BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.
His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.
I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.
The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.
There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.
Yes, there are deals that could be made. But do you really want John Wall?
Didn't say I wanted him, just pointing out that there are some options...
Yeah, I get that. But my point is none of those options are appealing right now. We'd be trading Syphilis for the Clap. The team isn't missing out on a title run one way or the other, despite some unrealistic fan expectation at the beginning of the season. Let's hope they can build him back up. Then the Knicks won't be dealing from a hand of desperation if they decide to move him.
No one thought we were winning a chip. My hope was they could win a playoff series. I would of been happy with that. Knicks have a choice to make. They move forward and use the young players to bring in help to try to win a playoff series, or try to dump Randle and Fournier and keep the young players and let them grow together.
Uptown wrote:fishmike wrote:smackeddog wrote:Interestingly Jonathon Macri said on his podcast (the Knicks film school emergency pod from yesterday) that someone in the Knicks org told him not to think Thibs is fine with the way Randle has been this season, he said it's tearing Thibs up, he's just not showing it in public. Also said it's also changed the way some of people in the Knicks org view Randle, they've really soured on him.
there is NO PHUCKING WAY Thibs is OK with this. He's got to be very careful and he's got to perfectly manage a player who is really struggling, impacting the team with his poor play, was just given a huge contract, and does have talent. Its really hard. Its a lot of hats to wear. People really cant grasp its not as simple as "play this guy instead." The league just doesnt work like that. There's been a very different chemistry this year and not in a good way. Randle/ELF/Bullock played a ton together and played well to their skill sets. They defended really well and on offense ELF would dribble all day until he found Randle a good look or he found Reggie open. This year the Randle/Fourn/Kemba combo looks bad, plays bad and shows no desire to gel or work as unit, especially on defense. Randle guards his guy like he wants to fight him in the parking lot after the game and be bothered much with help.
The front office and Thibs have their first big challenge IMO. Can they get Randle straight? Do they move him? What about Fournier/Kemba? Can we get another late first for Burks at the deadline?
Good call on Burks. His favorable contract and play this year makes him our most valuable player and perhaps most attractive player to other teams. I think the previous front office's agenda when we traded Morris was a bit different than this year's front office. Unless we fall flat on our faces down the stretch and fall out of the play-in, I don't think we move Burks at the deadline. But, at some point a decision will have to made if Grimes and IQ continue to improve and are need of playing time. Fournier might be the preferable choice to move, but like I said, Burks has more value.
I've made it clear on numerous occasions that I am not a Randle fan, however, he's our best player and anyone who says he needs to be benched has no clue what they're talking about. That's not the way it works. With that said, I have called-out Thibs to hold him accountable the same way he holds the others accountable. When Randle has defensive lapses, and or missed assignments, Thibs needs to pull him off the floor the same way he would pull RJ or Evan or Obi off the floor. Wouldn't mind seeong Randle down to about 32 mins per as well...
Well it looks like he did that against Detroit.
Please stop with the trading vets for 1st round picks because it ain't happening. This isn't Steve Mills, and Thibs ain't the Tanking type. I can't recall any of Thibs teams that didn't make the playoffs..
Besides, the play in tournament prevents teams from TANKING, Protocols have left teams decimated.
If the knicks make a trade it will be to help this team this seasons and beyond
knicks1248 wrote:Uptown wrote:fishmike wrote:smackeddog wrote:Interestingly Jonathon Macri said on his podcast (the Knicks film school emergency pod from yesterday) that someone in the Knicks org told him not to think Thibs is fine with the way Randle has been this season, he said it's tearing Thibs up, he's just not showing it in public. Also said it's also changed the way some of people in the Knicks org view Randle, they've really soured on him.
there is NO PHUCKING WAY Thibs is OK with this. He's got to be very careful and he's got to perfectly manage a player who is really struggling, impacting the team with his poor play, was just given a huge contract, and does have talent. Its really hard. Its a lot of hats to wear. People really cant grasp its not as simple as "play this guy instead." The league just doesnt work like that. There's been a very different chemistry this year and not in a good way. Randle/ELF/Bullock played a ton together and played well to their skill sets. They defended really well and on offense ELF would dribble all day until he found Randle a good look or he found Reggie open. This year the Randle/Fourn/Kemba combo looks bad, plays bad and shows no desire to gel or work as unit, especially on defense. Randle guards his guy like he wants to fight him in the parking lot after the game and be bothered much with help.
The front office and Thibs have their first big challenge IMO. Can they get Randle straight? Do they move him? What about Fournier/Kemba? Can we get another late first for Burks at the deadline?
Good call on Burks. His favorable contract and play this year makes him our most valuable player and perhaps most attractive player to other teams. I think the previous front office's agenda when we traded Morris was a bit different than this year's front office. Unless we fall flat on our faces down the stretch and fall out of the play-in, I don't think we move Burks at the deadline. But, at some point a decision will have to made if Grimes and IQ continue to improve and are need of playing time. Fournier might be the preferable choice to move, but like I said, Burks has more value.
I've made it clear on numerous occasions that I am not a Randle fan, however, he's our best player and anyone who says he needs to be benched has no clue what they're talking about. That's not the way it works. With that said, I have called-out Thibs to hold him accountable the same way he holds the others accountable. When Randle has defensive lapses, and or missed assignments, Thibs needs to pull him off the floor the same way he would pull RJ or Evan or Obi off the floor. Wouldn't mind seeong Randle down to about 32 mins per as well...
Well it looks like he did that against Detroit.
Please stop with the trading vets for 1st round picks because it ain't happening. This isn't Steve Mills, and Thibs ain't the Tanking type. I can't recall any of Thibs teams that didn't make the playoffs..
Besides, the play in tournament prevents teams from TANKING, Protocols have left teams decimated.
If the knicks make a trade it will be to help this team this seasons and beyond
I clearly stated that the agenda of the current front office is different than the previous one (Mills). Where did I suggest that we trade a vet specifically for a first-round pick??
Jmpasq wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.
His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.
I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.
The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.
There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.
Yes, there are deals that could be made. But do you really want John Wall?
Didn't say I wanted him, just pointing out that there are some options...
Yeah, I get that. But my point is none of those options are appealing right now. We'd be trading Syphilis for the Clap. The team isn't missing out on a title run one way or the other, despite some unrealistic fan expectation at the beginning of the season. Let's hope they can build him back up. Then the Knicks won't be dealing from a hand of desperation if they decide to move him.
No one thought we were winning a chip. My hope was they could win a playoff series. I would of been happy with that. Knicks have a choice to make. They move forward and use the young players to bring in help to try to win a playoff series, or try to dump Randle and Fournier and keep the young players and let them grow together.
If Randle doesn't get right, what realistic piece is out there that will help the team make a decent playoff run. We get Myles Turner and what happens? Jules has the same chemistry issues he has with Fournier and Kemba on the perimeter and he has the same issues on the interior that he has with Mitch. We have some nice pieces, but RJ, who might be our most valuable trade chip, has lost luster. I like our young pieces, but the team isn't nearly as flush with assets as some posters think. I don't mind trades, but they have to make sense in the long and short term. Making a trade to cement the Knicks as a middling, low level playoff team for the next few years isn't a desirable outcome to me.
BigDaddyG wrote:Jmpasq wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.
His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.
I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.
The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.
There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.
Yes, there are deals that could be made. But do you really want John Wall?
Didn't say I wanted him, just pointing out that there are some options...
Yeah, I get that. But my point is none of those options are appealing right now. We'd be trading Syphilis for the Clap. The team isn't missing out on a title run one way or the other, despite some unrealistic fan expectation at the beginning of the season. Let's hope they can build him back up. Then the Knicks won't be dealing from a hand of desperation if they decide to move him.
No one thought we were winning a chip. My hope was they could win a playoff series. I would of been happy with that. Knicks have a choice to make. They move forward and use the young players to bring in help to try to win a playoff series, or try to dump Randle and Fournier and keep the young players and let them grow together.
If Randle doesn't get right, what realistic piece is out there that will help the team make a decent playoff run. We get Myles Turner and what happens? Jules has the same chemistry issues he has with Fournier and Kemba on the perimeter and he has the same issues on the interior that he has with Mitch. We have some nice pieces, but RJ, who might be our most valuable trade chip, has lost luster. I like our young pieces, but the team isn't nearly as flush with assets as some posters think. I don't mind trades, but they have to make sense in the long and short term. Making a trade to cement the Knicks as a middling, low level playoff team for the next few years isn't a desirable outcome to me.
They need to get right within, play more unselfish, play with more energy and effort, and make better rotations..
The only need that is a must is another big man that can shoot, but if OBI can get that right, he would see more PT
Kemet wrote:The Knicks all-star player Randle will be missing a few games, after being put on safety Covid Protocol.
Knicks Head coach Thibs did say, Randle haven't been feeling well in last night post game comments.
However, after the Knicks vs Pistons game in several forums so many Knicks fans kept chatting the same thing, "I can't wait until Randle go on safety protocols.".How well will the Knicks do without their 40 minute all-star player on the court in the up coming games?
Head coach Thibs has been giving Randle 40 minutes of playing time in every game since coach Thibs got the Knicks job, plus Randle only missed 1 or 2 games in two seasons.
What will become of the Knicks without their all-star?
Do Thibs know how to WIN without his FAV Randle in the rotation?
Will coach Thibs go back to his old ways and run a short rotation of players (7 to 9 man rotation) to struggle to win but lose each time. Or will Thibs put a player that hasn't been in the rotation as a starter like he did Frank last season?
Will Knox replace Randle in the starter lineup?
Will Obi Toppin get his first chance to perform for 30 min a game?
Truth be told, the Knicks with or without Randle are a 10 Man rotation team that wins 70% of their games, plus stay above the .500 record.
The Knicks have a group of exciting potential players in the young-core group:
PG-Deuce, SG-Grimes, Combo-Quickley, SF-Knox, PF-Toppin, and C-Sims.
All play winning hustle B.ball, and need playing time in the rotation to start JELLIN with teammates.
The Knicks new starter lineup should be ..
Kemba, Fournier, Barrett, Taj, and MitchRob for the next couple of games (OKC & Raptors).
Yes, Taj belong on the 2nd unit lineup, but the Starter-lineup desperately need Taj Gibson leadership to get out a lot of the kinks in their performance.
This will tell a lot about coach thibs and how he believes this team can win games without Randle.
Popular choice is to start Obi. But his best choice might be Taj, which reduces the impact to the second unit youth core, and gives a leadership boost to the starting unit. Plus allows us to out rebound and rim protect against most teams. Just like Rose, Taj is a players coach. He’s an extension of thibs on the floor and will lead by example with effort. He can also show Obi what to do as a starter while simultaneously increasing Obi minutes off the bench. This Taj and Mitch combo can be dangerous and makes up for EF and Kemba defensive liabilities. Guards will have second thoughts driving into this 90s version of def at PF and Center.
Remove Mitch and add Obi. Now u have a fast break team ready to go on runs.
Will be interesting to see which way thibs go.
BigDaddyG wrote:Jmpasq wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Hope Randle is OK. With that said….I think the best thing possible for Randle and the Knicks is the team performs GREAT without him. Then he and the team can play well without him and he doesn’t go back to his old ways.
His attitude on the court is nothing short of suck-ass.
I hope so. Trading Jules now isn't really feasible. He's making to much and he's underperforming. Since we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future, I'm rooting for him to get out of his doldrums. He said Kobe is his idol. Say what you want about Kobe, but he would never display the defeatist body language Randle has shown.
The options may be slim and the value may not be equal in our eyes but I think he's tradeable. I am sure there are some teams that have contracts they want to move, or players that haven't worked out like John Wall, or Marvin Bagley and another player to make the salaries work.
There is always an owner, gm or coach that thinks they can fix a player, especially if they are underachieving and think they are one player away from whatever goal they set forth before the season.
Yes, there are deals that could be made. But do you really want John Wall?
Didn't say I wanted him, just pointing out that there are some options...
Yeah, I get that. But my point is none of those options are appealing right now. We'd be trading Syphilis for the Clap. The team isn't missing out on a title run one way or the other, despite some unrealistic fan expectation at the beginning of the season. Let's hope they can build him back up. Then the Knicks won't be dealing from a hand of desperation if they decide to move him.
No one thought we were winning a chip. My hope was they could win a playoff series. I would of been happy with that. Knicks have a choice to make. They move forward and use the young players to bring in help to try to win a playoff series, or try to dump Randle and Fournier and keep the young players and let them grow together.
If Randle doesn't get right, what realistic piece is out there that will help the team make a decent playoff run. We get Myles Turner and what happens? Jules has the same chemistry issues he has with Fournier and Kemba on the perimeter and he has the same issues on the interior that he has with Mitch. We have some nice pieces, but RJ, who might be our most valuable trade chip, has lost luster. I like our young pieces, but the team isn't nearly as flush with assets as some posters think. I don't mind trades, but they have to make sense in the long and short term. Making a trade to cement the Knicks as a middling, low level playoff team for the next few years isn't a desirable outcome to me.
this... I love our young guys but its early and there's gonna be a LOT of changes over the next couple years. Might take a few years of plugging away until a couple of these guys pop
knicks1248 wrote:Philc1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Philc1 wrote:Oh no what are we going to do without Carmeloball for a couple games
Who's better on this team than Randle, and it's not even close.
He leads the teams in Points, Rebounds Assist, double doubles.
But we'll see what OBI does with the extra min, his perimeter game is super suspect
When 50% of the offensive possessions are the team running ISO for you to score you better lead in points and assists
Dude..Asisde from Randle
Rj is having terrible start
Fournier is having and inconsistent start and his defense is pretty bad
Mitch looks like a late 2nd rounder
Kemba was not playing well at all and was benched
Noel isn't playing close to what he was last season
OBI is shooting 20% from every where except a dunk
Randle is surrounded by struggling teammates
Teammates who suddenly stop struggling when Randle is off the court. These teammates? Don't post that weak shit here.
Sambakick wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Philc1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Philc1 wrote:Oh no what are we going to do without Carmeloball for a couple games
Who's better on this team than Randle, and it's not even close.
He leads the teams in Points, Rebounds Assist, double doubles.
But we'll see what OBI does with the extra min, his perimeter game is super suspect
When 50% of the offensive possessions are the team running ISO for you to score you better lead in points and assists
Dude..Asisde from Randle
Rj is having terrible start
Fournier is having and inconsistent start and his defense is pretty bad
Mitch looks like a late 2nd rounder
Kemba was not playing well at all and was benched
Noel isn't playing close to what he was last season
OBI is shooting 20% from every where except a dunk
Randle is surrounded by struggling teammates
Teammates who suddenly stop struggling when Randle is off the court. These teammates? Don't post that weak shit here.
Entire roster morphed into bricklayers tonight. Was it because Randle wasn’t around? Probably not I guess
NYKMentality wrote:The hatred for Julius Randle is disgusting. Led us to the playoffs for the 1st time since 2012-2013.
NBAs most improved player.
NBA All-Star.
But yet some of you guys are "celebrating" his covid protocol and quitting on him only 35 games into the season?
Some of you Julius Randle critucs are too clueless to comprehend NY was 17-18 after 35 games last year and also only 25-27 after 52 games last year.
(thnx God coach Thibs didn't quit on Julius Randle like you guys do).
Thankfully the only games we'll be without Randle are against 3 crap teams OKC/Toronto/Indiana/.
So even if we go 3-0 without Randle it means absolutely nothingness in regards to "proving NY doesn't need him".
Bump.
Knicks scored a season low 80 points tonight during Julius Randle's 1st game out of action.
Obi Toppin did absolutely nothingness vs. starters (rather than bench players).
"but but but it's all Julius Randle fault. The offensive team killer. The iso black hole. The player who prevents NY from demolishing opposing starting 5s bla bla blah
80 points later? 😅
NYKMentality wrote:MS wrote:
Hes been disengaged this year, is struggling with his shot and isnt the same player is a big reason why we are out of the playoffs.
Big reason why we're out of the playoffs? We're 1.5 games back of the 6th seed and also 1.5 games back of the NBAs 10th best record.
Was Julius Randle the reason we were out of the playoffs last year @ 25-27 and 2.0 games below .500 after 52 games?!?
Oh how quickly this fan base has already forgotten.
Knicks wouldn't even have 5 wins this year without Julius Randle. 7-9 max.
Like I said.
NY wouldn't even have 7-9 wins without Julius Randle. And a tank team without him last year too.
And why? Because as a veteran and now an All-Star he takes pressure off of his younger teammates and puts that NY pressure on himself.
Box scores won't show you how Julius Randle is the only player opposing teams have to game plan for and focus on (which is not the case for Obi Toppin coming off the bench as a high energy role playing role player).
You Julius Randle critics have been lying to us the entire time.
knicks1248 wrote:OBI time
Our 1st post of the thread after finding out our 27 year All-Star is out because of Covid protocol was "Obi time"?
Really?
Obi Toppin:
27 minutes.
5 points.
1/4 from the field (25%).
7 rebounds.
1 assist.
0 steals.
0 blocks.
Knicks score a season low 80 points tonight without our All-Star.
And we're talking about "OBI TIME"?
Obi chocked. You can't play that poorly when you're given this opportunity.
SergioNYK wrote:Obi chocked. You can't play that poorly when you're given this opportunity.
He's not ready to start vs. Opposing starters just yet.
Only genius fans (who think they are smarter than coach Thibs) would ever disagree with Obi developing behind an All Star PF Julius Randle.
NYKMentality/Julius Randle
You said yourself that it's not Toppin vs Randle so maybe wait 3 full games before climaxing when we don't play well? Maybe a New Years resolution?
I thought Obi was fine. Early on he rebounded well. HE didn't really play enough minutes and they needed to feed him in the post. He had a short stretch where he looked like he wanted to post, Drew some fouls and missed a bunch of free throws. After that he never got back into the game.
SergioNYK wrote:Obi chocked. You can't play that poorly when you're given this opportunity.
I’m hoping it was first start jitters. It better be
I haven’t read this whole thread, but I’m sure it’s mainly filled with heartfelt sentiment that Julius and family are well.
I know many have been desensitized over time, and due to vaccines helping lessen effects, but if I had a family and newborn I’d still be very concerned.
Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Obi chocked. You can't play that poorly when you're given this opportunity.
I’m hoping it was first start jitters. It better be
jitters?
He can't shoot as starter or off the bench, he is just athletic and can finish around the rim, and occasionally make a base line 3.
knicks1248 wrote:Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Obi chocked. You can't play that poorly when you're given this opportunity.
I’m hoping it was first start jitters. It better be
jitters?
He can shoot as starter or off the bench, he is just athletic and can finish around the rim, and occasionally make a base line 3.
Starting can mentally be a big adjustment for young players. I remember John Wallace having a good rookie year for us coming off the bench in 1997, then he was asked to start one game in the playoffs and self destructed
ToddTT wrote:I haven’t read this whole thread, but I’m sure it’s mainly filled with heartfelt sentiment that Julius and family are well.I know many have been desensitized over time, and due to vaccines helping lessen effects, but if I had a family and newborn I’d still be very concerned.
As far as we know he’s just in protocols and hasn’t tested positive himself, just came in contact with someone who did
