Knicks · Kemba and Rose - platoon, but specific roles (page 2)
Kemba will be the same, he's just gotta learn the squad a bit better and he will. He's a high IQ player
ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.
No he’s definitely lost a step
ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.
He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod, question:
A few year backs i seem to recall a lot of 'Derrick Rose is done' chatter. Injuries robbed him of his athleticism and he'd never be a positive contributor to a contending NBA team again.
Do you recall that chatter?
Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod, question:
A few year backs i seem to recall a lot of 'Derrick Rose is done' chatter. Injuries robbed him of his athleticism and he'd never be a positive contributor to a contending NBA team again.
Do you recall that chatter?
Yes. And they are all true. He had a few awful injuries and needed substantial time off and then mental adjustment to the actualization that he will never be the same. He had a few major procedures.
We not talking the same injuries and no two are the same. You not remembering the rock bottom of all this? A player in misery?
No, Kemba won’t have the same issues becuase his issues are not the same.
There is an expectation and hope and seemingly few of us how forgot how Kemba got here and the reality. All we got was how pumped he is to be with family and how the press is asleep on us and thats plain hate.
No, its just a reminder of what the expectations really are based on facts. Can he exceed? Sure. Is it medically impossible? No. But is it foolish to not see it? Maybe.
IM a lot of thing, but im not into this fairy tales and Unicorn pretending bullshyt.
Drose got traded here from a shyt team for Dennis Smith Jr. Both were free agents. Derose is fragile. He comes off the bench and his shot looks off. His lift is not theere.
Kemba Looks great for 8-9 mil player. But What of the next 80 games and playoffs? I hope he plays them all and kicks ass. But will he?
Nalod wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod, question:
A few year backs i seem to recall a lot of 'Derrick Rose is done' chatter. Injuries robbed him of his athleticism and he'd never be a positive contributor to a contending NBA team again.
Do you recall that chatter?
Yes. And they are all true. He had a few awful injuries and needed substantial time off and then mental adjustment to the actualization that he will never be the same. He had a few major procedures.
We not talking the same injuries and no two are the same. You not remembering the rock bottom of all this? A player in misery?
No, Kemba won’t have the same issues becuase his issues are not the same.
There is an expectation and hope and seemingly few of us how forgot how Kemba got here and the reality. All we got was how pumped he is to be with family and how the press is asleep on us and thats plain hate.
No, its just a reminder of what the expectations really are based on facts. Can he exceed? Sure. Is it medically impossible? No. But is it foolish to not see it? Maybe.
IM a lot of thing, but im not into this fairy tales and Unicorn pretending bullshyt.
Drose got traded here from a shyt team for Dennis Smith Jr. Both were free agents. Derose is fragile. He comes off the bench and his shot looks off. His lift is not theere.
Kemba Looks great for 8-9 mil player. But What of the next 80 games and playoffs? I hope he plays them all and kicks ass. But will he?
I don't know if he will.
Neither do you.
Is the point.
Sports fans have irrational confidence in making brand new assumptions and predictions when almost universally their rate of success of their past assumptions and predictions suck.
Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod, question:
A few year backs i seem to recall a lot of 'Derrick Rose is done' chatter. Injuries robbed him of his athleticism and he'd never be a positive contributor to a contending NBA team again.
Do you recall that chatter?
Truth is Drose never returned to his former self but found success as a lessor player in a role.
If Kemba can do that it would be great. But seemingly some of us are thinking Kemba is “Cured”.
Kemba as a starter
And D.Rose as the Knicks FINISHER !!!
Nalod wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod, question:
A few year backs i seem to recall a lot of 'Derrick Rose is done' chatter. Injuries robbed him of his athleticism and he'd never be a positive contributor to a contending NBA team again.
Do you recall that chatter?
Truth is Drose never returned to his former self but found success as a lessor player in a role.
If Kemba can do that it would be great. But seemingly some of us are thinking Kemba is “Cured”.
Are some of us??
Ummmm, have you read this thread?
Seems like some of us is none of us.
Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:I have watched Kemba play since the Big East. I agree that at moments it looks like he lost a step. But I really think it could be an aberration.He got dumped and then bought out. For the 2 years 18mm we are paying him its well worth the cost. That knee is shit. Charlotte let him walk. WE all love kemba and root for his success, but there is a reality that is not some fairytale miracle cure.
Nalod, question:
A few year backs i seem to recall a lot of 'Derrick Rose is done' chatter. Injuries robbed him of his athleticism and he'd never be a positive contributor to a contending NBA team again.
Do you recall that chatter?
Truth is Drose never returned to his former self but found success as a lessor player in a role.
If Kemba can do that it would be great. But seemingly some of us are thinking Kemba is “Cured”.Are some of us??
Ummmm, have you read this thread?
Seems like some of us is none of us.
Lot of hype coming from the pages of the UK as excitement the last few weeks about Kemba and knicks not given love by oddsmakers. In this thread your correct.
I think Kemba as give a promise to start and make good. I think Drose is good in most scenarios but both need minutes as neither are whole anymore.
The reality of his defense and offensive inconsistency from the last few years will now make sense as to why charlotte let him walk, and boston dumped him earning a buyout.
Thibs will work Kemba thru and his role/minutes will be measured and perhaps made efficient at some level. This is Iq’s job to take. Same for McBride. The door is open but they have to earn it first.
knicks1248 wrote:Trying to figure out if TT just has more trust in Rose, or is his starting PG only worthy of bench minutes.
TT is also trying to figure things out. Drose earned his finishig role by performing last season. IQ also when hot got to say and finish. Kemba has earned his opportunity and perhaps that window with a promise to start when he signed.
But he has to earn his keep and Thibs will play who gives the best chance to win. That was have seen time and time again.
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Trying to figure out if TT just has more trust in Rose, or is his starting PG only worthy of bench minutes.TT is also trying to figure things out. Drose earned his finishig role by performing last season. IQ also when hot got to say and finish. Kemba has earned his opportunity and perhaps that window with a promise to start when he signed.
But he has to earn his keep and Thibs will play who gives the best chance to win. That was have seen time and time again.
Agree. Also, think that TT goes with guys that have it going. Problem is, sometimes he does not allow all the players to do so. He is also extremely comfortable with guys that have played with him in the past. The noise about Kemba is short-sighted. Except for the injury concerns. He is elite. However, it takes a PG more than 4 games to figure out when to look for his and when to set up others on a new team. Kemba will figure it out and I think will be more offensive-minded as the season goes on. If healthy, he will make us a much better team.
HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Trying to figure out if TT just has more trust in Rose, or is his starting PG only worthy of bench minutes.TT is also trying to figure things out. Drose earned his finishig role by performing last season. IQ also when hot got to say and finish. Kemba has earned his opportunity and perhaps that window with a promise to start when he signed.
But he has to earn his keep and Thibs will play who gives the best chance to win. That was have seen time and time again.Agree. Also, think that TT goes with guys that have it going. Problem is, sometimes he does not allow all the players to do so. He is also extremely comfortable with guys that have played with him in the past. The noise about Kemba is short-sighted. Except for the injury concerns. He is elite. However, it takes a PG more than 4 games to figure out when to look for his and when to set up others on a new team. Kemba will figure it out and I think will be more offensive-minded as the season goes on. If healthy, he will make us a much better team.
I get it. Im just not ignoring the sequence of events that Got Kemba on our doorstep for 2 years @18mm.
And there was little evidence that DRose would get his head together after his first season in NY under Phil. To entirely different scenarios.
4 games in, im enjoying the hell out of this but not ignoring the fragile state of those two guys and the age gap between them and the core of our team. Love Alec Burks too, but lets be real, we have got to get IQ, Grimes and Duece developed and perhaps look at the draft/trade into the future.
The wild card for contending THIS YEAR is on RJ. Then sustaining is on the health of Kemba/Rose. Fornier was a a great pickup given his age, contract, and the time line.
One season at a time………….Drose won over the fans big time and we adore Kemba. Thats good enough for now and they are playing well. Kemba has more upside due to chemistry with his new team but if not for the knee………..
Well, if not for the knee he’d perhaps either still be in charlotte or Boston!
Nalod wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Trying to figure out if TT just has more trust in Rose, or is his starting PG only worthy of bench minutes.TT is also trying to figure things out. Drose earned his finishig role by performing last season. IQ also when hot got to say and finish. Kemba has earned his opportunity and perhaps that window with a promise to start when he signed.
But he has to earn his keep and Thibs will play who gives the best chance to win. That was have seen time and time again.Agree. Also, think that TT goes with guys that have it going. Problem is, sometimes he does not allow all the players to do so. He is also extremely comfortable with guys that have played with him in the past. The noise about Kemba is short-sighted. Except for the injury concerns. He is elite. However, it takes a PG more than 4 games to figure out when to look for his and when to set up others on a new team. Kemba will figure it out and I think will be more offensive-minded as the season goes on. If healthy, he will make us a much better team.
I get it. Im just not ignoring the sequence of events that Got Kemba on our doorstep for 2 years @18mm.
And there was little evidence that DRose would get his head together after his first season in NY under Phil. To entirely different scenarios.
4 games in, im enjoying the hell out of this but not ignoring the fragile state of those two guys and the age gap between them and the core of our team. Love Alec Burks too, but lets be real, we have got to get IQ, Grimes and Duece developed and perhaps look at the draft/trade into the future.The wild card for contending THIS YEAR is on RJ. Then sustaining is on the health of Kemba/Rose. Fornier was a a great pickup given his age, contract, and the time line.
One season at a time………….Drose won over the fans big time and we adore Kemba. Thats good enough for now and they are playing well. Kemba has more upside due to chemistry with his new team but if not for the knee………..
Well, if not for the knee he’d perhaps either still be in charlotte or Boston!
Nalod, I think that last sentence is your entire premise - Charlotte or Boston didn't keep him, so therefore...
With 'therefore' being conclusive and written in ink.
No reason to play that game.
Someone who comes immediately to mind is Justin Verlander, who nobody wanted at the trade deadline in 2017. He passed through waivers and the astros finally traded for him a month later when the tigers agreed to pay part of his salary.
Verlander was thought to be on a downward trajectory that season.
You can write all the words you want about what you view as what happens next.
Just like 10's of thousands of words were written a year ago based on the commonly held wisdom the Knicks were a 20-ish win team.
Conventional wisdom was wrong.
Let's let Kemba Walker inform us who Kemba Walker is.
Not that he can't be that good if the Celtics didn't want him.
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I'm no expert, but shouldn't the + be lower than the - on that scale? 
Knickoftime wrote:Nalod wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Trying to figure out if TT just has more trust in Rose, or is his starting PG only worthy of bench minutes.TT is also trying to figure things out. Drose earned his finishig role by performing last season. IQ also when hot got to say and finish. Kemba has earned his opportunity and perhaps that window with a promise to start when he signed.
But he has to earn his keep and Thibs will play who gives the best chance to win. That was have seen time and time again.Agree. Also, think that TT goes with guys that have it going. Problem is, sometimes he does not allow all the players to do so. He is also extremely comfortable with guys that have played with him in the past. The noise about Kemba is short-sighted. Except for the injury concerns. He is elite. However, it takes a PG more than 4 games to figure out when to look for his and when to set up others on a new team. Kemba will figure it out and I think will be more offensive-minded as the season goes on. If healthy, he will make us a much better team.
I get it. Im just not ignoring the sequence of events that Got Kemba on our doorstep for 2 years @18mm.
And there was little evidence that DRose would get his head together after his first season in NY under Phil. To entirely different scenarios.
4 games in, im enjoying the hell out of this but not ignoring the fragile state of those two guys and the age gap between them and the core of our team. Love Alec Burks too, but lets be real, we have got to get IQ, Grimes and Duece developed and perhaps look at the draft/trade into the future.The wild card for contending THIS YEAR is on RJ. Then sustaining is on the health of Kemba/Rose. Fornier was a a great pickup given his age, contract, and the time line.
One season at a time………….Drose won over the fans big time and we adore Kemba. Thats good enough for now and they are playing well. Kemba has more upside due to chemistry with his new team but if not for the knee………..
Well, if not for the knee he’d perhaps either still be in charlotte or Boston!Nalod, I think that last sentence is your entire premise - Charlotte or Boston didn't keep him, so therefore...
With 'therefore' being conclusive and written in ink.
No reason to play that game.
Someone who comes immediately to mind is Justin Verlander, who nobody wanted at the trade deadline in 2017. He passed through waivers and the astros finally traded for him a month later when the tigers agreed to pay part of his salary.
Verlander was thought to be on a downward trajectory that season.
You can write all the words you want about what you view as what happens next.
Just like 10's of thousands of words were written a year ago based on the commonly held wisdom the Knicks were a 20-ish win team.
Conventional wisdom was wrong.
Let's let Kemba Walker inform us who Kemba Walker is.
Not that he can't be that good if the Celtics didn't want him.
Did Verlander left detroit was it because he had a massive salary and they were rebuilding? Thats a different story than a team that did not want to resign him fearing his arthritic knee would not hold up and they were rebuilding.
Boston, a team with a core saw him as a finishing piece and signed him.
After two seasons they dumped him becuase of his knee.
Not my words, but the games he missed and a chronic medical condition. Your saying he can resurrect himself? LIke Drose? Ok, and they platoon? Thats different.
Now, would you have traded for Kembas salary from Boston even if the 16th pick came back? I doubt it. But we did not have to. Why? He got bought out. Why? Science. Arthritic knee.
Can he beat it? Yes, it can happen. Maybe treatments from Eastern Europe, maybe God? Maybe some old fashioned love.
I won't argue this. Do I hope he playes 65+ games and kicks ass. I certainly hope so. I love the guy.
Justin Verlander Did not pitch this season after tommy john surgery. Astros got two good seasons out of him. He resigned for two years, 66mil. He made one start in two seasons since. Not good.
Astro's were contending and they had the abilty to get him and it worked great. I hope this is a good comp and Kemba helps us as a finishing piece to contend. I dont' see us as that good but I'll be loud and proud if we are.
Its not like the celtics had any medical information or anything? right?
smackeddog wrote:The reason I think it’s going to be a bumpy start to the season, is the team’s more complex than last years- last year we were very limited in terms of roles and options, this year we have so many options, it’s going to take time to work out the pecking order- should hopefully pay off further down the line!
I think the roles were identify during training camp, and you can tell by the ball movement