Their 5 position is avg 27 points on 65% shooting BEYOND the excellent defense abs rebounding they receive. Yes they have booker and paul with great role players but no other team in the nba can match the two way firepower they have at 5.
I write this on main board because of the lack of offense we get from 5. Last year the d was so good that it kind of hid offensive production. But many days are like games against bulls—- we get outplayed. Yes mitch had his moments but he is CLEARLY slower lost a lot of bounce struggles with his conditioning too. His offensive game is no where. Between him and Noel u get not much and in many of these games we’re getting beat from the 5
Having a PG to run a PnR with helps
Vucevic was the player we should have tried to grab last year. He would absolutely make us a better looking team.
Myles Turner is still the one to push for. He’s young, attainable, and can provide added offense without taking away from the defensive identity at the position.
I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
ramtour420 wrote:Having a PG to run a PnR with helps
It's a serious problem if the only way for your 5 can score is on PnR, especially if your big is rolling to the basket 1000% of the time.,thats so easy to defend.
When you have a center that can shoot from the perimeter, it's harder to defend the PnR because the floor is more space out, you immediately see Mitch switching to protect the drive leaving his man wide open
I watched Vuc lose mitch on 3 straight PnR possessions, I almost thought it was a replay until i turned the Volume up..
franco12 wrote:I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
Most likely you would be selling low and watching him break out somewhere else. He’s such a big part of the defensive identity and still offers the most upside on this team. He’s still only 21.
Each team is differently built so while Phx is doing well with Ayton's play - it doesn't mean we can construct our puzzle pieces with a Mitch/Noel or non-scoring offensive center. That said Mitch continues to struggle and remain healthy so I'm somewhat defrosting to my resistance to trade/upgrade at the C spot.
Randle is a big piece to figure out (since it seems we are trying to build around him/surround him with good fits) and we keep trying to figure out the right combo around him - unsuccessfully. At some point do we consider that he is not worth trying to construct everyone around him. I see that RJ has struggled mightily this season, but the talent and work ethic is there (we saw the progress last season). While it's unclear if he will ever develop into the alpha dog/A star needed - we now have enough time to recognize that Randle isn't that, and is older, and costs more, etc... Maybe these existing players/pieces would fit better if they weren't forced around a B+ talent in the role of an A star?
I said last season (even when we were overachieving) that to win at a high level with him being a PF with his style of play (dribbles, dominates and holds ball for ISO) - he would have to either possess insane athleticism, be more highly skilled, and/or possess exceptional court vision. Last season he did shoot the ball so well that the other qualities weren't as impactful. Yet we did still see the end of game turnovers, the playoff crash vs Hawks, etc...
This season there are new players, RJ seems unsure how to find his game with new teammates, the league has caught up the last year's progress, and our defense experienced a setback. This is not an indictment of Randle - but mediocrity is what we will continue to see with him as the focal point. The sooner the FO realizes this and works through their loyalty to Randle - the sooner we can back the truck up and drive down a different road. That road will likely result in more growing pains (at least initially) - but nothing is worse than going down a road that ends in nowhere land. We stunk for many years but we were never really even in the truck on a road (not since a short path during 2012 at least).
franco12 wrote:I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
What would be that package? Any player is tradeable no?
Think RJ will always be a solid player. Feel when he entered the league the talk is he cannot shoot. Think he has worked hard and now shows promise to be a good shooter. He is also tough on the defensive side of the ball. As mentioned, anyone is tradeable but I have confidence that if RJ is a long-term piece he will continue to improve.
The difference between Phoenix and the rest of the league is they have lots of cactus trees.
Not to mention one of the best young scorers in the league and one of the best PG's of all time. Also like their frontcourt. Their third-string PG is also one of the best in the league. At least that is what Philc says.
They will have a tough time getting through in the West. Going past the Lakers, Denver, Jazz, Warriors, Mavs etc will be no easy task.
HofstraBBall wrote:franco12 wrote:I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
What would be that package? Any player is tradeable no?
Think RJ will always be a solid player. Feel when he entered the league the talk is he cannot shoot. Think he has worked hard and now shows promise to be a good shooter. He is also tough on the defensive side of the ball. As mentioned, anyone is tradeable but I have confidence that if RJ is a long-term piece he will continue to improve.
I'm a big fan of RJ and would have possibly traded him with a package for Lavine - too bad that ship sailed at the end of last season. Don't think there is another wing that is young/up and coming, tries on defense and works hard, etc - that is equitable and would help our team more at this point. If RJ is traded and Randle stays... I will need yet another booster shot
jskinny35 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:franco12 wrote:I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
What would be that package? Any player is tradeable no?
Think RJ will always be a solid player. Feel when he entered the league the talk is he cannot shoot. Think he has worked hard and now shows promise to be a good shooter. He is also tough on the defensive side of the ball. As mentioned, anyone is tradeable but I have confidence that if RJ is a long-term piece he will continue to improve.
I'm a big fan of RJ and would have possibly traded him with a package for Lavine - too bad that ship sailed at the end of last season. Don't think there is another wing that is young/up and coming, tries on defense and works hard, etc - that is equitable and would help our team more at this point. If RJ is traded and Randle stays... I will need yet another booster shot
Lol. Lavine is definitely talented. Wrote on the game thread that he does take some horrible shots and basketball IQ can be questioned. But he is an athletic freak. Believe it or not the guy I wanted the Knicks to get was Caruso. Glue guy definition. Also Derozan was another one that I feel we should have made a run at.
Agree about RJ, would hate him thrown in on a multi-player trade just cuz.
HofstraBBall wrote:franco12 wrote:I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
What would be that package? Any player is tradeable no?
Think RJ will always be a solid player. Feel when he entered the league the talk is he cannot shoot. Think he has worked hard and now shows promise to be a good shooter. He is also tough on the defensive side of the ball. As mentioned, anyone is tradeable but I have confidence that if RJ is a long-term piece he will continue to improve.
For Damian Lillard? Last year, I would have said no. This year, his struggles, seeing what other teams like the Bulls & Miami are doing with some older type players. I would.
franco12 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:franco12 wrote:I think I'd be open to trading RJ in the right package. His play this year has been underwhelming. Am I wrong to say this?
What would be that package? Any player is tradeable no?
Think RJ will always be a solid player. Feel when he entered the league the talk is he cannot shoot. Think he has worked hard and now shows promise to be a good shooter. He is also tough on the defensive side of the ball. As mentioned, anyone is tradeable but I have confidence that if RJ is a long-term piece he will continue to improve.
For Damian Lillard? Last year, I would have said no. This year, his struggles, seeing what other teams like the Bulls & Miami are doing with some older type players. I would.
That's probably the type of trade I would be most afraid of. It would probably take most of our young core and one of our main players to get that done. Portland will not just give away their franchise player for RJ and a few Kevin Knox's. I would prefer a young up-and-coming player that can be had for some extra draft picks and loose pieces to go along with RJ. But who is out there that fits that mold?
BRIGGS wrote:Their 5 position is avg 27 points on 65% shooting BEYOND the excellent defense abs rebounding they receive. Yes they have booker and paul with great role players but no other team in the nba can match the two way firepower they have at 5.I write this on main board because of the lack of offense we get from 5. Last year the d was so good that it kind of hid offensive production. But many days are like games against bulls—- we get outplayed. Yes mitch had his moments but he is CLEARLY slower lost a lot of bounce struggles with his conditioning too. His offensive game is no where. Between him and Noel u get not much and in many of these games we’re getting beat from the 5
knicks1278 hacked BRIGGS password!
knicks1248 wrote:Rj for Tyler Herro
Miami would love this trade. Both players are inconsistent. I haven't checked on Herro lately, but at some point during this early season, fans complained about Herro not showing up. This appears to be a lateral move. Duncan Robinson was somebody knick fans wanted. Now Miami can't give him away. Miami is a mess and should be in the trade market soon. I'm just not sure who from Miami, outside of Butler, Bam and Lowrey….Can help this knick team. It's something about NY or the Garden, that makes good players look average.
We are mediocre without Herro. We will be mediocre with Herro.
blkexec wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Rj for Tyler Herro
Miami would love this trade. Both players are inconsistent. I haven't checked on Herro lately, but at some point during this early season, fans complained about Herro not showing up. This appears to be a lateral move. Duncan Robinson was somebody knick fans wanted. Now Miami can't give him away. Miami is a mess and should be in the trade market soon. I'm just not sure who from Miami, outside of Butler, Bam and Lowrey….Can help this knick team. It's something about NY or the Garden, that makes good players look average.
We are mediocre without Herro. We will be mediocre with Herro.
He started out slow but work his way up to 21.7 ppg, 5.5 rebonds 3.5 asst 40% 3pt 45fg% 85%
I'm not going to even POST RJ'S #s because it would look like a one sided trade, especially considering herro was picks 10 spots later
knicks1248 wrote:blkexec wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Rj for Tyler Herro
Miami would love this trade. Both players are inconsistent. I haven't checked on Herro lately, but at some point during this early season, fans complained about Herro not showing up. This appears to be a lateral move. Duncan Robinson was somebody knick fans wanted. Now Miami can't give him away. Miami is a mess and should be in the trade market soon. I'm just not sure who from Miami, outside of Butler, Bam and Lowrey….Can help this knick team. It's something about NY or the Garden, that makes good players look average.
We are mediocre without Herro. We will be mediocre with Herro.
He started out slow but work his way up to 21.7 ppg, 5.5 rebonds 3.5 asst 40% 3pt 45fg% 85%
I'm not going to even POST RJ'S #s because it would look like a one sided trade, especially considering herro was picks 10 spots later
Except Herro is another Walker defensively and Barrett is actually good defensively. Thibs would never tolerate Herro.
Panos wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Their 5 position is avg 27 points on 65% shooting BEYOND the excellent defense abs rebounding they receive. Yes they have booker and paul with great role players but no other team in the nba can match the two way firepower they have at 5.I write this on main board because of the lack of offense we get from 5. Last year the d was so good that it kind of hid offensive production. But many days are like games against bulls—- we get outplayed. Yes mitch had his moments but he is CLEARLY slower lost a lot of bounce struggles with his conditioning too. His offensive game is no where. Between him and Noel u get not much and in many of these games we’re getting beat from the 5
knicks1278 hacked BRIGGS password!
That's funny, but if your not agreeing with what he's saying you clearly not paying Attn.
Our centers are not all that good and bring very little to the table..so why would not agree with him
BRIGGS wrote:Their 5 position is avg 27 points on 65% shooting BEYOND the excellent defense abs rebounding they receive. Yes they have booker and paul with great role players but no other team in the nba can match the two way firepower they have at 5.I write this on main board because of the lack of offense we get from 5. Last year the d was so good that it kind of hid offensive production. But many days are like games against bulls—- we get outplayed. Yes mitch had his moments but he is CLEARLY slower lost a lot of bounce struggles with his conditioning too. His offensive game is no where. Between him and Noel u get not much and in many of these games we’re getting beat from the 5
But he was drafted. And if you look at the suns draft history, they actually hit on their draft picks, unlike the knicks. So all they needed was a CP3 type veteran and a role player that shoots 3s and plays defense (Crowder). Knicks missed on almost all of their draft picks and that will set a franchise back. If the suns was as bad at drafting as the knicks, they would be an after thought. The moral of the story is, we have to draft better and improve our youth movement, which is something that doesn't happen over night.
If we want to cheat the development system and can't wait on draft players to develop, then you have to over pay for young talent. And that's a huge risk that can leave us with no room to fill out the roster or stuck with a contract we can't trade. If we had the suns center, with our PG situation, we would be a mediocre team. The Suns have no weaknesses in that starting lineup. From PG to Center, they are all legit and they all know, understand and agree with their roles. PGs and Centers are the 2 critical positions on a team. The Suns have that and more. So it's not just about their 5 position is avg 27pts. He's also trying to show that he deserves max money, so he's motivated. They also have a young and motivated head coach. How many players have we seen, get max money and fall off the day after they sign. So it's way more complicated than just having a center that scores points.
You want more offense from the 5, make a trade or draft better! Otherwise, roll with the cards we have. Every position doesn't have to score 20 plus points. BTW, what makes him a good player, has nothing to do with his 27pts. lol. If that's all he was doing, the suns wouldn't be one of the best teams in the nba. He does everything that Mitch does as well, as far as defense, rebound and rim protecting. You want a 5 that scores, trade for Chicagos center, then complain that he doesn't play defense like Mitch or Noel. Trade for Turner who just sits at the 3pt line waiting for a pass, them complain he doesn't go into the paint enough.
I can't wait for us to win again. Winning is the only thing that minimizes knee jerk reaction threads.
