Knicks · I heard a poster talk about patience (page 1)

What are we being patient with?
The body language and energy of unit 1 is disgusting. To me they dont have it--not in a way that will be consistent.

The GS Warriors are 11-1 smoking teams and they play primarily with no C. Do we really need a C for 48 minutes every night? Cant we mix and match smaller lineups to play faster?
Somehow we need to inject more obi(IQ and Obi are the best energy players)

I think we have some of the players we need to be good.

But so far Thibs has not got the line ups down. Also Leon Rose gets a fart grade for Fourmier. Kemba is OK but also not the answer.

Free Grimes extended Obis minutes. and do what Jim Calhoun would do Barrett Fourmier or even Randle if their body language and energy suck--sit them. No ones good enough not to play hardy

After 5 games you wanted IQ benched, 5 games later you made a thread calling for him to be made starter. Yet still you find the concept of patience outrageous.

Briggs, we’re simply not that good.

My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.

Walker’s signing doesn’t look like a deal, it looks like an over pay. Dude should be on a vet min deal and on the bench for use in an emergency/desperation. He has 10 minutes max of impact which you may or may not get any given night.

I think Thibs has to go Larry Brown on this Knick roster and try some different combos.

If you don’t want to start Rose, try Grimes.

We’re not as good as our record is and as we play more games, we prove it.

With teams like Miami, the Wizards, the Bulls & Toronto all making big improvements in the off season, I could see us missing the play offs altogether.

And could we see Sims? I just don’t think Robinson is anywhere near being in game shape. He’s definitely soldiering on which you have to appreciate, but it doesn’t look right. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has some undiagnosed condition that is preventing him from getting into shape like maybe he has long covid, an enlarged heart or something.

Grimes has played a total of 4.5 minutes in 4 appearences.
The notion of change = improvement is suggested when things are not going well, but its not always the case.
If Q has earned an audition thats fine but there has to be an order to it and a fit.
Whose place does he take and what is he doing that elevates the team?

“I heard a poster talk about patience”………Briggs is bugging our house? Or “I read a poster implore patience but I read Thibs is not buying it and I am starting my own thread of the day which makes me then more accurate so read my new thread”.
Larry Browns 23 win knick season/roster was a dysfunctional mess from day one. This team started well and is now has chemistry issues. I suppose as fans we suppose to have answers? Thibs, the bank of coaches and analytic guys don’t have it, but Briggs does?
Maybe he is right. Maybe humiliation of pro’s like Calhoun did with UCONN college kids is the answer, or give the rookie his due is te answer, or keep throwing out suggestions until they do one then stand with boastful pride if it works as if……………

Well, thats better than Nalod just sitting on his ass commenting on it and not making suggestions? Maybe. Im not helping the cause. Actually im sort of the historian type that likes to discuss many range of things, not just the tightness in my chest due to the starting unit.

Im patient because usually panic rookie inclusions rarely work. Love me some Linsanity “a star is born” type thing as much as the next guy.

Nalod wrote:Grimes has played a total of 4.5 minutes in 4 appearences.
The notion of change = improvement is suggested when things are not going well, but its not always the case.
If Q has earned an audition thats fine but there has to be an order to it and a fit.
Whose place does he take and what is he doing that elevates the team?

“I heard a poster talk about patience”………Briggs is bugging our house? Or “I read a poster implore patience but I read Thibs is not buying it and I am starting my own thread of the day which makes me then more accurate so read my new thread”.
Larry Browns 23 win knick season/roster was a dysfunctional mess from day one. This team started well and is now has chemistry issues. I suppose as fans we suppose to have answers? Thibs, the bank of coaches and analytic guys don’t have it, but Briggs does?
Maybe he is right. Maybe humiliation of pro’s like Calhoun did with UCONN college kids is the answer, or give the rookie his due is te answer, or keep throwing out suggestions until they do one then stand with boastful pride if it works as if……………

Well, thats better than Nalod just sitting on his ass commenting on it and not making suggestions? Maybe. Im not helping the cause. Actually im sort of the historian type that likes to discuss many range of things, not just the tightness in my chest due to the starting unit.

Im patient because usually panic rookie inclusions rarely work. Love me some Linsanity “a star is born” type thing as much as the next guy.

there is room for action between patient and panic. I don't think Briggs or anyone is suggesting we panic, but we'd like to maybe see some move to try to stir things up.

We can't ostrich our way to a starting line up fix.

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes has played a total of 4.5 minutes in 4 appearences.
The notion of change = improvement is suggested when things are not going well, but its not always the case.
If Q has earned an audition thats fine but there has to be an order to it and a fit.
Whose place does he take and what is he doing that elevates the team?

“I heard a poster talk about patience”………Briggs is bugging our house? Or “I read a poster implore patience but I read Thibs is not buying it and I am starting my own thread of the day which makes me then more accurate so read my new thread”.
Larry Browns 23 win knick season/roster was a dysfunctional mess from day one. This team started well and is now has chemistry issues. I suppose as fans we suppose to have answers? Thibs, the bank of coaches and analytic guys don’t have it, but Briggs does?
Maybe he is right. Maybe humiliation of pro’s like Calhoun did with UCONN college kids is the answer, or give the rookie his due is te answer, or keep throwing out suggestions until they do one then stand with boastful pride if it works as if……………

Well, thats better than Nalod just sitting on his ass commenting on it and not making suggestions? Maybe. Im not helping the cause. Actually im sort of the historian type that likes to discuss many range of things, not just the tightness in my chest due to the starting unit.

Im patient because usually panic rookie inclusions rarely work. Love me some Linsanity “a star is born” type thing as much as the next guy.

there is room for action between patient and panic. I don't think Briggs or anyone is suggesting we panic, but we'd like to maybe see some move to try to stir things up.

We can't ostrich our way to a starting line up fix.

100%. Were 16% into the season— a good sample size. I think we’ve all seen material inconsistency from many players. Time to choose an alternate route— time to shake things up. We are still 7/6 but we’re a lucky 7-6.
Maybe put Fournier on unit 2 and Burks into unit 1. Extend obis minutes cut Randle to 32. Cut the center position to 30 min— give Grimes 18-20. Many things we can do— status quo is not working. Or we can be patient and stay inconsistent.

BRIGGS wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes has played a total of 4.5 minutes in 4 appearences.
The notion of change = improvement is suggested when things are not going well, but its not always the case.
If Q has earned an audition thats fine but there has to be an order to it and a fit.
Whose place does he take and what is he doing that elevates the team?

“I heard a poster talk about patience”………Briggs is bugging our house? Or “I read a poster implore patience but I read Thibs is not buying it and I am starting my own thread of the day which makes me then more accurate so read my new thread”.
Larry Browns 23 win knick season/roster was a dysfunctional mess from day one. This team started well and is now has chemistry issues. I suppose as fans we suppose to have answers? Thibs, the bank of coaches and analytic guys don’t have it, but Briggs does?
Maybe he is right. Maybe humiliation of pro’s like Calhoun did with UCONN college kids is the answer, or give the rookie his due is te answer, or keep throwing out suggestions until they do one then stand with boastful pride if it works as if……………

Well, thats better than Nalod just sitting on his ass commenting on it and not making suggestions? Maybe. Im not helping the cause. Actually im sort of the historian type that likes to discuss many range of things, not just the tightness in my chest due to the starting unit.

Im patient because usually panic rookie inclusions rarely work. Love me some Linsanity “a star is born” type thing as much as the next guy.

there is room for action between patient and panic. I don't think Briggs or anyone is suggesting we panic, but we'd like to maybe see some move to try to stir things up.

We can't ostrich our way to a starting line up fix.

100%. Were 16% into the season— a good sample size. I think we’ve all seen material inconsistency from many players. Time to choose an alternate route— time to shake things up. We are still 7/6 but we’re a lucky 7-6.
Maybe put Fournier on unit 2 and Burks into unit 1. Extend obis minutes cut Randle to 32. Cut the center position to 30 min— give Grimes 18-20. Many things we can do— status quo is not working. Or we can be patient and stay inconsistent.

Its not a question of patience or not, its a question of going with what you know until you know something else. Thibs said it the other day he won’t let the season slip and something has to be done.
It could very well be changing up things. Its part of the intrigue and be fun to behold.
Personally I’d like to see Knox get some minutes at the 3 and move RJ to the 2 if Evan’s minutes are being eaten. But pulling out of the starting lineup to the second creates other issues.
The chess game is facinationg, wish we could sit in on coaches meetings and hear the debates amung them.

We are not the Warriors and we do not have Steph Curry. This season is playing exactly as expected.

Bring up the G League team and start them with the rookies I say.

SergioNYK wrote:We are not the Warriors and we do not have Steph Curry. This season is playing exactly as expected.

I think me And 95% of Knicks favs expected continuation and improvement Anything less stinks

I think it's fair to say a few things at this point. We struggle to hold leads and sustain a high energy level when teams respond. It's one thing to not shoot well or struggle for reasonable reasons (eg Mitch looks rusty and may be working his way into game shape but is playing b/c of injuries) - but I think a big chunk goes back to Randle and Thibs needing to adjust the offense. This iso heavy game Randle plays completely kills the energy IMO. We saw this (slightly different circumstances) with Melo after PJ joined - and in today's game the majority of teams play much faster. Randle is needed as there are times when the game slows down and halfcourt sets can decide games. Either Randle needs to start taking B12 shots and drinking Jolt soda every quarter or we have to get Toppin and other youth in the game to offset his antiquated offensive style. D'Antoni principles still work these days with early offense and either driving, shooting or moving the ball immediately. One of the reasons I like Toppin (despite deficiencies) is he makes quick decisions which keeps the flow.

These Knicks remind me of the Giants in their glory days when their line would try to control the pace of the game - except we're not good enough to do it much of the time. Thibs has his work cut out for him for sure.

BRIGGS wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:We are not the Warriors and we do not have Steph Curry. This season is playing exactly as expected.

I think me And 95% of Knicks favs expected continuation and improvement Anything less stinks

You said you expected 60 wins!!!!😂

Move IQ to the starting unit. Place Grimes as the backup shooting guard. Problem solved. IQ gives you the same scoring ability as Kemba with much better defense. Grimes brings more defense to the second unit. Come up with a fake injury for Kemba and let him sit for 10 games and see how it goes. I know it is harsh but Kemba is not bringing it and his lack of defense is hurting the team. The next thing is to tell Randle to quit the ball stopping. Implement a 3 second rule. Once you get the ball, you have 3-seconds to either shoot, pass, or drive. These changes should fix our problems.

TheGame wrote:Move IQ to the starting unit. Place Grimes as the backup shooting guard. Problem solved. IQ gives you the same scoring ability as Kemba with much better defense. Grimes brings more defense to the second unit. Come up with a fake injury for Kemba and let him sit for 10 games and see how it goes. I know it is harsh but Kemba is not bringing it and his lack of defense is hurting the team. The next thing is to tell Randle to quit the ball stopping. Implement a 3 second rule. Once you get the ball, you have 3-seconds to either shoot, pass, or drive. These changes should fix our problems.

I'm not sure if Grimes or McBride should get the nod in that scenario. I think McBride, at least in SL, was the more impactful defender and shot creator. My concern with IQ in the starting line up is that it might empower Julius even more to dominate the ball. Maybe they should try using Evan more as an initiator? It might get him going and improve ball movement.

What exactly is our offense? It’s just guys standing around the perimeter. There is no movement, no screens, no picks.

I’d like to see Fournier run screens like Reggie Miller, side to side, back and forth.

We are so easy to defend.

With Mitch & Toppin, we should be trying to get them at least 10 easy shots a game. Don’t tell me it can’t be done.

And why do we continue to struggle against the zone like a JV HS team?

franco12 wrote:What exactly is our offense? It’s just guys standing around the perimeter. There is no movement, no screens, no picks.

I’d like to see Fournier run screens like Reggie Miller, side to side, back and forth.

We are so easy to defend.

With Mitch & Toppin, we should be trying to get them at least 10 easy shots a game. Don’t tell me it can’t be done.

And why do we continue to struggle against the zone like a JV HS team?

Way too much ISO with Randle accompanied by stop and pop with Kemba

ISO is always easy to defend and you’re essentially giving the opposing D a rest since 4 of their guys are just standing around waiting to rebound. Stop and pop only works if Kemba is hitting his shots

franco12 wrote:Briggs, we’re simply not that good.

My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.

Walker’s signing doesn’t look like a deal, it looks like an over pay. Dude should be on a vet min deal and on the bench for use in an emergency/desperation. He has 10 minutes max of impact which you may or may not get any given night.

I think Thibs has to go Larry Brown on this Knick roster and try some different combos.

If you don’t want to start Rose, try Grimes.

We’re not as good as our record is and as we play more games, we prove it.

With teams like Miami, the Wizards, the Bulls & Toronto all making big improvements in the off season, I could see us missing the play offs altogether.

While I agree about Kemba...and think sharing out his mins during the season is a good idea, I also think having him on board in the Playoffs may pay off on his deal. He can step up and loves MSG limelight. For what's basically a one year deal, I like the signing.

That said, I am not at all impressed with EF and would rather have had Ball than EF+KW.

TheGame wrote:Move IQ to the starting unit. Place Grimes as the backup shooting guard. Problem solved. IQ gives you the same scoring ability as Kemba with much better defense. Grimes brings more defense to the second unit. Come up with a fake injury for Kemba and let him sit for 10 games and see how it goes. I know it is harsh but Kemba is not bringing it and his lack of defense is hurting the team. The next thing is to tell Randle to quit the ball stopping. Implement a 3 second rule. Once you get the ball, you have 3-seconds to either shoot, pass, or drive. These changes should fix our problems.

I wouldn’t start IQ but I’d absolutely give him 25 minutes a night off the bench as a combo guard

franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.

A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.

xavier wrote:

franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.

A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.

Derozan 2021 = Amare 2010

Both guys started out hot with their new teams. And then reality hit