the firm's liability in making decisions for the client.
MaTT4281 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Turning down the big contract isn't on Rich Paul. But if he did not return calls or act on behalf of his client than that's different. Naming Brett Brown was big. If he provides some sort of proof than this might have legs. People who read the headline will focus on the contract, but the details of essentially freezing out his own client is the real issue here.I hadn't heard that piece about Brett.
https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/former...
But former Sixers head coach Brett Brown allegedly proved that wasn't the case. In Heitner's report, he notes that Noel initially learned from his former head that the 76ers were reaching out to his representatives during the offseason to try and work out a deal for a reunion. Rich Paul "refused to respond," according to the report.Later on, Noel reportedly found out that was the case with several teams. Over the last few years, Noel has been a free agent twice. Both times, the Sixers were rumored to be linked to the big man as he would've been a stellar backup for the team's MVP finalist Joel Embiid.
Each time Noel was linked to the Sixers but never actually signed, there was never any concrete proof as to whether there was truly an effort to sign Noel or not. While Paul hasn't confirmed or denied wrongdoing on his behalf, the report indicates that the Sixers attempted to form a Nerlens Noel reunion a few years back. Unfortunately, it seems they weren't able to negotiate properly.
If you have actual names and officials who can substantiate that - that's pretty damning. It ended up working out in our favor, but hope Noel gets paid!
Sixers were looking for a backup. Perhaps Paul knew that a backup is not going to garnish $90 million. Maybe the reason why he was not interested in Sixers? Did the Sixers send an actual offer? Do agree that agents should respond to ALL inquiries though.
Summer comes around and the market price for him is 75% less than what Dallas offered him, he knew he was screwed.
Did noel think he can get 80 to 90 mill because he can play defense..GTFOH
HofstraBBall wrote:No its not hearsay, and this is why its coming out now. Noel learned from Brett Brown that Phili wanted to bring him in and his agent didnt return their calls. THAT is what started this. Noel has evidence.fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:Malpractice exists in many professions where you've essentially hired someone to be your expert or agent. You may want to blame Noel for not taking the extension, but he had Rich Paul+team as trusted advisors and if the advice was you coud make more long haul on the open market by taking the QO he probably followed that believing that was the best strategy. I don't know Rich Paul+firm's motivations, but malpractice could happen for a variety of reasons- de-prioritization, incompetence, poor execution etc. Remember Rich Paul was a guy who was Lebron's buddy who was selling throwback jersey's from the trunk of his car. Not saying Paul hasn't been a good agent/advisor to Lebron+others, but he didn't come into the profession with a law degree or other negotiating background. If Noel was down his list of priorities all this seems pretty plausible. I tend to believe Noel here given he has named specific teams he came to find out later had interest, but never got to the negotiating table with his agents.agree, and its also been a long time. Meaning Noel has since found out teams were trying to reach out on him an Paul wasnt passing that info to Noel? Thats really incredible and nauseating. I know we have one as pres but agents are known for scruples or honorIs this hearsay? Noel guessing? Clients always claim agents are not doing enough and are missing out on possible deals. Do not see why an agent would not follow through on a deal that would result in a commission? This seems motivated by the grievance filed and by some ambulance-chasing attorney in his ear. Paul did nothing wrong as many NBA players are instructed to wait until they are unrestricted. As it improves the overall market for that player. I am sure that Noel knew the risk of injury as it exists in every sport/contract. Noel blaming Paul for an unforeseen injury that created an unfortunate outcome seems like Noel trying to remove any personal responsibility. However, a big firm should have disclosure forms in place where the client is informed of the risks of turning down a guaranteed deal. Would also think that firms this big have notices that clients sign in order to remove the firm's liability in making decisions for the client.
Its a nasty business. Its on the UK front page on the right.
Wes might have somthing to say about it too. Nerlens stayed with him for 4 years.
Leon was Lebrons agent until Paul took him with him. The small guys get big, the the little guys under them go Jerry McGuire and leave. Its the jungle.
Nalod wrote:Read a blog that suggested Leon might have a bone to pick with Paul given how he fucked him splitting from CAA.
Its a nasty business. Its on the UK front page on the right.
Wes might have somthing to say about it too. Nerlens stayed with him for 4 years.
Leon was Lebrons agent until Paul took him with him. The small guys get big, the the little guys under them go Jerry McGuire and leave. Its the jungle.
I think this is part of it， but don't forget that this is a counter suit. The original suit alleges that Noel didn't pay Paul 200k from his last contract. It's possible Leon negotiated that deal directly with Noel.
Leon Rose (who was formerly an agent at Creative Artists Agency but then the President of the New York Knicks) reached out about a deal and Noel ultimately signed a 1-year contract for $5 million.
That is probably the basis for Noel deciding not to pay Paul (Noel did the work himself). Maybe if Paul had put things in perspective，he would have just let it go. Undoubtedly， he wishes he had now.
Lawyers always tell you to sue for as much as possible. I agree that ultimately the decision to turn down the Dallas offer was Noel's. I don't think a judge/ jury would see that any other way. It does establish a baseline for a charge of incompetence. Also， there's the priceless feeling for Noel of being to turn the conversation from "I can't believe Noel turned the Dallas offer down" to "Rich Paul screwed the pooch on that one."
If Noel can prove he had offers greater than the one's he expected on the table that weren't delivered，Noel should be entitled to the difference in compensation. Brett Brown is an interesting c witness. Any active NBA executive would have to think very carefully on the cost/benefits of sticking out their neck for Noel vs. Paul. Brett Brown isn't coaching，so he should be able to speak more freely. Brett Brown s testimony could be key to move the counter suit to trial.
It seems clear to me why Paul wasn't getting back to teams re: Noel. He was too busy negotiating other deals. The fact that other players were involved in similar situations should also help. Since the amounts are probably not huge (is Noel got 3.4 million over two years rather than 10(what he got from NYK last season)) it will get settled out of court.
In all likelihood Noel has already "won" the case. Just making the accusations public will surely cost Paul more than 200k by damaging his reputation.
gradyandrew wrote:Nalod wrote:Read a blog that suggested Leon might have a bone to pick with Paul given how he fucked him splitting from CAA.
Its a nasty business. Its on the UK front page on the right.
Wes might have somthing to say about it too. Nerlens stayed with him for 4 years.
Leon was Lebrons agent until Paul took him with him. The small guys get big, the the little guys under them go Jerry McGuire and leave. Its the jungle.I think this is part of it， but don't forget that this is a counter suit. The original suit alleges that Noel didn't pay Paul 200k from his last contract. It's possible Leon negotiated that deal directly with Noel.
Leon Rose (who was formerly an agent at Creative Artists Agency but then the President of the New York Knicks) reached out about a deal and Noel ultimately signed a 1-year contract for $5 million.That is probably the basis for Noel deciding not to pay Paul (Noel did the work himself). Maybe if Paul had put things in perspective，he would have just let it go. Undoubtedly， he wishes he had now.
Lawyers always tell you to sue for as much as possible. I agree that ultimately the decision to turn down the Dallas offer was Noel's. I don't think a judge/ jury would see that any other way. It does establish a baseline for a charge of incompetence. Also， there's the priceless feeling for Noel of being to turn the conversation from "I can't believe Noel turned the Dallas offer down" to "Rich Paul screwed the pooch on that one."
If Noel can prove he had offers greater than the one's he expected on the table that weren't delivered，Noel should be entitled to the difference in compensation. Brett Brown is an interesting c witness. Any active NBA executive would have to think very carefully on the cost/benefits of sticking out their neck for Noel vs. Paul. Brett Brown isn't coaching，so he should be able to speak more freely. Brett Brown s testimony could be key to move the counter suit to trial.
It seems clear to me why Paul wasn't getting back to teams re: Noel. He was too busy negotiating other deals. The fact that other players were involved in similar situations should also help. Since the amounts are probably not huge (is Noel got 3.4 million over two years rather than 10(what he got from NYK last season)) it will get settled out of court.
In all likelihood Noel has already "won" the case. Just making the accusations public will surely cost Paul more than 200k by damaging his reputation.
Jericho Sims is represented by Rich Paul.
I was amazed and asked my employee "didn't someone around tell him to cash the f**k in?" and no one did! They were all about how he had to go to the end of the bet, that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity... all those guys were average earners and they wouldn't take €75k let alone 109k!
MaTT4281 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Turning down the big contract isn't on Rich Paul. But if he did not return calls or act on behalf of his client than that's different. Naming Brett Brown was big. If he provides some sort of proof than this might have legs. People who read the headline will focus on the contract, but the details of essentially freezing out his own client is the real issue here.I hadn't heard that piece about Brett.
https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/former...
But former Sixers head coach Brett Brown allegedly proved that wasn't the case. In Heitner's report, he notes that Noel initially learned from his former head that the 76ers were reaching out to his representatives during the offseason to try and work out a deal for a reunion. Rich Paul "refused to respond," according to the report.Later on, Noel reportedly found out that was the case with several teams. Over the last few years, Noel has been a free agent twice. Both times, the Sixers were rumored to be linked to the big man as he would've been a stellar backup for the team's MVP finalist Joel Embiid.
Each time Noel was linked to the Sixers but never actually signed, there was never any concrete proof as to whether there was truly an effort to sign Noel or not. While Paul hasn't confirmed or denied wrongdoing on his behalf, the report indicates that the Sixers attempted to form a Nerlens Noel reunion a few years back. Unfortunately, it seems they weren't able to negotiate properly.
If you have actual names and officials who can substantiate that - that's pretty damning. It ended up working out in our favor, but hope Noel gets paid!
Exactly. This case is far more about the negligence than the contract offer he turned down that gets all of the headlines.
Nalod wrote:Read a blog that suggested Leon might have a bone to pick with Paul given how he fucked him splitting from CAA.
Its a nasty business. Its on the UK front page on the right.
Wes might have somthing to say about it too. Nerlens stayed with him for 4 years.
Leon was Lebrons agent until Paul took him with him. The small guys get big, the the little guys under them go Jerry McGuire and leave. Its the jungle.
My understanding is that Rich paul was essentially an understudy for Leon and was given full blessing to branch out with lebron and do their own thing. Not sure if that’s still true today but I believe Leon mentored Rich Paul towards this process.
gradyandrew wrote:
It seems clear to me why Paul wasn't getting back to teams re: Noel. He was too busy negotiating other deals. The fact that other players were involved in similar situations should also help. Since the amounts are probably not huge (is Noel got 3.4 million over two years rather than 10(what he got from NYK last season)) it will get settled out of court.In all likelihood Noel has already "won" the case. Just making the accusations public will surely cost Paul more than 200k by damaging his reputation.
I'm no lawyer, but the bold hopefully isn't used by Paul as a defense. 
He's too busy negotiating other deals, but he's not too busy to sue Noel for $200K?
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No its not hearsay, and this is why its coming out now. Noel learned from Brett Brown that Phili wanted to bring him in and his agent didnt return their calls. THAT is what started this. Noel has evidence.fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:Malpractice exists in many professions where you've essentially hired someone to be your expert or agent. You may want to blame Noel for not taking the extension, but he had Rich Paul+team as trusted advisors and if the advice was you coud make more long haul on the open market by taking the QO he probably followed that believing that was the best strategy. I don't know Rich Paul+firm's motivations, but malpractice could happen for a variety of reasons- de-prioritization, incompetence, poor execution etc. Remember Rich Paul was a guy who was Lebron's buddy who was selling throwback jersey's from the trunk of his car. Not saying Paul hasn't been a good agent/advisor to Lebron+others, but he didn't come into the profession with a law degree or other negotiating background. If Noel was down his list of priorities all this seems pretty plausible. I tend to believe Noel here given he has named specific teams he came to find out later had interest, but never got to the negotiating table with his agents.agree, and its also been a long time. Meaning Noel has since found out teams were trying to reach out on him an Paul wasnt passing that info to Noel? Thats really incredible and nauseating. I know we have one as pres but agents are known for scruples or honorIs this hearsay? Noel guessing? Clients always claim agents are not doing enough and are missing out on possible deals. Do not see why an agent would not follow through on a deal that would result in a commission? This seems motivated by the grievance filed and by some ambulance-chasing attorney in his ear. Paul did nothing wrong as many NBA players are instructed to wait until they are unrestricted. As it improves the overall market for that player. I am sure that Noel knew the risk of injury as it exists in every sport/contract. Noel blaming Paul for an unforeseen injury that created an unfortunate outcome seems like Noel trying to remove any personal responsibility. However, a big firm should have disclosure forms in place where the client is informed of the risks of turning down a guaranteed deal. Would also think that firms this big have notices that clients sign in order to remove the firm's liability in making decisions for the client.
Others coming out with info now would explain the timing. Do not know if in the day to day negotiations, a agent, is obligated to inform client of ALL possible interest or just actual offers. Be they written or oral. Like I said on another post, although one would think Paul should have at least mentioned Sixers to Noel, was it just Paul knowing back up role money would not be something
Noel would consider. Do agree that this, although not criminal, does not look good for Paul. Still think it's mostly lawyer greed motivated and Noel trying to take back a bad decision.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Read a blog that suggested Leon might have a bone to pick with Paul given how he fucked him splitting from CAA.
Its a nasty business. Its on the UK front page on the right.
Wes might have somthing to say about it too. Nerlens stayed with him for 4 years.
Leon was Lebrons agent until Paul took him with him. The small guys get big, the the little guys under them go Jerry McGuire and leave. Its the jungle.My understanding is that Rich paul was essentially an understudy for Leon and was given full blessing to branch out with lebron and do their own thing. Not sure if that’s still true today but I believe Leon mentored Rich Paul towards this process.
That does make sense. Granted, CAA and Klutch might have their own “war” that thats the arena they play in. Leon and Wes are knicks.
It would not be in Leons/Knicks best interests to beef with Klutch/Paul as perhaps there is a conflict. For all we have read about CAA clients, they are not flocking to Knicks just beause Leon is here. CAA does not want to burn bridges. This is why I have pushed back on posts that suggests players then add “Also CAA clients”.
so yeah, I agree that Leon taking sides with Norlens would not be a good idea.
I think Noel wins this and I think Paul is dumb af for going after the commission. He had to know this was a possibility. I don’t think anything could be worse for his brand than this
Stands to reason a commission is not paid does not just go thru the league if a player and agent are still in uniion. Noel at some point fired him. At some point the bill comes due. At some point Noels performance last year and new contract now justifies that he was not washed up and if you have testimony from team or ex team representative then you have the ingredients of a lawsuite. Noels new contact is a source of validity. to what degree is another questions. Obviously he is not a 70mm player, but he far exceeded his last two year to year deal. Not known perhaps was some sort of negotiation of a settlement. Not known to me is do Agents have liability insurance? Noel not gonna get 55mil.
There are conditions by which either side has legs to stand on. Its an expensive exercise for Noel to disgrace Paul. Its not a good look for Paul to have this come about.
More importantly, Noel needs to stop worrying about lawsuits and spend the summer working on his HANDS. Noel has the worst hands of any NBA player I have ever seen. It’s like he’s so used to blocking the ball that he even blocks the ball on offense. He needs to spend 4 hours a day just catching passes in traffic and making a move off of the pass towards the rim.