Knicks · Ways to Improve (page 1)

Maintain roster for 10 more games (puts us at 25 games) and re-evaluate possible roster moves
Pros - sometimes it takes more time to gel and we would look silly jumping ship on the off-season moves so quickly
Maybe more opportunities open up by waiting. You almost never make a mistake waiting and not acting impulsively
Cons - if we can see what the problems are - we should know how correctable they are or aren't (eg Kemba or Fournier defense).
The new additions are playing how they historically have played so is it realistic to expect they would suddenly play differently?

Correct Offseason errors and trade Kemba and/or Fournier for a more glue guy (like we had in Bullock) and a healthy PG upgrade
Pros - quicker we acknowledge we made offseason errors (eg not keeping Bullock) - quicker we can remedy them and improve this season
Cons - moving Kemba and Fournier to the bench could work well and still offer the balance needed between both units

Swap out Burks and IQ for Kemba and Fournier and see if we do better, worse or similar
Pros - see above
Cons - nothing to lose but time

Consider giving Obi more of Mitch's minutes throughout the game and keep starting and backup lineups most the same
Pros - he's playing better and brings an energy that the starting unit doesn't seem to have enough of
Cons - we'd have to hustle even more to offset the limited size and rim protection we wouldn't likely have

Stop building around Randle and move him for a better or similar player to open up the ball movement and give Obi some minutes at the 4
Pros
An ongoing problem is Randle's style of play IMO - he's a ball holder and not good enough when doubled.
Obi is probably best as a 4 and will only play spot minutes despite that he runs faster/harder and makes quicker decisions with the ball. While he's still our best player - he's not a ECF level decision maker when you think about very good teams and who handles the ball majority of the time.
Randle probably holds the most value as he is productive.

Cons - Randle has shown flashes of moving the ball (eg last season) and we could keep surrounding him with complementary-type players.
Randle is the best talent we have and is hard working.

Seems to make the most sense to see what Burks and IQ bring to the starting unit - even though I have doubts about IQ as a starting/lead PG. Would preserve Kemba's health/minutes and still keep DRose as the amazing backup he is. I hope Thibs considers trying this first before making any trades or other rash lineup changes.

I would go to Obi plan to play more after and see if that positively impacts our season.

If at trade deadline we are still struggling to play solid defense - would considering Kemba, Fournier and (in the right situation) Randle available to be moved.

Thoughts or opinions on any of these? Better options out there not listed above? Anybody see the problem(s) differently?

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

Let’s face it, I also think Fournier is overpaid and I’d rather we signed someone up for a year if we couldn’t find a suitable player for long-term plans (with an acceptable salary of course). But what would you do now?

Would you let RJ go then? Or would you trade him? Or would you try to get rid of Fournier?

xavier wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

Let’s face it, I also think Fournier is overpaid and I’d rather we signed someone up for a year if we couldn’t find a suitable player for long-term plans (with an acceptable salary of course). But what would you do now?

Would you let RJ go then? Or would you trade him? Or would you try to get rid of Fournier?

You move Fournier if things don’t go well but it’s way too early to assume anything at this point.

People were posting and writing for months that this was going to require a change in Randle's game. And lo and behold, he's not posting the same numbers as last year after 15 games! What the holy eff, Batman??!??? How can this be?!????

Randle needs to stop the iso moves in the paint. No, Randle needs to make more iso moves in the paint. Trade IQ. No, start IQ. Obi looks lost. Oh wait, play Obi more, he dunks alot! He hit three threes in one game! That's got to be an omen that his athleticism trumps his inability to move sideways faster than you, oh poster of master intelligence! Play Grimes! Yes, play the rookie! Play him more than the two loser free agents your vaunted FO signed for $90 million. Grimes is shiny and new, and WTF does Thibs know, just watching this high energy kid in practice every day, day after day?!???? We know more than him! The NY Post knows more than him! Sheehit, Berman knows more than Thibs!!!!!

You people have no idea how to protect a nation. Or coach a pro basketball team. I'll take the guy with the bookend COY the awards. He's going to figure it out. And then everyone will just play so much better.

jrodmc wrote:We got two starting cogs to take the scoring load off Randle. We knew they were sub-par defensively out of the gate. But that's not what got us kicked out of the 1st round last year, because we had the now defensively glorified Elfid Patently Useless and Bullock in the lineup. How'd that go again?

People were posting and writing for months that this was going to require a change in Randle's game. And lo and behold, he's not posting the same numbers as last year after 15 games! What the holy eff, Batman??!??? How can this be?!????

Randle needs to stop the iso moves in the paint. No, Randle needs to make more iso moves in the paint. Trade IQ. No, start IQ. Obi looks lost. Oh wait, play Obi more, he dunks alot! He hit three threes in one game! That's got to be an omen that his athleticism trumps his inability to move sideways faster than you, oh poster of master intelligence! Play Grimes! Yes, play the rookie! Play him more than the two loser free agents your vaunted FO signed for $90 million. Grimes is shiny and new, and WTF does Thibs know, just watching this high energy kid in practice every day, day after day?!???? We know more than him! The NY Post knows more than him! Sheehit, Berman knows more than Thibs!!!!!

You people have no idea how to protect a nation. Or coach a pro basketball team. I'll take the guy with the bookend COY the awards. He's going to figure it out. And then everyone will just play so much better.

That doesn't give Thibs a pass...he needs to not be a stubborn coach

knicks1248 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We got two starting cogs to take the scoring load off Randle. We knew they were sub-par defensively out of the gate. But that's not what got us kicked out of the 1st round last year, because we had the now defensively glorified Elfid Patently Useless and Bullock in the lineup. How'd that go again?

People were posting and writing for months that this was going to require a change in Randle's game. And lo and behold, he's not posting the same numbers as last year after 15 games! What the holy eff, Batman??!??? How can this be?!????

Randle needs to stop the iso moves in the paint. No, Randle needs to make more iso moves in the paint. Trade IQ. No, start IQ. Obi looks lost. Oh wait, play Obi more, he dunks alot! He hit three threes in one game! That's got to be an omen that his athleticism trumps his inability to move sideways faster than you, oh poster of master intelligence! Play Grimes! Yes, play the rookie! Play him more than the two loser free agents your vaunted FO signed for $90 million. Grimes is shiny and new, and WTF does Thibs know, just watching this high energy kid in practice every day, day after day?!???? We know more than him! The NY Post knows more than him! Sheehit, Berman knows more than Thibs!!!!!

You people have no idea how to protect a nation. Or coach a pro basketball team. I'll take the guy with the bookend COY the awards. He's going to figure it out. And then everyone will just play so much better.

That doesn't give Thibs a pass...he needs to not be a stubborn coach

What you call stubborn, others like former and current nba players call him a players coach. From a couch potatoe fans perspective, stubborn means negative. Especially for fans hungry for a win or a chip. We want things in a NY minute. Well that wasn’t Thibs then and it sure ain’t him now. His stubbornness last year is also why we over achieved. As long as we are above 500, he will play the wait and see game. Meanwhile players can relax and just play. Knowing that Thibs is the type to give you a long leash, as long as you are putting in the work on defense. Then theres the political side of things. Kemba and Fournier are FO moves. If your boss enforcers a roster addition, you, me or Thibs will walk that fine line and not make any knee jerk reactions, without having solid data to back up your decisions. Nobody will risk their job on an early decision that could back fire. Too early in the season for any drastic changes. But personally I believe we are a few home blowouts away from Thibs doing any roster changes.

blkexec wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We got two starting cogs to take the scoring load off Randle. We knew they were sub-par defensively out of the gate. But that's not what got us kicked out of the 1st round last year, because we had the now defensively glorified Elfid Patently Useless and Bullock in the lineup. How'd that go again?

People were posting and writing for months that this was going to require a change in Randle's game. And lo and behold, he's not posting the same numbers as last year after 15 games! What the holy eff, Batman??!??? How can this be?!????

Randle needs to stop the iso moves in the paint. No, Randle needs to make more iso moves in the paint. Trade IQ. No, start IQ. Obi looks lost. Oh wait, play Obi more, he dunks alot! He hit three threes in one game! That's got to be an omen that his athleticism trumps his inability to move sideways faster than you, oh poster of master intelligence! Play Grimes! Yes, play the rookie! Play him more than the two loser free agents your vaunted FO signed for $90 million. Grimes is shiny and new, and WTF does Thibs know, just watching this high energy kid in practice every day, day after day?!???? We know more than him! The NY Post knows more than him! Sheehit, Berman knows more than Thibs!!!!!

You people have no idea how to protect a nation. Or coach a pro basketball team. I'll take the guy with the bookend COY the awards. He's going to figure it out. And then everyone will just play so much better.

That doesn't give Thibs a pass...he needs to not be a stubborn coach

What you call stubborn, others like former and current nba players call him a players coach. From a couch potatoe fans perspective, stubborn means negative. Especially for fans hungry for a win or a chip. We want things in a NY minute. Well that wasn’t Thibs then and it sure ain’t him now. His stubbornness last year is also why we over achieved. As long as we are above 500, he will play the wait and see game. Meanwhile players can relax and just play. Knowing that Thibs is the type to give you a long leash, as long as you are putting in the work on defense. Then theres the political side of things. Kemba and Fournier are FO moves. If your boss enforcers a roster addition, you, me or Thibs will walk that fine line and not make any knee jerk reactions, without having solid data to back up your decisions. Nobody will risk their job on an early decision that could back fire. Too early in the season for any drastic changes. But personally I believe we are a few home blowouts away from Thibs doing any roster changes.

Isn't that in some ways the opposite of being accountable?

I know Fournier isn't finishing games, but the question is why is he starting? He played 1 game like a starter.

Send him to the bench, if he can't figure out his game with the 2nd unit against 2nd unit players, he can go to the bench and figure it out on the pine.

How is standing behind a players putrid play being supportive?

Actually, I think Fournier needs to go to the bench to play with a different group to actually get back on track.

blkexec wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We got two starting cogs to take the scoring load off Randle. We knew they were sub-par defensively out of the gate. But that's not what got us kicked out of the 1st round last year, because we had the now defensively glorified Elfid Patently Useless and Bullock in the lineup. How'd that go again?

People were posting and writing for months that this was going to require a change in Randle's game. And lo and behold, he's not posting the same numbers as last year after 15 games! What the holy eff, Batman??!??? How can this be?!????

Randle needs to stop the iso moves in the paint. No, Randle needs to make more iso moves in the paint. Trade IQ. No, start IQ. Obi looks lost. Oh wait, play Obi more, he dunks alot! He hit three threes in one game! That's got to be an omen that his athleticism trumps his inability to move sideways faster than you, oh poster of master intelligence! Play Grimes! Yes, play the rookie! Play him more than the two loser free agents your vaunted FO signed for $90 million. Grimes is shiny and new, and WTF does Thibs know, just watching this high energy kid in practice every day, day after day?!???? We know more than him! The NY Post knows more than him! Sheehit, Berman knows more than Thibs!!!!!

You people have no idea how to protect a nation. Or coach a pro basketball team. I'll take the guy with the bookend COY the awards. He's going to figure it out. And then everyone will just play so much better.

That doesn't give Thibs a pass...he needs to not be a stubborn coach

What you call stubborn, others like former and current nba players call him a players coach. From a couch potatoe fans perspective, stubborn means negative. Especially for fans hungry for a win or a chip. We want things in a NY minute. Well that wasn’t Thibs then and it sure ain’t him now. His stubbornness last year is also why we over achieved. As long as we are above 500, he will play the wait and see game. Meanwhile players can relax and just play. Knowing that Thibs is the type to give you a long leash, as long as you are putting in the work on defense. Then theres the political side of things. Kemba and Fournier are FO moves. If your boss enforcers a roster addition, you, me or Thibs will walk that fine line and not make any knee jerk reactions, without having solid data to back up your decisions. Nobody will risk their job on an early decision that could back fire. Too early in the season for any drastic changes. But personally I believe we are a few home blowouts away from Thibs doing any roster changes.

Stubborn is when you see something consistently not working and you refuse to try something different.

You think Thibs is making all the right moves?

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/FrankBarrett119/status/1461773050270072836?s=20

Click here to view the Tweet

Easy.

xavier wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

Let’s face it, I also think Fournier is overpaid and I’d rather we signed someone up for a year if we couldn’t find a suitable player for long-term plans (with an acceptable salary of course). But what would you do now?

Would you let RJ go then? Or would you trade him? Or would you try to get rid of Fournier?

I just don't see how this team can be competitive paying those two at least 40 million combined. I would love to get rid of Fournier but I don't see its possible

“We don’t practice that much. We don’t play five on five in practice anymore,” Fournier said. “So, it’s really about watching the game, seeing how you can adjust, what you can do better and once you get on the floor, do it. Read situations. From my point of view, that’s really how we can get better just from watching the film. The games keep on coming.”

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say they might want to rethink not practicing much.

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

We really need to get rid of Fournier’s contract. I’d trade the next Mavericks pick to dump his salary on a team like OKC

Jmpasq wrote:

xavier wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

Let’s face it, I also think Fournier is overpaid and I’d rather we signed someone up for a year if we couldn’t find a suitable player for long-term plans (with an acceptable salary of course). But what would you do now?

Would you let RJ go then? Or would you trade him? Or would you try to get rid of Fournier?

I just don't see how this team can be competitive paying those two at least 40 million combined. I would love to get rid of Fournier but I don't see its possible

Offer Mitch and/or the next Mavs pick to sweeten the pot for OKC

I love Mitch but Noel is the same player. Taj and Sims are decent depth and next offseason we can sign a guy like Deandre Jordan or Dwight Howard to a one year deal to platoon with Noel

Rose and Perry overall have done a good job. Mistakes happen to regime

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

We really need to get rid of Fournier’s contract. I’d trade the next Mavericks pick to dump his salary on a team like OKC

You want to trade Fournier because he hasn't played well in 2 weeks?

That's not even equal to a 90 day probation period on a regular job..

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

We really need to get rid of Fournier’s contract. I’d trade the next Mavericks pick to dump his salary on a team like OKC

You want to trade Fournier because he hasn't played well in 2 weeks?

That's not even equal to a 90 day probation period on a regular job..

So you prefer to wait until Fournier has destroyed all his trade value and cost us the playoffs?

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Serious question are we really going to pay RJ Barrett 20 million + a year? We are already saddled with Fournier who is a top 20 if not top 10 worst contracts in the NBA

We really need to get rid of Fournier’s contract. I’d trade the next Mavericks pick to dump his salary on a team like OKC

You want to trade Fournier because he hasn't played well in 2 weeks?

That's not even equal to a 90 day probation period on a regular job..

So you prefer to wait until Fournier has destroyed all his trade value and cost us the playoffs?

Ahhhh, no one can claim to be a true Knicks fan unless prone to panic when things go sour and to exuberant highs when the team strings together a couple of wins, often hitting both extremes within a single week!

Fournier is overpaid, that has been clear from the date he got signed. But half of today's NBA is overpaid.

The pieces are there. There is still upside from having the team jell. Trying to trade Fournier right after signing him would be the single biggest hit to his trade value one can imagine. He is still a good shooter and a smart passer, he will find his role on the team. Thibs will figure out how to cover for defensive shortcomings. And if Kemba's knees hold up, we could make the playoffs and maybe win a series. What is the problem?

Knixkik wrote:The simplest way to improve is not to overreact and let the new guys figure it out. They didn’t suddenly forget how to play basketball. This is a good team that needs to stop worrying about getting out of the other persons way. Chemistry will build.

Agreed. Give it to Christmas. You shatter any confidence that is left if you bench Fournier 15 games in. And I'll say it again - leave the bench alone! It's our biggest strength!