Knicks · Rokas Jokubaitis alert (page 30)

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the shit show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Good post....For those concerned about his 3 pt shot or lack thereof, keep in mind he is only 21 years and is far from a finished product. Brook Lopez didn't shooting 3's, consistently, until he was 27. If the Knicks are considering making a big move, this is the smart move to make for everything you stated above.

As an asset - bringing Sengun here is a good move for future development and salary/cap control. The proposition was to trade Randle for Sengun and spare parts on the Rockets. IMO that would not be a good move on a team with Championship aspirations. Even not including Randle in a trade would be risky given how Thibs uses centers with a high focus on D.

Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

I'm under the assumption that if Leon and Randle both had the same vision of what Randle's next contract could be with the Knicks, that's the first and best option and they would all do it in a heartbeat. I'd guess that to mean that Randle somehow gets either a 4 year extension or both parties agree on the total number of a 5 year deal that keeps them under the second apron with both Randle and one other move that solidifies the C position. If they both don't share that vision.... After that comes the Sengun hypothetical.

I don't ever envision a different lineup as a 1 to 1 direct tradeoff. If Randle is moved, I don't expect OG to fill the same role that Randle did as you may have suggested above. OG is not the Randle creator replacement, Sengun is. Sengun is not the defensive center Mitch/iHart were, maybe he is the C version of Randle and then we get a very lock down defensive PF who is also a terror as a weakside helper at the rim. That was the playoff lesson learned.

I think Thibs and FO values Net rating over pure rim protection. Thibs has repeatedly told us that Net rating is their highest priority as a team. That's the Sengun tradeoff, he and Brunson with wing wing wing in DDV Mikal OG would provide a hypothetical offensive rating in line with prime GS but which stays above the defensive drop-off. I'd guess that they are making a bet on the long term 3point shot for a 5 out play, it's not unrealistic and they already know Sengun is a very very good midrange guy who can pass out of the high post. That's a lot of room for Brunson.

It's hard to suss out what a trade would be but the Knicks may not need to move Mitch, he would just go to bench and that's a nice role for him considering his injuries and it solves a different problem for the Knicks.

It's not a 1-to-1 but Sengun's next contract is going to start in the range of $35M+. Randle's next contract can start in he $45M+ range. That extra $10M in conjunction with whatever the Knicks spend on Precious and whatnot can then be used with Mitch and Deuce and picks to really return a badass player that you not have been able to get because of second apron.

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

I'm under the assumption that if Leon and Randle both had the same vision of what Randle's next contract could be with the Knicks, that's the first and best option and they would all do it in a heartbeat. I'd guess that to mean that Randle somehow gets either a 4 year extension or both parties agree on the total number of a 5 year deal that keeps them under the second apron with both Randle and one other move that solidifies the C position. If they both don't share that vision.... After that comes the Sengun hypothetical.

I don't ever envision a different lineup as a 1 to 1 direct tradeoff. If Randle is moved, I don't expect OG to fill the same role that Randle did as you may have suggested above. OG is not the Randle creator replacement, Sengun is. Sengun is not the defensive center Mitch/iHart were, maybe he is the C version of Randle and then we get a very lock down defensive PF who is also a terror as a weakside helper at the rim. That was the playoff lesson learned.

I think Thibs and FO values Net rating over pure rim protection. Thibs has repeatedly told us that Net rating is their highest priority as a team. That's the Sengun tradeoff, he and Brunson with wing wing wing in DDV Mikal OG would provide a hypothetical offensive rating in line with prime GS but which stays above the defensive drop-off. I'd guess that they are making a bet on the long term 3point shot for a 5 out play, it's not unrealistic and they already know Sengun is a very very good midrange guy who can pass out of the high post. That's a lot of room for Brunson.

It's hard to suss out what a trade would be but the Knicks may not need to move Mitch, he would just go to bench and that's a nice role for him considering his injuries and it solves a different problem for the Knicks.

It's not a 1-to-1 but Sengun's next contract is going to start in the range of $35M+. Randle's next contract can start in he $45M+ range. That extra $10M in conjunction with whatever the Knicks spend on Precious and whatnot can then be used with Mitch and Deuce and picks to really return a badass player that you not have been able to get because of second apron.

rockets might view Smith/Sengun redundant and won't want to pay both? Looking ahead as well. To turn one of them into a win now quality all star player like Randle is not out of the realm of possibility. At some point its a good business decision to get into the playoffs and Randle is ready now. As said, Smith did really well at the 5 when Sengun went out. They are on record as saying they are not seeking a trade.

Randle also controls the narrative also given his financial demands going forward. We could sign him, then trade him down the road. There is a risk if he gets hurt again.

The chess game to this is also anticipation of the future. Makes no sense to some to trade Randle but facts are things will change, and we have a need now. My fandom is one thing but have to keep an open mind. New players and scenarios do change things. For me it hurt as a fan to see RJ leave but OG killed it and we move forward. IQ was a fan favorite but our winning post trade helped heal the void. Deuce stepped up and Brunson took it to another level.

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

I'm under the assumption that if Leon and Randle both had the same vision of what Randle's next contract could be with the Knicks, that's the first and best option and they would all do it in a heartbeat. I'd guess that to mean that Randle somehow gets either a 4 year extension or both parties agree on the total number of a 5 year deal that keeps them under the second apron with both Randle and one other move that solidifies the C position. If they both don't share that vision.... After that comes the Sengun hypothetical.

I don't ever envision a different lineup as a 1 to 1 direct tradeoff. If Randle is moved, I don't expect OG to fill the same role that Randle did as you may have suggested above. OG is not the Randle creator replacement, Sengun is. Sengun is not the defensive center Mitch/iHart were, maybe he is the C version of Randle and then we get a very lock down defensive PF who is also a terror as a weakside helper at the rim. That was the playoff lesson learned.

I think Thibs and FO values Net rating over pure rim protection. Thibs has repeatedly told us that Net rating is their highest priority as a team. That's the Sengun tradeoff, he and Brunson with wing wing wing in DDV Mikal OG would provide a hypothetical offensive rating in line with prime GS but which stays above the defensive drop-off. I'd guess that they are making a bet on the long term 3point shot for a 5 out play, it's not unrealistic and they already know Sengun is a very very good midrange guy who can pass out of the high post. That's a lot of room for Brunson.

It's hard to suss out what a trade would be but the Knicks may not need to move Mitch, he would just go to bench and that's a nice role for him considering his injuries and it solves a different problem for the Knicks.

It's not a 1-to-1 but Sengun's next contract is going to start in the range of $35M+. Randle's next contract can start in he $45M+ range. That extra $10M in conjunction with whatever the Knicks spend on Precious and whatnot can then be used with Mitch and Deuce and picks to really return a badass player that you not have been able to get because of second apron.

Estimation for the 2nd Apron next season is $208M+. I think Randle in the $45M range keeps the team under the 2nd Apron - but over the First. They would not have much maneuverability but could still use the Taxpayer MLE. For me the issue still comes down to what you are bringing back with Randle in a trade.

Again - as an example - Sengun /Brooks works in a trade for Randle from a cap perspective this season. After that I'll assume Sengun does not exercise an extension and becomes an RFA. If you inflate Sengun's salary to $35M+ in 2025 - you will still also be paying Brooks at $20M+. So unless there is another trade - you won't actually have that extra $10M to maneuver with. In fact you might be tying up $55M (Sengun/Brooks) in salary in 2025 as opposed to $45M for Randle.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

I'm under the assumption that if Leon and Randle both had the same vision of what Randle's next contract could be with the Knicks, that's the first and best option and they would all do it in a heartbeat. I'd guess that to mean that Randle somehow gets either a 4 year extension or both parties agree on the total number of a 5 year deal that keeps them under the second apron with both Randle and one other move that solidifies the C position. If they both don't share that vision.... After that comes the Sengun hypothetical.

I don't ever envision a different lineup as a 1 to 1 direct tradeoff. If Randle is moved, I don't expect OG to fill the same role that Randle did as you may have suggested above. OG is not the Randle creator replacement, Sengun is. Sengun is not the defensive center Mitch/iHart were, maybe he is the C version of Randle and then we get a very lock down defensive PF who is also a terror as a weakside helper at the rim. That was the playoff lesson learned.

I think Thibs and FO values Net rating over pure rim protection. Thibs has repeatedly told us that Net rating is their highest priority as a team. That's the Sengun tradeoff, he and Brunson with wing wing wing in DDV Mikal OG would provide a hypothetical offensive rating in line with prime GS but which stays above the defensive drop-off. I'd guess that they are making a bet on the long term 3point shot for a 5 out play, it's not unrealistic and they already know Sengun is a very very good midrange guy who can pass out of the high post. That's a lot of room for Brunson.

It's hard to suss out what a trade would be but the Knicks may not need to move Mitch, he would just go to bench and that's a nice role for him considering his injuries and it solves a different problem for the Knicks.

It's not a 1-to-1 but Sengun's next contract is going to start in the range of $35M+. Randle's next contract can start in he $45M+ range. That extra $10M in conjunction with whatever the Knicks spend on Precious and whatnot can then be used with Mitch and Deuce and picks to really return a badass player that you not have been able to get because of second apron.

rockets might view Smith/Sengun redundant and won't want to pay both? Looking ahead as well. To turn one of them into a win now quality all star player like Randle is not out of the realm of possibility. At some point its a good business decision to get into the playoffs and Randle is ready now. As said, Smith did really well at the 5 when Sengun went out. They are on record as saying they are not seeking a trade.

Randle also controls the narrative also given his financial demands going forward. We could sign him, then trade him down the road. There is a risk if he gets hurt again.

The chess game to this is also anticipation of the future. Makes no sense to some to trade Randle but facts are things will change, and we have a need now. My fandom is one thing but have to keep an open mind. New players and scenarios do change things. For me it hurt as a fan to see RJ leave but OG killed it and we move forward. IQ was a fan favorite but our winning post trade helped heal the void. Deuce stepped up and Brunson took it to another level.

I am not familiar with Smith, so him playing the 5 is interesting, I thought he would not be strong enough.

I thought Houston was also in the Durant sweepstakes if Suns bomb again. What would Phoenix want and would it parlay with the Knicks and Houston?

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

I'm under the assumption that if Leon and Randle both had the same vision of what Randle's next contract could be with the Knicks, that's the first and best option and they would all do it in a heartbeat. I'd guess that to mean that Randle somehow gets either a 4 year extension or both parties agree on the total number of a 5 year deal that keeps them under the second apron with both Randle and one other move that solidifies the C position. If they both don't share that vision.... After that comes the Sengun hypothetical.

I don't ever envision a different lineup as a 1 to 1 direct tradeoff. If Randle is moved, I don't expect OG to fill the same role that Randle did as you may have suggested above. OG is not the Randle creator replacement, Sengun is. Sengun is not the defensive center Mitch/iHart were, maybe he is the C version of Randle and then we get a very lock down defensive PF who is also a terror as a weakside helper at the rim. That was the playoff lesson learned.

I think Thibs and FO values Net rating over pure rim protection. Thibs has repeatedly told us that Net rating is their highest priority as a team. That's the Sengun tradeoff, he and Brunson with wing wing wing in DDV Mikal OG would provide a hypothetical offensive rating in line with prime GS but which stays above the defensive drop-off. I'd guess that they are making a bet on the long term 3point shot for a 5 out play, it's not unrealistic and they already know Sengun is a very very good midrange guy who can pass out of the high post. That's a lot of room for Brunson.

It's hard to suss out what a trade would be but the Knicks may not need to move Mitch, he would just go to bench and that's a nice role for him considering his injuries and it solves a different problem for the Knicks.

It's not a 1-to-1 but Sengun's next contract is going to start in the range of $35M+. Randle's next contract can start in he $45M+ range. That extra $10M in conjunction with whatever the Knicks spend on Precious and whatnot can then be used with Mitch and Deuce and picks to really return a badass player that you not have been able to get because of second apron.

rockets might view Smith/Sengun redundant and won't want to pay both? Looking ahead as well. To turn one of them into a win now quality all star player like Randle is not out of the realm of possibility. At some point its a good business decision to get into the playoffs and Randle is ready now. As said, Smith did really well at the 5 when Sengun went out. They are on record as saying they are not seeking a trade.

Randle also controls the narrative also given his financial demands going forward. We could sign him, then trade him down the road. There is a risk if he gets hurt again.

The chess game to this is also anticipation of the future. Makes no sense to some to trade Randle but facts are things will change, and we have a need now. My fandom is one thing but have to keep an open mind. New players and scenarios do change things. For me it hurt as a fan to see RJ leave but OG killed it and we move forward. IQ was a fan favorite but our winning post trade helped heal the void. Deuce stepped up and Brunson took it to another level.

I am not familiar with Smith, so him playing the 5 is interesting, I thought he would not be strong enough.

I thought Houston was also in the Durant sweepstakes if Suns bomb again. What would Phoenix want and would it parlay with the Knicks and Houston?

Sengun got hurt and they went on a 9 game winning streak. Then lost 5 and fell out of play in. Smiths numbers jumped. I don't know why they fell out after so hot. Im just looking at what happened as it was illogical to me they would trade him. As said, that is what they are saying also. They won't. Could be they considered and thought the better of it. Maybe they learned of Randles salary demands and did not want to go there. Im just guessing.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

Yes - I get all that. To clarify - when I said Knicks are in "Win-Now" mode - it did not mean for only next season. Their core is locked for the next several years (with the exception of Randle) where barring injury they will be positioned to continue to make a run with or without JR at least IMO. Without Randle (or a good replacement) their chances would be lesser - but I agree that the FO would want to maneuver around Randle's agreement wisely and am aligned with you - in a previous post indicated that his retention or trade would be dictated by the pending financials and cap implications or his upcoming negotiations or demands on extension.

Where you and I seem to differ is regarding Sengun. I agree on his potential (especially on offense) and contract/control. I question 2 things. If Randle was traded, how will that hole be filled and does Sengun fit on D, considering how Thibs deploys centers. I don't believe OG is a perfect fit to replace Randle. He's kind of a hybrid 3/4 and while he can certainly defend the position when called on, I think it takes away some of his value as a rover on D. Perhaps it would be ok with now that Bridges is also here. On offense OG is not the creator that Randle is. Perhaps its being a bit selfish for this upcoming season, but I was so hyped last January that I want to see what this lineup can now do together and would rather just add a complimentary/useful and defensive focused center to spell Mitch's minutes.

In terms of salary cap hit, would have to know all the proposed trade pieces in order to understand the impacts. For instance someone proposed Randle for Sengun and Dillon Brooks. Not sure I would want to carry another wing (Brooks) at ~$20M per over the next 3 seasons.

In terms of going for a Championship. Let's face it, its been over 50 years. I'm not gonna be greedy - I'll take even one good shot at a 'ship.

I'm under the assumption that if Leon and Randle both had the same vision of what Randle's next contract could be with the Knicks, that's the first and best option and they would all do it in a heartbeat. I'd guess that to mean that Randle somehow gets either a 4 year extension or both parties agree on the total number of a 5 year deal that keeps them under the second apron with both Randle and one other move that solidifies the C position. If they both don't share that vision.... After that comes the Sengun hypothetical.

I don't ever envision a different lineup as a 1 to 1 direct tradeoff. If Randle is moved, I don't expect OG to fill the same role that Randle did as you may have suggested above. OG is not the Randle creator replacement, Sengun is. Sengun is not the defensive center Mitch/iHart were, maybe he is the C version of Randle and then we get a very lock down defensive PF who is also a terror as a weakside helper at the rim. That was the playoff lesson learned.

I think Thibs and FO values Net rating over pure rim protection. Thibs has repeatedly told us that Net rating is their highest priority as a team. That's the Sengun tradeoff, he and Brunson with wing wing wing in DDV Mikal OG would provide a hypothetical offensive rating in line with prime GS but which stays above the defensive drop-off. I'd guess that they are making a bet on the long term 3point shot for a 5 out play, it's not unrealistic and they already know Sengun is a very very good midrange guy who can pass out of the high post. That's a lot of room for Brunson.

It's hard to suss out what a trade would be but the Knicks may not need to move Mitch, he would just go to bench and that's a nice role for him considering his injuries and it solves a different problem for the Knicks.

It's not a 1-to-1 but Sengun's next contract is going to start in the range of $35M+. Randle's next contract can start in he $45M+ range. That extra $10M in conjunction with whatever the Knicks spend on Precious and whatnot can then be used with Mitch and Deuce and picks to really return a badass player that you not have been able to get because of second apron.

rockets might view Smith/Sengun redundant and won't want to pay both? Looking ahead as well. To turn one of them into a win now quality all star player like Randle is not out of the realm of possibility. At some point its a good business decision to get into the playoffs and Randle is ready now. As said, Smith did really well at the 5 when Sengun went out. They are on record as saying they are not seeking a trade.

Randle also controls the narrative also given his financial demands going forward. We could sign him, then trade him down the road. There is a risk if he gets hurt again.

The chess game to this is also anticipation of the future. Makes no sense to some to trade Randle but facts are things will change, and we have a need now. My fandom is one thing but have to keep an open mind. New players and scenarios do change things. For me it hurt as a fan to see RJ leave but OG killed it and we move forward. IQ was a fan favorite but our winning post trade helped heal the void. Deuce stepped up and Brunson took it to another level.

I am not familiar with Smith, so him playing the 5 is interesting, I thought he would not be strong enough.

I thought Houston was also in the Durant sweepstakes if Suns bomb again. What would Phoenix want and would it parlay with the Knicks and Houston?

Sengun got hurt and they went on a 9 game winning streak. Then lost 5 and fell out of play in. Smiths numbers jumped. I don't know why they fell out after so hot. Im just looking at what happened as it was illogical to me they would trade him. As said, that is what they are saying also. They won't. Could be they considered and thought the better of it. Maybe they learned of Randles salary demands and did not want to go there. Im just guessing.

The opponents in the win and loss streaks seem to have vastly differing win percentages that may have played into the reason for the streaks. Tanking, resting too

https://www.basketball-reference.com/tea...

martin wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the shit show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Good post....For those concerned about his 3 pt shot or lack thereof, keep in mind he is only 21 years and is far from a finished product. Brook Lopez didn't shooting 3's, consistently, until he was 27. If the Knicks are considering making a big move, this is the smart move to make for everything you stated above.

Why not go for Vucevic, can get him on the cheap...double/double and do the same thing w/o passing as Sengun...defense is not there but if we are talking about KAT and this guy we obviously are not prioritizing defense at the 5 the way we were last yr.

He makes $20M this year and $23M next. How are you getting that player on our team? And how is that cheap?

He is about to be 34yo and hasn't made a significant dent for Chicago in the win column

Speaking specifically about cost to acquire...CHI wants salary dump...but given his deal is 2 yrs ....not sure if juice is worth squeeze

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the shit show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Not trying to put down Sengun. Young big with good potential.
Passing to me is at level of IHart. Just a bit more flashy.
My point is why would we create a hole at PF by trading Randle for a him?
Thought the goal was to fill current needs? Backup Center in case Mitch gets hurt.
Trading for Sengun for Randle would be the FO conceding we need to move on from 2 of our current starters. That seems kind of panicky from a team thought to have just made a move to complete a roster that will challenge the Celts?

Now if we like Sengun so much, I propose Mitch, Deuce, draft pick for Segun and salary filler.
That seems more roster positive. Or a home run of says Precious or Deuce plus draft picks for Sengun. That is a lot better than some of the medias ridiculous talk of KAT.

I think defensive assignments are going to be OG on the Best 3, 4 or 5. Bridges on the best 1, 2 or 3. And then the rest fill in the blanks. Then in a 4-1 offense you need a passing big. You could lineup Brunson, DDV, Bridges, Anunoby and a center without missing a defensive assignment against 80% of the league. I even think Randle could play that role as the pivot to the extent OG can defend the C on the other side of the floor. Or Mitch Robinson could just learn to pass.

So would we trade for Sengun?
Defensively, my contention since losing IHart is that Randle, as it stands will get a lot of backup 5 minutes. With Josh getting a lot of back up 4 minutes.
If we look at the Indiana series, it showed we needed Mitch more than a good passing big at the pivot(IHart)

I think Sengun would be a solid trade target despite my other comments. Doubt we have the assets for it without giving up Randle and Randle could play that same role in the offense. Sengun n would correct the positional size issue at Center. Randle at the 5 could let you potentially do a 5 out in certain instances. His 3pt is volatile. But can punish you from certain parts of the court.

I’m still in a wait and see mode on Randle. Only a couple guys I would really go after. For instance, I think JJJ, like Bridges, had a really bad year trying to be a primary scoring option. If we could unlock JJJ, I might do that, but would have to replace Randle’s passing in the starting lineup.

Understand.

Jackson is a beast and has a lot of potential.
Issue I keep bringing up is why are the Knicks going to take a chance on possible future studs if they are so close the way they are? Seems like we want to win now and the FO is pretty confident that the roster they have put together, Randle a big part of that, and from what they saw last January and the addition of Bridges, they should feel they are real close. Why trade one of their top players and risk bringing in a youngin with potential? Especially. Seeing how much Thibs trust the young ones.

Don’t see it. Despite all the click bait. And all those that feel Randle is why we have not won a chip.

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Solid game.

EwingsGlass wrote:

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Solid game.

KnickDanger wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Solid game.

Played a little D apparently. Nice size - tough enough for when he gets mugged going to the hoop?

I was able to watch the game and he doesn’t come across as a PG but more of a scoring combo guard. He can get to his spots and both his pull-up jumper and catch and shoot abilities look strong. He looks like an nba player, just not a PG.

Knixkik wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Solid game.

Played a little D apparently. Nice size - tough enough for when he gets mugged going to the hoop?

I was able to watch the game and he doesn’t come across as a PG but more of a scoring combo guard. He can get to his spots and both his pull-up jumper and catch and shoot abilities look strong. He looks like an nba player, just not a PG.

I agree, that he's more of a combo. But I think he did job manipulating the defense. I've seen enough from him in FIBA to say he can play PG.

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Sorry but Rokas is just the poster child for Knick fans making more of something than it really is.
Shout out Baker, Frank and King Wroten!
Rokas played well yesterday. But you know you played better? A first year second rounder.
One that has no ties to wanting to play in Europe.
My new suggestion for thread topic is “Tyler Kolek alert”
Just seems silly to talk about this kid who is now in his third summer league.

By the way, you forgot to pay the Rokus posting fee.

HofstraBBall wrote:

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Sorry but Rokas is just the poster child for Knick fans making more of something than it really is.
Shout out Baker, Frank and King Wroten!
Rokas played well yesterday. But you know you played better? A first year second rounder.
One that has no ties to wanting to play in Europe.
My new suggestion for thread topic is “Tyler Kolek alert”
Just seems silly to talk about this kid who is now in his third summer league.

By the way, you forgot to pay the Rokus posting fee.

Not getting worked up, but Joku had a solid game. 7/7. It’s worth a little daydream.

Kolek is already under contract, so no daydream required.

Kolek posted a team low -14 Plus/Minus yesterday. Joku had a +6. Kolek hit the game winner. Awesome moment, but would have been -17 without that shot and free throw? It’s summer league and small sample sets mean very little. Looking back to the Nets, team low -18 plus minus (Joku, +6). Charlotte he had a team high +9,(Joku -6)

Now, I’m not blaming anyone or anything for 3 games of summer league, but it’s worth looking at why the team is getting out scored so badly while Kolek is on the floor and is outscoring opponents while Joku is on the floor. Need more info to make any judgments. But let’s call off any parades for a little bit.

I do think Joku would be productive and I do thing he could potentially beat out McBride for minutes. But I think he would need to play behind McBride for this year and get the timing and sets down. I’m in favor of bringing him over.

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Sorry but Rokas is just the poster child for Knick fans making more of something than it really is.
Shout out Baker, Frank and King Wroten!
Rokas played well yesterday. But you know you played better? A first year second rounder.
One that has no ties to wanting to play in Europe.
My new suggestion for thread topic is “Tyler Kolek alert”
Just seems silly to talk about this kid who is now in his third summer league.

By the way, you forgot to pay the Rokus posting fee.

Not getting worked up, but Joku had a solid game. 7/7. It’s worth a little daydream.

Kolek is already under contract, so no daydream required.

Kolek posted a team low -14 Plus/Minus yesterday. Joku had a +6. Kolek hit the game winner. Awesome moment, but would have been -17 without that shot and free throw? It’s summer league and small sample sets mean very little. Looking back to the Nets, team low -18 plus minus (Joku, +6). Charlotte he had a team high +9,(Joku -6)

Now, I’m not blaming anyone or anything for 3 games of summer league, but it’s worth looking at why the team is getting out scored so badly while Kolek is on the floor and is outscoring opponents while Joku is on the floor. Need more info to make any judgments. But let’s call off any parades for a little bit.

I do think Joku would be productive and I do thing he could potentially beat out McBride for minutes. But I think he would need to play behind McBride for this year and get the timing and sets down. I’m in favor of bringing him over.

Don’t think he is a bad player. Just not a top 9 player on a playoff team.
His problem has also been athleticism. Good for being okay in Euro league but nowhere near NBA impact level. May be Kolek’s problem as well.
Unfortunately, with most young guys who are borderline NBA players, as we have seen, the book has already been written . It’s hard enough for the guys who are top 20 prospects to make it. Reason why draft is a crap shoot.

Wish Rokas luck. It will be in Europe.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

VDesai wrote:Get back on topic guys, Rokas is good again

Sorry but Rokas is just the poster child for Knick fans making more of something than it really is.
Shout out Baker, Frank and King Wroten!
Rokas played well yesterday. But you know you played better? A first year second rounder.
One that has no ties to wanting to play in Europe.
My new suggestion for thread topic is “Tyler Kolek alert”
Just seems silly to talk about this kid who is now in his third summer league.

By the way, you forgot to pay the Rokus posting fee.

Not getting worked up, but Joku had a solid game. 7/7. It’s worth a little daydream.

Kolek is already under contract, so no daydream required.

Kolek posted a team low -14 Plus/Minus yesterday. Joku had a +6. Kolek hit the game winner. Awesome moment, but would have been -17 without that shot and free throw? It’s summer league and small sample sets mean very little. Looking back to the Nets, team low -18 plus minus (Joku, +6). Charlotte he had a team high +9,(Joku -6)

Now, I’m not blaming anyone or anything for 3 games of summer league, but it’s worth looking at why the team is getting out scored so badly while Kolek is on the floor and is outscoring opponents while Joku is on the floor. Need more info to make any judgments. But let’s call off any parades for a little bit.

I do think Joku would be productive and I do thing he could potentially beat out McBride for minutes. But I think he would need to play behind McBride for this year and get the timing and sets down. I’m in favor of bringing him over.

Don’t think he is a bad player. Just not a top 9 player on a playoff team.
His problem has also been athleticism. Good for being okay in Euro league but nowhere near NBA impact level. May be Kolek’s problem as well.
Unfortunately, with most young guys who are borderline NBA players, as we have seen, the book has already been written . It’s hard enough for the guys who are top 20 prospects to make it. Reason why draft is a crap shoot.

Wish Rokas luck. It will be in Europe.

I want to believe you are wrong and that his skills make up for it. You are more likely right. I'd prefer to think he is Doncic-lite for the time being.

HofstraBBall wrote:

I approve this message.

ToddTT wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

I approve this message.

Ignore this Hofstra. Bot's just trying to push his workload off on you.