martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Clean wrote:I would not give up a lot for half a season of a player. People think it's a lock to come back but what if he hates Thibs system? or the the team dynamic? What if some other team pulls out the money bags during free agency? Too many questions to OK a trade that will drain you of assets and potentially be left with nothing in half a season. We already sent out a pick for Cam that might turn out to be wasted if Cam does not work out for us.
It’s assumed he would come back. Based on his relationship with the front office there would be a deal in place. This isn’t a random player.
But Clean is right though from a negotiation standpoint. Every team in the league will tell Dallas he is an UFA and here is a top 18 protected pick and a low level player.
And Knicks will not negotiate against themselves and should only offer just a tiny tiny bit (if that) above every other team in the league.
They can just keep him. Knicks are over the cap and there isn't exactly a ton of teams with the 25 million in open cap space to dump players on. I would love Brunson but this just seems far fetched.
I like Brunson if they move Randle and want to get a PG for RJ
Jmpasq wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Clean wrote:I would not give up a lot for half a season of a player. People think it's a lock to come back but what if he hates Thibs system? or the the team dynamic? What if some other team pulls out the money bags during free agency? Too many questions to OK a trade that will drain you of assets and potentially be left with nothing in half a season. We already sent out a pick for Cam that might turn out to be wasted if Cam does not work out for us.
It’s assumed he would come back. Based on his relationship with the front office there would be a deal in place. This isn’t a random player.
But Clean is right though from a negotiation standpoint. Every team in the league will tell Dallas he is an UFA and here is a top 18 protected pick and a low level player.
And Knicks will not negotiate against themselves and should only offer just a tiny tiny bit (if that) above every other team in the league.
They can just keep him. Knicks are over the cap and there isn't exactly a ton of teams with the 25 million in open cap space to dump players on. I would love Brunson but this just seems far fetched.
Maybe I am not understanding your post above.
Dallas has to worry about losing Brunson for nothing (if that's something they worry about).
They can certainly play chicken with Brunson and wait til the offseason. Or they can take what other teams will offer.
Most other teams right now won't offer much but maybe I'm wrong on that.
martin wrote:Jmpasq wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Clean wrote:I would not give up a lot for half a season of a player. People think it's a lock to come back but what if he hates Thibs system? or the the team dynamic? What if some other team pulls out the money bags during free agency? Too many questions to OK a trade that will drain you of assets and potentially be left with nothing in half a season. We already sent out a pick for Cam that might turn out to be wasted if Cam does not work out for us.
It’s assumed he would come back. Based on his relationship with the front office there would be a deal in place. This isn’t a random player.
But Clean is right though from a negotiation standpoint. Every team in the league will tell Dallas he is an UFA and here is a top 18 protected pick and a low level player.
And Knicks will not negotiate against themselves and should only offer just a tiny tiny bit (if that) above every other team in the league.
They can just keep him. Knicks are over the cap and there isn't exactly a ton of teams with the 25 million in open cap space to dump players on. I would love Brunson but this just seems far fetched.
Maybe I am not understanding your post above.
Dallas has to worry about losing Brunson for nothing (if that's something they worry about).
They can certainly play chicken with Brunson and wait til the offseason. Or they can take what other teams will offer.
Most other teams right now won't offer much but maybe I'm wrong on that.
The Brunson free agency is playing out like a broken record. Lebron teased the Knicks ruthlessly. Durant was treated as a sure thing just a season or two ago.
Now Brunson with all of the same whisper campaign wind at his back. *Who* can doubt he'll sign a Knick?
Most of us know better.
Cuban is a shrewd businessman and Brunson is a real valuable asset. Cuban may, under no circumstances, want to lose Brunson. After all, Steph Curry, publicly wanted to be a Knick and yet contract after contract remains a Warrior.
But Cuban isn't an idiot either. Maybe Brunson has his heart set on being a Knick. Presumably Cuban has had that possibility explored through back channels. And if that's the case - Brunson is bailing, Cuban has an incentive to trade him either soon or during the summer.
IFF (if and only if) Brunson is available, the Knicks FO needs to get that deal done. It will be an overpay. just deal with it now. And if the FO is stupid enough to YET AGAIN FAIL on securing Brunson, all hell should break loose because... Knicks history of futility.
But let's assume Brunson, for reasons beyond anyone's control, cannot be secured. In that case the Knicks need to cut bait on waiting for THE PERFECT PG and trade for someone who is at least competent, fits, and has a few years left in the tank. No, he won't be an elation but all he has to do is stabilize the starting/endgame position.
What's going on here? The Mavs are playing some of their best ball of the Donicic era and you guys think they will trade their second best guy for draft picks? Do you know what happens to GM's in Slovenia who pull that shit? Let's wait until the summer and see what happens, Then would be the time to work on a sign and trade.
Oh my, we have degraded to the point of anointing Brunson as a franchise savior. To the point of dying to overpay for him. What a step down from the LeBron or Durant wet dreams.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck...In this trade Knicks send Fournier (and picks?) to Toronto
Toronto sends Dragic to Dallas (and picks from NY?)
Dallas sends Brunson, Bullock, and Finney Smith to New York.
This would be a good opportunity to see the value of all those second round picks.
wargames wrote:I like Brunson if they move Randle and want to get a PG for RJ
Brunson would be helpful for both Barrett and Randle.
Knixkik wrote:wargames wrote:I like Brunson if they move Randle and want to get a PG for RJ
Brunson would be helpful for both Barrett and Randle.
True, but I think Randle is out of here next week. With that said the Knicks best chance to get him regardless if Randle is here or not is to trade for expiring contracts and offer him money over the summer.
Dallas is a good team there is no way in h they are trading Brunson
fwk00 wrote:martin wrote:Jmpasq wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Clean wrote:I would not give up a lot for half a season of a player. People think it's a lock to come back but what if he hates Thibs system? or the the team dynamic? What if some other team pulls out the money bags during free agency? Too many questions to OK a trade that will drain you of assets and potentially be left with nothing in half a season. We already sent out a pick for Cam that might turn out to be wasted if Cam does not work out for us.
It’s assumed he would come back. Based on his relationship with the front office there would be a deal in place. This isn’t a random player.
But Clean is right though from a negotiation standpoint. Every team in the league will tell Dallas he is an UFA and here is a top 18 protected pick and a low level player.
And Knicks will not negotiate against themselves and should only offer just a tiny tiny bit (if that) above every other team in the league.
They can just keep him. Knicks are over the cap and there isn't exactly a ton of teams with the 25 million in open cap space to dump players on. I would love Brunson but this just seems far fetched.
Maybe I am not understanding your post above.
Dallas has to worry about losing Brunson for nothing (if that's something they worry about).
They can certainly play chicken with Brunson and wait til the offseason. Or they can take what other teams will offer.
Most other teams right now won't offer much but maybe I'm wrong on that.
The Brunson free agency is playing out like a broken record. Lebron teased the Knicks ruthlessly. Durant was treated as a sure thing just a season or two ago.
Now Brunson with all of the same whisper campaign wind at his back. *Who* can doubt he'll sign a Knick?
Most of us know better.
Cuban is a shrewd businessman and Brunson is a real valuable asset. Cuban may, under no circumstances, want to lose Brunson. After all, Steph Curry, publicly wanted to be a Knick and yet contract after contract remains a Warrior.
But Cuban isn't an idiot either. Maybe Brunson has his heart set on being a Knick. Presumably Cuban has had that possibility explored through back channels. And if that's the case - Brunson is bailing, Cuban has an incentive to trade him either soon or during the summer.
IFF (if and only if) Brunson is available, the Knicks FO needs to get that deal done. It will be an overpay. just deal with it now. And if the FO is stupid enough to YET AGAIN FAIL on securing Brunson, all hell should break loose because... Knicks history of futility.
But let's assume Brunson, for reasons beyond anyone's control, cannot be secured. In that case the Knicks need to cut bait on waiting for THE PERFECT PG and trade for someone who is at least competent, fits, and has a few years left in the tank. No, he won't be an elation but all he has to do is stabilize the starting/endgame position.
Agree with several of your points. One thing to note is that Brunson is obviously NOT LBJ or Durant. Yet some on here are acting like he will be just as much of an impact. This is the recipe I am afraid of. Knicks overpaying for a player that has not proven anything. Only to realize, in true Knick tradition, that he is not who they thought he was. Brunson is a solid player but imo is not worth the price suggested or assets. If Knicks think he is worth $20M then they would be smart to wait for this summers FA to sign him. When they would not need to give up assets. This is a mini Melo scenerio without the Melo.
The Knicks have “touched base” with the Mavericks about guard Jalen Brunson, Ian Begley of SNY.tv said on a recent podcast (hat tip to Grant Afseth of SI.com). According to Begley, there’s a team that plans to offer Brunson more than $20MM a year in free agency this summer, which might make Dallas more willing to part with him.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/01/knic...Love NY media.
"Touched base" = Rose calling and asking if they would take Kemba and a second. Cuban, No we want Rose, RJ , IQ, Grimes and a first.
"One team said to be willing to give him $20M" = Brunson's agent doing his job and putting it out there but failing to mention it is a team from Dubai.
The hype as savior is not media, its fans clamoring for one.
Friend Leon/WWW likely to have discussed Jalen’s market value with him and his dad.
What are Dallas choices. Let him or FInny Smith go?
FOr the record, KP makes 50% more than Randle per season. Dallas needs to look at big picture. Brunson as a starter next to Luka? If so thats a 20mm per year player. Is he that good and is he right for that role? Can’t pay him that money to be a back up.
Logially we trade Redish and IQ for Brunson. Thats a great haul for them and we get a starting PG.
Is he athletic enough to be a starter and defend to Thibs standards?
IQ fans, who do you like better? Him or Brunson?
Nalod wrote:The hype as savior is not media, its fans clamoring for one.
Friend Leon/WWW likely to have discussed Jalen’s market value with him and his dad.
What are Dallas choices. Let him or FInny Smith go?
FOr the record, KP makes 50% more than Randle per season. Dallas needs to look at big picture. Brunson as a starter next to Luka? If so thats a 20mm per year player. Is he that good and is he right for that role? Can’t pay him that money to be a back up.
Logially we trade Redish and IQ for Brunson. Thats a great haul for them and we get a starting PG.
Is he athletic enough to be a starter and defend to Thibs standards?
IQ fans, who do you like better? Him or Brunson?
Or they move Fournier for an expiring contract and they can then chase Brunson in FA. No need to give up young talent.
wargames wrote:Nalod wrote:The hype as savior is not media, its fans clamoring for one.
Friend Leon/WWW likely to have discussed Jalen’s market value with him and his dad.
What are Dallas choices. Let him or FInny Smith go?
FOr the record, KP makes 50% more than Randle per season. Dallas needs to look at big picture. Brunson as a starter next to Luka? If so thats a 20mm per year player. Is he that good and is he right for that role? Can’t pay him that money to be a back up.
Logially we trade Redish and IQ for Brunson. Thats a great haul for them and we get a starting PG.
Is he athletic enough to be a starter and defend to Thibs standards?
IQ fans, who do you like better? Him or Brunson?
Or they move Fournier for an expiring contract and they can then chase Brunson in FA. No need to give up young talent.
Its the same thing. What is the expiring contract? Who wants EF for expiring cap?
Expiring contracts are not as valuable as they once were.
Brunson is unrestricted? Not many teams have cap and those that do have a need for him?
I’d have traded The charlotte pick, Knox and IQ for Brunson if I felt he was our starting PG. We can’t keep all young players. Im not sold on IQ long term and at some point needs to be paid or traded. I like the kid, but we have to use our depth at some point to consolidate. Grimes off at 6-5 gives us what IQ does well with better defense. IQ as playmaker is his future rise in value.
Nalod wrote:wargames wrote:Nalod wrote:The hype as savior is not media, its fans clamoring for one.
Friend Leon/WWW likely to have discussed Jalen’s market value with him and his dad.
What are Dallas choices. Let him or FInny Smith go?
FOr the record, KP makes 50% more than Randle per season. Dallas needs to look at big picture. Brunson as a starter next to Luka? If so thats a 20mm per year player. Is he that good and is he right for that role? Can’t pay him that money to be a back up.
Logially we trade Redish and IQ for Brunson. Thats a great haul for them and we get a starting PG.
Is he athletic enough to be a starter and defend to Thibs standards?
IQ fans, who do you like better? Him or Brunson?
Or they move Fournier for an expiring contract and they can then chase Brunson in FA. No need to give up young talent.
Its the same thing. What is the expiring contract? Who wants EF for expiring cap?
Expiring contracts are not as valuable as they once were.
Brunson is unrestricted? Not many teams have cap and those that do have a need for him?
I’d have traded The charlotte pick, Knox and IQ for Brunson if I felt he was our starting PG. We can’t keep all young players. Im not sold on IQ long term and at some point needs to be paid or traded. I like the kid, but we have to use our depth at some point to consolidate. Grimes off at 6-5 gives us what IQ does well with better defense. IQ as playmaker is his future rise in value.
There are a couple. One version I heard was Fournier to the Cavs for Ricky Rubio and a 2nd. There are other scenarios. The thing that works in the Knicks benefit is FA this summer is actually really bad. Maybe the worst it’s been in a decade. So trades to improve make more sense.
If we are in fact moving on and trading Melo - I really think that changes the urgency to trade Fournier. While not a fan of his before or presently -he may blossom in a more ball movement style of play. He's inconsistent, but I think some of that was adjusting to playing off of a ball dominant forward and new teammates. He would probably be best in a 6th man role and while he's overpaid for that role - we could give him the rest of the season to see how he adjusts if we make a Randle trade.
wargames wrote:Nalod wrote:wargames wrote:Nalod wrote:The hype as savior is not media, its fans clamoring for one.
Friend Leon/WWW likely to have discussed Jalen’s market value with him and his dad.
What are Dallas choices. Let him or FInny Smith go?
FOr the record, KP makes 50% more than Randle per season. Dallas needs to look at big picture. Brunson as a starter next to Luka? If so thats a 20mm per year player. Is he that good and is he right for that role? Can’t pay him that money to be a back up.
Logially we trade Redish and IQ for Brunson. Thats a great haul for them and we get a starting PG.
Is he athletic enough to be a starter and defend to Thibs standards?
IQ fans, who do you like better? Him or Brunson?
Or they move Fournier for an expiring contract and they can then chase Brunson in FA. No need to give up young talent.
Its the same thing. What is the expiring contract? Who wants EF for expiring cap?
Expiring contracts are not as valuable as they once were.
Brunson is unrestricted? Not many teams have cap and those that do have a need for him?
I’d have traded The charlotte pick, Knox and IQ for Brunson if I felt he was our starting PG. We can’t keep all young players. Im not sold on IQ long term and at some point needs to be paid or traded. I like the kid, but we have to use our depth at some point to consolidate. Grimes off at 6-5 gives us what IQ does well with better defense. IQ as playmaker is his future rise in value.
There are a couple. One version I heard was Fournier to the Cavs for Ricky Rubio and a 2nd. There are other scenarios. The thing that works in the Knicks benefit is FA this summer is actually really bad. Maybe the worst it’s been in a decade. So trades to improve make more sense.
During the last FA period, Fournier was simply the statistically best player the Knicks could possibly sign after none of the premium players signed here. He's an analytics wonderkind.
Trading Fournier must be a low priority unless the trade involves a significant talent coming back (e.g. Randall, Fournier, ++) for someone who is an upgrade (say, Brunson).
Otherwise there's no reason for a fire sale.
As an aside, I love Rubio as a player but that ship has sailed for the Knicks. Nothing is more regrettable than the Knicks having the opportunity in previous years to acquire Rubio or Rhondo or...
We need to stop waiting/anticipating a perfect PG and simply get someone competent. Makes me crazy that the same old narrative plays out year after year after year.
BRIGGS wrote:Dallas is a good team there is no way in h they are trading Brunson
I don't see them trading him either unless its for someone better under contract. These Knick packages are shit and make no sense
Nalod wrote:The hype as savior is not media, its fans clamoring for one.
Friend Leon/WWW likely to have discussed Jalen’s market value with him and his dad.
What are Dallas choices. Let him or FInny Smith go?
FOr the record, KP makes 50% more than Randle per season. Dallas needs to look at big picture. Brunson as a starter next to Luka? If so thats a 20mm per year player. Is he that good and is he right for that role? Can’t pay him that money to be a back up.
Logially we trade Redish and IQ for Brunson. Thats a great haul for them and we get a starting PG.
Is he athletic enough to be a starter and defend to Thibs standards?
IQ fans, who do you like better? Him or Brunson?
Why do they have to let either go? Am I missing something or do they not own both players bird rights? Can't they jsut pay whatever the market bares?
