Knicks · Knicks Should Attempt To Trade Julius Randle To The Portland Trail Blazers This Coming 2022 Offseason (page 1)
Trade Exception - $20,864,198 (CJ McCollum trade with LAC 02/08/2023)
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
Bradley Beal, guard, Washington Wizards (player option) ...
Zach LaVine, guard, Chicago Bulls. ...
Deandre Ayton, center, Phoenix Suns (restricted) ...
Miles Bridges, forward, Charlotte Hornets (restricted). ...
Kyrie Irving, guard, Brooklyn Nets (player option) ...
Collin Sexton, guard, Cleveland Cavaliers (restricted)...
Jalen Brunson, guard, Dallas Mavericks. ...
Damon Lillard is an older player and he needs other productive players besides Anfernee Simons and what will likely be a resigning of Josh Hart.
Even with a lot of cap space clearance, can the Trail Blazers entice someone like Beal or LaVine, to leave money on the table, to come play with Lillard? Hornets likely match anything for Miles Bridges. Sexton has the injury situation. Irving has the off the court/COVID19 thing and it's hard to see right now how that plays out long term. Ayton doesn't seem like he's going to get the kind of money he wants from anyone period.
If Portland runs out of their primary options, the Knicks should offer Julius Randle into the Trail Blazers open cap space. Unfortunately Randle makes too much in 2022-23 to fit seamlessly into the McCollum trade exception, however that exception can still be useful to Portland after they trade for Randle, if they are inclined. Also Portland has been having some attendance problems, and that's more than just the pandemic and the economy in general, the team's struggles are pushing fans away. Maybe more "empty gym" type moments will give Randle a boost elsewhere in the league.
For the Knicks, they can get out from under Randle's contract, give RJ Barrett a chance to lead this team, open up minutes for Obi Toppin (I'm not a Toppin fan, but Ski Rack needs minutes to show more of what he can or can't do for this team) and move Randle to a Western Conference team, which is generally preferable for most Eastern teams in a trade.
The ask? A couple of 2nds. Or just one 2nd round pick. Or Justise Winslow and a couple of cases of Hot Pockets. The box of hobo's dick cheese from Les Grossman's office in Tropic Thunder. I don't really care at this point.
I don't assess the trade deadline moves by Portland this year to be all that great. I recognize it's sort of a complicated situation there. They weren't moving forward and Lillard is getting older and wants a better team around him. Maybe they can be hoodwinked into eating this Randle contract if he's basically "free". If the Wizards can dump Westbrook and get something out of it, maybe the Knicks can get Randle packing and luck out a little here.
Thoughts?
Discuss
Knixkik wrote:I still don’t see the benefit in trading Randle. It’s not his fault we have a flawed roster with no PG. Let’s fix that first.
And compared to other top teams, their top 2 players are both better than Randle. Instead of getting rid of someone that clearly wants to stay and win. It’s refreshing to finally hear a knick fan with a different perspective. And not the same ole rotating of players and coaches every year. While other teams who took the patient route are now seeing the fruits of their labor.
We only tried 1 time to fix this team since losing to ATL in the playoffs and it didn’t work. Kemba didn’t fix our pg problems. Fournier couldn’t fill the gap bullock left behind. There are several rotational moves internally that we havent tried yet. And with the off season coming up, there will be more opportunities. But getting rid of a player we currently built around, is like starting all over again. If we start over, what’s the guarantee that it won’t set us back even further? I’m not saying stop looking and searching for a block buster trade. But that shouldn’t be our top strategy. Like knixx said, can we fix what we have? Get this team back to how we played last year. If Elf and Bullock are so called bums (I disagree for the record) then in reality it shouldn’t be hard to replace them correct?
Lebron not walking through that door to save the day. There are no game changing free agency that bleeds orange and blue. Kat maybe but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Randle is here now and ready to win in NYC. He even took a pay cut to show he’s willing to be a team player. We need to put him in a position to win.
Meanwhile groom the yoots and hope RJ pops. Same with grimes and cam. What if all 3 of these guys turn out to be more impactful than Randle? But right now we need to fix our PG situation and add another star player to play with Randle if our top short term priority is to make the playoffs. Then Randle needs help now until those other players fully develop. If Randle is the best player on the team, we still have problems to deal with since Randle is also trying to get better at being a #1 player. Randle hasn’t learned to be #1 yet and maybe he never will. But he’s a damn good #2 and that’s not something you just throw away just because he hasn’t met #1 expectations. And I’m not sure I trust this FO to start from scratch. Randle and RJ are coach able. They are not locker room cancer type players. They want to win and need help from the FO to foster a winning environment around them starting with the coach, developing the yoots and adding the right pieces from free agency.
This is why I say sit the vets and se what we have in inventory, b4 making emotional moves because we blow a 28 pt lead or multiple 20 pt leads and currently out of the playin. Thibs saw this coming back when he benched Kemba.
Knixkik wrote:I still don’t see the benefit in trading Randle. It’s not his fault we have a flawed roster with no PG. Let’s fix that first.
Thank you. And to trade him for trash no less?
Why??? Where’s the value in that?
We’re obsessed with cap space and cap room.
Knixkik wrote:I still don’t see the benefit in trading Randle. It’s not his fault we have a flawed roster with no PG. Let’s fix that first.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-kni...
Contract: 4/$117,089,280 Avg. Salary:$29,272,320 Signed Using:Bird Free Agent:2026 / UFA
Year Age Base Salary Likely Incent. Unlikely Incent. Trade Bonus Cap Hit Dead Cap
2022-23 27 $23,760,000 $2,376,000 - $26,136,000 $23,760,000 $23,760,000($23,760,000)
2023-24 28 $25,660,800 $2,566,080 - $28,226,880 $25,660,800 $25,660,800($49,420,800)
2024-25 29 $27,561,600 $2,756,160 - $30,317,760 $27,561,600 $27,561,600($76,982,400)
2025-26 30 $29,462,400 $2,946,240 - $32,408,640 $29,462,400 $29,462,400($106,444,800)
2026-27 31 UFA
15% Trade Bonus
2025 Player Option
Incentives: (a) >= 65 reg games + playoffs, (b) All-Star roster, or (c) NBA All-Defense (1st or 2nd)
2022: LTBE: $2,376,000 ($1,188,000 All-Star roster + $1,188,000 65 GP AND Playoff), ULTBE: $0
2023: LTBE: $2,566,080 ($1,283,040 All-Star roster + $1,283,040 65 GP AND Playoff), ULTBE: $0
2024: LTBE: $2,756,160 ($1,378,080 All-Star roster + $1,378,080 65 GP AND Playoff), ULTBE: $0
2025: LTBE: $2,946,240 ($1,473,120 All-Star roster + $1,473,120 65 GP AND Playoff), ULTBE: $0
Lots of long term deals in professional sports are built upon understanding the 2nd half of that contract could end up in a player's projectible "decline phase"
The Knicks signed Randle understanding his age 29 and 30 years might not be as good as his hopeful age 27 and 28 years. This kind of effect is much larger in baseball ( i.e. Clayton Kershaw or Bryce Harper, etc, where teams understand near the end of those deals, it's going to get pretty ugly, but they are really invested in the earlier part, where those teams want to contend and get that players better younger years)
So the reasoning here is
1) Portland will have it's open cap space this offseason, and once it's gone, it's likely gone for several more years. The window to strike with Portland is right now. The number of teams who might eat Randle's contract will shrink and shrink as time goes on. He will get older and more expensive and that trade kicker will look uglier and uglier and if he keeps loafing it and playing like an asshole, his reputation will move past the "Needs A Change Of Scenery" type of narrative.
2) Portland needs to appease Damon Lillard immediately. Does Randle win them a championship? No. But the team can say tried to do something and were willing to spend to try to make something positive happen in the waning years of his career
3) The longer the Knicks wait, the more there is a risk of a Randle major injury that makes him truly impossible to trade
4) Right now is when his "salary matching" even with the trade kicker, will be more tenable for other teams. As good as it's going to get is right now. This is when Randle is the youngest and closest to this lone All Star appearance and this is when his cap charge will be the cheapest. ( Cheapest as in relatively to that stupid mind numbing contract that was given out to an empty gym hero finally exposed as a mental midget who won't stop bitching about everything )
Is it Randle's fault if there are some front office/head coach conflicts? No.
But is Randle doing his part, his responsibility, to make the best out of the situation presented and lead this team? No.
One problem doesn't wipe out accountability for the other. Some of you believe so, and it's actually inexplicable to me how the excuses can keep rolling for a player who just doesn't give a shit anymore.
The benefit of trading Randle is to dump his salary now before that contract looks uglier and uglier over time. You can't have a guy basically making 30 million a year who doesn't give a fuck at all. And who plays like a complete and total asshole. That's going to drag this team down for the next upcoming four years.
blkexec wrote:..... Randle is here now and ready to win in NYC. He even took a pay cut to show he’s willing to be a team player. We need to put him in a position to win......since Randle is also trying to get better at being a #1 player. Randle hasn’t learned to be #1 yet and maybe he never will. But he’s a damn good #2 and that’s not something you just throw away just because he hasn’t met #1 expectations. And I’m not sure I trust this FO to start from scratch. Randle and RJ are coach able. They are not locker room cancer type players. They want to win.....
In what way is Julius Randle showing he wants to win?
He didn't magically take a paycut. The Lakers didn't want to resign him, thus forcing Randle to restart his Bird Rights clock. The Pelicans didn't want to resign him, thus AGAIN, restarting his Bird Rights clock. He had a horrible first year in the Knicks, and if he pooched it again in his 2nd year, knowing the third year was a team option, he knew they would pay the smaller buyout and cut him loose, putting him in a situation where FOR A THIRD TIME, he'd have to restart his Bird Rights clock without ever having been offered a long term extension.
That wasn't a paycut, that was a guy who can't be trusted to be anything other than a one year at a time type contract player. Once he got "paid", then he stopped giving a shit again.
If you are going to get paid 30 million a year, there is none of this "Needs to learn to be a No#1" You take the duty and obligation once you sign that contract. No one is asking him to be the next Oscar Robertson here. Just play hard all the time. Don't loaf around like an asshole. Move off the ball with passion and purpose. Lock in on defense. Set some hard picks. Fight through screens. Dive for loose balls. If your shot isn't falling, then find some way, any way possible to contribute something else on the court. Act like a leader. Talk like a leader. Set an example. Be the hardest worker.
Two wrongs don't make a right. If the front office or the coaching needs to do better, that DOES NOT excuse Randle from his obligation and responsibility to lead this team. If he didn't want to lead this team, then don't sign a deal for 30 million a year making you the leader of the team. With great power comes great responsibility.
Of course the Knicks wanted and tried to trade him during this season. If you don't act like a winner and don't act like a leader when you've chosen to take those responsibilities ( I'm not talking about numbers here or counting stats, I'm talking about acting like a real professional with career integrity), of course the team is going to try to dump you.
Randle doesn't like the booing? If you do your job the right way, then you'll start to get called things in public you actually want to hear.
doomed wrote:Knixkik wrote:I still don’t see the benefit in trading Randle. It’s not his fault we have a flawed roster with no PG. Let’s fix that first.Thank you. And to trade him for trash no less?
Why??? Where’s the value in that?
We’re obsessed with cap space and cap room.
Not trading him for trash. Just a pure salary dump.
What are the benefits?
1) Let RJ Barrett get a chance to try to lead this team.
2) Let Obi Toppin take those freed up minutes to show the team what he can or can't do to help them in the future
3) Improve morale on the team by taking away a clearly toxic element.
4) Generate hopefully a large trade exception ( even if you take close to nothing back, odds are you'll get a valuable trade exception and maybe Brock Aller can spin that into something useful)
5) Free up some cap space and a roster spot for a player who actually wants to play hard and be a New York Knick.
Shaq said it right. Stop complaining and find a way to deal some damage and find a way to win
Barkley was right. You can't be the leader of this team and do bone headed things like getting a technical called when it could cost you a win for something senseless.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q74
There are three categories of allowable incentives: performance, academic/physical achievement, and extra promotional. The latter two categories are always included in the player's salary and team salary amounts. Performance incentives are classified as either "likely to be achieved" or "not likely to be achieved," with only the likely incentives included in the player's salary and team salary amounts. The determination of whether an incentive is likely or not likely is based on whether the criterion was achieved in the previous season. For example, if a player had seven assists per game the previous season, then an incentive based on seven assists per game would be classified as likely to be achieved, but one based on eight assists per game would be classified as not likely.…
All performance incentives are re-evaluated at the start of each season to determine whether they should be classified as likely or not likely to be achieved.
Got to get back solid role players.
martin wrote:One caveat to the bonuses: they are reevaluated every offseason and based off of previous season.http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q74
There are three categories of allowable incentives: performance, academic/physical achievement, and extra promotional. The latter two categories are always included in the player's salary and team salary amounts. Performance incentives are classified as either "likely to be achieved" or "not likely to be achieved," with only the likely incentives included in the player's salary and team salary amounts. The determination of whether an incentive is likely or not likely is based on whether the criterion was achieved in the previous season. For example, if a player had seven assists per game the previous season, then an incentive based on seven assists per game would be classified as likely to be achieved, but one based on eight assists per game would be classified as not likely.…
All performance incentives are re-evaluated at the start of each season to determine whether they should be classified as likely or not likely to be achieved.
Yep, beat me to it. There is little chance of JR making both those incentives.
Is there really no path for him to rehabilitate his attitude and perhaps refine his game some what or is “Trade” the easiest fix?
We always assume change is going to be for the better?
New coach?
Briggs finds a dude from Colorado State (Roddy) who looks like a serial killer and he describes him with all these attributes that is actually Randle.
Yes, maybe FO is not happy with Thibs. Does he get in line what they want or see? Or fire him to quell fans anger?
Randle? Same thing. Does firing the FO really change the issue?
EF is playing to his career numbers. AT his salary its not awful. remember when Boston took Haywood and lost him for two years to injury, third season was not great, but then let him walk? That sucks.
Removing Leon, Thibs does not undo all these thngs. I do think a PG would help alot. RJ career is starting to give us clarity to what he is.
Nalod wrote:
Is there really no path for him to rehabilitate his attitude and perhaps refine his game some what or is “Trade” the easiest fix?
We always assume change is going to be for the better?
New coach?
Briggs finds a dude from Colorado State (Roddy) who looks like a serial killer and he describes him with all these attributes that is actually Randle.Yes, maybe FO is not happy with Thibs. Does he get in line what they want or see? Or fire him to quell fans anger?
Randle? Same thing. Does firing the FO really change the issue?
EF is playing to his career numbers. AT his salary its not awful. remember when Boston took Haywood and lost him for two years to injury, third season was not great, but then let him walk? That sucks.Removing Leon, Thibs does not undo all these thngs. I do think a PG would help alot. RJ career is starting to give us clarity to what he is.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1484586943920939020
Click here to view the Tweet
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NYPost_Berman/status/1484372392252112900
Click here to view the Tweet
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1479293478005882883
Click here to view the Tweet
Bondy: “Cameras caught you giving thumbs down to the crowd. What was that about?”
Randle: “Shut the fuck up”
*****
Randle has had what will soon be three season with this team Two of them sucked pure ass. He has the talent to be a fringe All Star. He just doesn't give a shit. In order for him to give a shit, he needs to be in a contract year, have a limited roster around him so he can do whatever he wants on offense, operate in an "empty gym" scenario during a world wide pandemic and apparently operate with zero accountability whatsoever.
Do any of you want four more years of this stupid bullshit at 30 million a year while killing the Knicks cap situation and being a locker room nightmare? Do you want those young guys being drafted exposed to day after day of that zero leadership and toxicity?
The conditions under which Randle thrived in 2020-21 don't exist anymore.
This is going to be his 8th full season in the league. If he hasn't figured it out by now ( acting like a rational fucking adult and having some basic personal work ethic and integrity towards one's obligations and duty to their commitments), then when is that going to happen?
What did I say over a decade ago on this forum?
1) "Don't give out an engagement ring after just one good blowjob"
2) "Don't beg someone to stay and then beg them to do their fucking job"
Randle is mentally weak. The Knicks would rather face league penalty than risk Randle saying even more stupid shit to incite and drive away fans. If he has some kind of mental health issue, OK, then go into a facility for a month and get medication and get therapy and get some help and try to correct the problem. But unless that's going to happen, he has to own up to his behavior and his actions.
TiTi is right. Let's rinse and repeat back to 2003 because Randle is an asshole. He should be better than this. Just do not get why he is not able to play without a PG, play like a PG, average more than a double double and be eloquent with our illustrious press. I mean who can resist a honest conversation with Marc the blob Berman? Yep, the all the possible cap flexibility, ability to give Obi the stage to dunk and the future 2nd rounders is proof enough for me. Trade the one guy who got us to the playoffs in many years. It will make all of TiTi's research and we'll thought out responses worth while.
Randle has many things to work on. Including his attitude. He needs a PG that can control the offensive flow. He needs to be put in his most productive role. (Not ball handling, not facilitating, not at the 3pt stripe) He is a beast down low. He averages close to a double double every year. He demands double teams. He can be a very good secondary piece to a playoff team. Getting rid of him for reasons TT described is just BS panties in a wad shit. As is getting rid of Thibs. A team needs years of continuity to become elite. Gone are the days that teams are built and developed. As is giving a set of players time to become part of a cohesive group. Which is not three months. How about we get a top level PG, make some adjustments and see how our yoots can fill some roles so that we can properly evaluate all our pieces? Including Randle.
a) shows remorse and changes
b) doesn't keep repeating the same mistakes over and over on the court
c) is so talented you really have to keep him unless you get outstanding value
d) you can't trade him because no one will touch him in a trade unless you overpay
Unfortunately it may be D right now... let's hope the offseason allows for more options.