Knicks · LEAVE JULIUS RANDLE ALONE! (page 2)

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

I agree. An alpha likely makes everyone on the team better. My general issue however is with the fans constantly calling Randle "trash". There are examples in this very thread.

I said borderline trash for most of the season. His usage is way to high for his production so far. He's playing like a role player who's been given the greenlight. Yes, his raw stats look decent, but they get shakier and shakier the more you scrutinize them.

Rubio would have helped us take a step. Lillard is an alpha but would cost to much. I'd much prefer we don't gut our young roster when it may be easier to replace Randle's production without giving up the farm and overpaying for an alpha to help Randle understand how to play. Some have mentioned Jerami Grant or Christian Wood - would either offer similar production (while not holding the ball) and help the team chemistry?

jskinny35 wrote:Rubio would have helped us take a step. Lillard is an alpha but would cost to much. I'd much prefer we don't gut our young roster when it may be easier to replace Randle's production without giving up the farm and overpaying for an alpha to help Randle understand how to play. Some have mentioned Jerami Grant or Christian Wood - would either offer similar production (while not holding the ball) and help the team chemistry?

Christian Wood, while a solid talent, would be disastrous for team chemistry.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Rubio would have helped us take a step. Lillard is an alpha but would cost to much. I'd much prefer we don't gut our young roster when it may be easier to replace Randle's production without giving up the farm and overpaying for an alpha to help Randle understand how to play. Some have mentioned Jerami Grant or Christian Wood - would either offer similar production (while not holding the ball) and help the team chemistry?

Christian Wood, while a solid talent, would be disastrous for team chemistry.

Yep - I knew he/Wood had problems in the past but just read he had a halftime altercation with his coach yesterday. Pass!!

For some reason couldn’t help but think of this when I saw the thread title…

JesseDark wrote:

Thanks for posting. Always wondered what happend to this kid over the years. He is now a jet/knick fan and loves Randle!
Good for him!! LOL

Original Poster is giving the same vibe.

Look. Just trade Randle while this all looks like an anomaly.

Get some body. Preferably a sleeper (not on the court though).

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

fwk00 wrote:Look. Just trade Randle while this all looks like an anomaly.

Get some body. Preferably a sleeper (not on the court though).

Noticed for years that your solution is to trade anyone you do not like.

Who do you suggest we sign? Trade for? Do you like anyone on the current roster? It is easy to say trade this guy or that guy but who are you replacing them with?

JesseDark wrote:

This was golden. Made me laugh @ myself forreal.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

Do you think Rondo would have helped? Not what I mentioned but he did win 2 chips as a PG.

HofstraBBall wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

Do you think Rondo would have helped? Not what I mentioned but he did win 2 chips as a PG.

Yes.

Groom him as an assistant coach.

HofstraBBall wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

Do you think Rondo would have helped? Not what I mentioned but he did win 2 chips as a PG.

Boston's version on Rondo, yes. Dude is 35 now and is at best a backup and looks like he is shot.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

agree... remember when everyone laughed at me offering $25mm to Derozan? The guy who scores and moves the ball really well? I wanted to give big money to Lowry/Conley or Derozan and fill the roster out with young guys after that. Oh well... we had our big cap space moment and failed to acquire anything of substance at all. So far Leon has not done a great job

I wanted Chris Paul... got laughed out of town for that one also. Who needs a old floor general? (everyone)

As for Randle he needs to play better. He's got his lowest EFG% since his rookie year. That's not max player. That's really bad. When he plays better the critics will stop their noise. That's how sports works

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

agree... remember when everyone laughed at me offering $25mm to Derozan? The guy who scores and moves the ball really well? I wanted to give big money to Lowry/Conley or Derozan and fill the roster out with young guys after that. Oh well... we had our big cap space moment and failed to acquire anything of substance at all. So far Leon has not done a great job

I wanted Chris Paul... got laughed out of town for that one also. Who needs a old floor general? (everyone)

As for Randle he needs to play better. He's got his lowest EFG% since his rookie year. That's not max player. That's really bad. When he plays better the critics will stop their noise. That's how sports works

I personally do not think Randle and RJ are good facilitators. I think last year they did a tremendous job at filling in that void and also providing scoring on top of that. They both had high usage and it was to their advantage. IMHO neither are good team managers, maybe that changes down the line. IMHO neither are high IQ decision makers, maybe that too changes.

DeRozan would have taken the ball and decision making out of their hands. He definitely would have crowded the paint opportunities some but I don't think that would have been detrimental to other the things going on and would have enhanced Randle/RJ scoring.

Signing a DeRozan type player is a lost opportunity but maybe there never was one to begin with; never know where the player himself wants to go.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

agree... remember when everyone laughed at me offering $25mm to Derozan? The guy who scores and moves the ball really well? I wanted to give big money to Lowry/Conley or Derozan and fill the roster out with young guys after that. Oh well... we had our big cap space moment and failed to acquire anything of substance at all. So far Leon has not done a great job

I wanted Chris Paul... got laughed out of town for that one also. Who needs a old floor general? (everyone)

As for Randle he needs to play better. He's got his lowest EFG% since his rookie year. That's not max player. That's really bad. When he plays better the critics will stop their noise. That's how sports works

It’s not even the low FG% that bothers me. It’s the constent shakiness that comes from the over-dribbling in traffic, the lack of commitment on defense and always yelling at his teammates and refs. If he was “only” missing shots, I would be far more understanding. RJ is “only” missing shots.

Allanfan20 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the best player and the main player teams game plan for. It’s only natural to point at the best player, when the team is struggling and he’s not playing up to expectations. That’s why him and other star players on any team get paid the big bucks. With that payment comes expectations and scrutiny. Especially when the star player is learning on the job. B4 NY Randle was the 2nd or 3rd option on any team ever. Relax. Randle is exactly what you see.

This is simple for the FO. U either build around him or you replace him with a different star. We currently don’t have an up and coming star player that’s ready right now. That’s what 1 game w/o Randle showed us. He needs help. Or we remove him and start over for the 100th time.

Speaking of passing judgement over 1 game. That’s a dangerous game to play. Several players in the hall of fame or like dirk who’s on his way, had terrible games during their career. Some had terrible seasons. So be carful on making decisions on a small sample size.

It's not the perfect analogy or scenario but the Knicks are in that same space as Phoenix is before CP3 got to the Suns. The Suns top 3 guys are obviously much more skilled/talented. They had Booker, Ayton and Bridges with Payne off the bench. Oubre and Saric and Rubio are their next tier. That teams last iteration before CP3 was 34 wins. The year before that they had 19 wins (and drafted Ayton, Bridges).

The Knicks need a CP3 type. Not necessarily a PG but an Alpha.

Good analogy. Mentioned on other threads how we needed a CP3 type. Especially as I see Randle not ready for that Alpha role just yet. Think Randle has not had that for some time. Someone to teach him high IQ basketball. Problem is that there are not too many players like CP3 out there. Hard to find a perennial All Star, Alpha, long term vet, floor general, great scorer with a super high basketball IQ. Can't say that I can even think of one that would be available who plays a different position. The Knicks need that ONE guy that players respect and can show them
high percentage/IQ basketball.

agree... remember when everyone laughed at me offering $25mm to Derozan? The guy who scores and moves the ball really well? I wanted to give big money to Lowry/Conley or Derozan and fill the roster out with young guys after that. Oh well... we had our big cap space moment and failed to acquire anything of substance at all. So far Leon has not done a great job

I wanted Chris Paul... got laughed out of town for that one also. Who needs a old floor general? (everyone)

As for Randle he needs to play better. He's got his lowest EFG% since his rookie year. That's not max player. That's really bad. When he plays better the critics will stop their noise. That's how sports works

It’s not even the low FG% that bothers me. It’s the constent shakiness that comes from the over-dribbling in traffic, the lack of commitment on defense and always yelling at his teammates and refs. If he was “only” missing shots, I would be far more understanding. RJ is “only” missing shots.

it's all on Julius though... our team is "deep" and it has been "deep" since we got Glen Rice, Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Lazaro Borrell, Vernon Maxwell, Vladimir Stepania, Howard Eisley, and Shandon Anderson. When you aren't allocating cap space to a star, you end up with Evan Fournier or THJ, and then you have to package them with picks/prospects/unicorns to get someone else to take the contract

So I definitely cosign on leaving Julius the eff alone. The last thing I want to see happen is the pendulum to swing to the vitriolic part and then Julius is live steaming himself eating Vaseline by the fistful

Julius Randle has cleared the NBA’s health and safety protocols and is questionable for Tuesday night’s game against the Indiana Pacers, the team announced.

Thank god.

Obi last 2 games has me really wondering