“Their level of competitiveness and unselfishness is so much greater than the starters... I love the way this second unit is competing and sharing the ball. It’s not a one man issue with he staring lineup, it’s a FIVE man issue”
-Jeff Van Gundy
Let my people RUN!
This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley.
Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
Or Pastor Mark Jax offers marriage counseling.
jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
We got suc k erred again with money —- how many x in 20 years has Dolan been jobbed? This was one of the worst spending sprees of that time.
Pat Riley has created 3 championship teams in the same time
I completely agree with JVG's assessment. I read it in the paper this morning and it struck a chord. I forgot the game was on last night, saw they were down at half, and then when I flip the game on it was already over so I turned it off. I assume the starters started the third qusrter?
I really do not understand what the reluctance is here to bench the entire starting five. Clearly I never hooped to the levels these guys have, but I have been on teams were the coach is like 'Not good enough' and subs out the entire starting five to send a freaking message. Do I think the bench should start the restr of the regular season? Fuck no. But We all see it, our starting five is playing like a steaming pile of shit and the backups are usually the ones bailing the starters out
jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
Van Gundy's points were 100% on point...Not sure what Van Gundy's perceived coaching flaws have to do with the accuracy of his statement.
jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
In fairness after the 1st unit completely sh1t their pants opening the game, the 2nd unit entered in the first half and was able to cut the lead to 10, only to have the first unit completely sh1t their pants again starting the second half.
jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
Unselfish.
The starters had a TOTAL of 7 assists
The Knicks reserves had 17.
You do the math.
Uptown wrote:jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
Van Gundy's points were 100% on point...Not sure what Van Gundy's perceived coaching flaws have to do with the accuracy of his statement.
Agree....And we see this at the college level all the time. Sometime at the NBA level. I believe Coach Larry Brown did this before. But in college, I've seen coaches sub out the entire starting 5....put in the bench players (That doesn't include Deuce by the way, he's not even part of the bench rotation). And while the bench is playing, the entire starting 5 is getting chewed out. Then they sub the starters back in.
JVG's coaching resume and decisions he made with a roster back in the 90s has zero to do with his 2022 mind set from an announcer and sports analyst. Clearly he miss NY and the knicks. You can tell he's been following this team very closely lately, based on his insight, which echos what some of us fans been saying for a while. So it's absolutely refreshing to hear this on live TV yesterday.
I also love when he said "sometimes it's not about talent, you can gather all the talent in the world. It's about fit and energy" He also said "the our FA additions appears to be a response to the lack of offense in the Hawks series last year." That was a calculated error on Leon Rose.
I know 99% of knick fans in the forum thinks Payton is trash. Well, phoenix is loving his defense I'm sure. He was guarding Clarkson very tight and forced a few TOs. Clarkson is a SG. Phx is getting that type of defense from their backup PG. Payton was not trash, he was simply playing starter minutes, because our roster wasn't complete like phx. Right now, if he was a backup, that would fit his role perfectly. Similar to this year. I believe we have players playing out of position. EF is a backup. Randle this season looks like a backup PF but he's a borderline starter. Mitch is a backup center. Kemba at this stage of his career, he's a backup PG.
Uptown wrote:jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley. Yes, that's it. The FO gives Randle and Fournier and Kemba all that money, but JVG knows that starting Deuce McBride and Obi and Sims is the way to turn the season around. I like how the yoots look during garbage time too. Very competitive when you're down 20 in the 4th quarter.
Maybe there's a good reason why VanGundy's not coaching anymore...
Next up, Mark Jackson weighs in on how he would guide this team to the playoffs...
Van Gundy's points were 100% on point...Not sure what Van Gundy's perceived coaching flaws have to do with the accuracy of his statement.
Everybody associated with the NBA knows that the starting line up make zero sense
JVG is just the first person to pointing it out on national TV.
The reason we brought most of our guys back is THIBS LOVES CONTINUITY, he said it a million times.
His reason for taking KEMBA out of the starting line up had nothing to do with change and more to do with KEMBA not playing when he needed him because ROSE was out.
Why is back in the starting line up now if he was such a problem a month ago?
I thought this was an interesting take
martin wrote:Also
Looks like a solid justification for a Randle / Kemba trade. Free up Obi and IQ. I love the chemistry those guys have. Imagine Thigs giving them Randle minutes? Win or lose, we will be all over ESPN.
martin wrote:I thought this was an interesting take
This report came out during Kemba's benching but it never named specific players. Now we know EF is one of them.
martin wrote:I thought this was an interesting take
Randle supported the benching of Kemba.
This movie is playing out exactly how it did in MINNY, he benched young guys to play vets that were not winning. Players felt like Thibs was showing favorites to his Bulls players and the Locker room went to sht.
I have been one of Randles biggest supporters, but I think i have had it with him
What a coincidence Begley has a new article on this issue. Thibs catering to Randle might destroy any chance at a healthy team chemistry.
jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley.
Do you remember that playoffs? Ewing was hurt in the ECF. They never had a chance in that series. Dudley started the first two games while Camby racked up 5 fouls each coming off the bench in a 24 minute split with Dudley. Then Camby started and fouled out of game 3 in 16 minutes of action. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs split time in a platoon as well. The criticism of JVG is dumb.
misterearl wrote:“Their level of competitiveness and unselfishness is so much greater than the starters... I love the way this second unit is competing and sharing the ball. It’s not a one man issue with he staring lineup, it’s a FIVE man issue”
-Jeff Van GundyLet my people RUN!
Gotta say he is right. But what does that really mean? The starters play the system put in place around Randle. It is not a pass cut, motion, drive and kick, ball reversal type of offense. It is Iso scattered around some PnR. That is what worked last year. And seems to be the scheme in place this year. Whereas the second unit is more of a "Team" offense. As there is no ONE go-to guy. Every Coach and fan loves to see the team type of game and not an "Iso" type scheme focussed on maybe one or two individual players. Problem is, if you look at the teams that win chips, they are usually the latter. Was watching Utah last night vs Suns. Same shit. The only difference is that they hit shots. Suns had Booker on one side of the floor and CP3 was the first pass out. No major ball movement. Not a whole bunch of hard hat guys "getting theirs". It is what the NBA is. Just watch more NBA teams play on a consistent basis and you will realize it is highly dominated by player-first schemes.I would be all for a system that has more of a team approach, however, that would take the Knicks organization changing many of their parts. Which will take time and I am sure a lot of pain on the way. The question is, where does that ultimately get us? A much more fun brand of basketball to watch but annual visits to the lottery? Haven't we seen those types of years too often?
As for the second unit vs the first. The Knicks starters are struggling and are trying too hard to do things themselves. Do not think it is them being selfish but rather trying to do too much and contribute. Happens to a lot of players when they are struggling. Problem is that usually only makes things worse. They are letting this get in the way of sharing the ball and playing the game the right way. The second unit came in down a lot with absolutely no pressure on them. Yes, they had more energy but the circumstances are quite different for them. These kids are happy to come in and get some time with no pressure on their shoulders. They are also fighting for playing time and have pent-up energy from not playing for considerable minutes. They are also going against other teams' second units. So there is that. My coaches have always said the difference between NBA pros and every other guy that has talent is consistency. Most players at this level can have a good game. However, what makes them NBA-level starters is their consistency. Can't say that any of the guys on the second unit have shown that in large sample sizes. As we saw with Obi, it is much different starting than coming off the bench. Then again, the starters are doing the same. Think Thibs has to at least try some of the younger guys a bit earlier in games. Right now we have NO ONE playing on a consistent basis. And as mentioned Consistency=Success
While I have been a big supporter in playing Obi more and moving on from Randle asap - Obi just needs more minutes on the court and will need time to figure out what he is as an NBA player. He's more of a 3/4 to me - despite his defensive struggles. Somehow he runs around crazy and makes occasional plays, hits from outside every now and then - but hustles which makes the ball movement and pace better.
Offensively Obi reminds me more of a Shawn Marion type in that he has an odd spot up 3pt shot and relies on his instincts, hustle and athleticism mostly. I don't see the Amare comp anymore but maybe he will develop a few post moves and a face up j.
After last nights game - I shift more of the focus to Thibs (vs Randle) as Thibs stubbornness appears to be catching up with him.
When we compare starting lineup vs reserves - we have to remember that the reserves are playing against the Heat's reserves so starting them doesn't necessarily translate as well if the talent is less. Thibs says he's all about effort and hustle - so I think messing up the "perfect" bench and shifting a few would work better as Thibs doesn't seem to have the patience to let the young players play and take their lumps. IQ and Toppin playing more minutes with RJ and Randle would be where I would start (to evaluate).
