We have 8 guys 23 or under who have seen rotation minutes this year. We would need to bring back Mitch (we should and I hope we do) but this is a core that works hard, plays hard and has a LOT of positives and overall talent.
PG
IQ 22
McBride 21
SG/SF
RJ 21
Grimes 21
Reddish 22
PF/C
Obi 23
Mitch 23
Sims 23
Veteran keepers:
Randle: Some warts but if we can get something close to last year's version its worth rehabbing.
Rose: whatever he's got we'll take
Veteran take em or leave em:
Noel/Burks/Fournier: None are bad, but together are sure to keep our rotation stuck in mediocrity. Trade who you can for any future draft assets
I would definitely look to move Randle if there is a reasonable deal. His inconsistent defensive effort/intensity this season is worse then Fournier's due to the fact that Randle is supposed to lead this team. Also - the pace drops immediately whenever Randle is subbed back in after our youths seem to build us a lead... oh yeah and the arguing/immaturity is not helpful either.
I would keep Fournier unless an obvious improvement via trade is available. I wouldn't dump him like we all want to dump Kemba and possibly Noel.
Rose I would move for a decent price as we will continue to struggle if Rose is our 35 year old savior and a playoff team may wish to pay for him.
That’s fine we just need a competent starting pg. most likely scenario is a trade with Dallas for Dinwiddie. Then we draft another pg like Chandler at 8 or 9
I'm with you - lot of room to improve organically with player development.
Eventually you have to expect guys will be packaged and traded to consolidate talent, but I'd love to see as many stick as possible.
Mitch, RJ, IQ, Grimes - even with some question marks on the others, we've successfully come away with a rotation player in each of the last 4 drafts.
I'd add Taj to veteran keepers:
Great locker room guy to have around, gives 100% effort everytime he's on the floor, and doesn't bitch about his role.Best case scenario is he is not in the rotation. But between injuries and foul trouble, you're going to need him.
Most disappointed in the season we got from Noel - or lack thereof. I don't know how you don't reward him after last year, but Sims is making him expendable. Meanwhile, Mitch '22 has separated himself from Noel '21. Somethings got to give.
MaTT4281 wrote:I'm with you - lot of room to improve organically with player development.Eventually you have to expect guys will be packaged and traded to consolidate talent, but I'd love to see as many stick as possible.
Mitch, RJ, IQ, Grimes - even with some question marks on the others, we've successfully come away with a rotation player in each of the last 4 drafts.
I'd add Taj to veteran keepers:
Great locker room guy to have around, gives 100% effort everytime he's on the floor, and doesn't bitch about his role.Best case scenario is he is not in the rotation. But between injuries and foul trouble, you're going to need him.
Most disappointed in the season we got from Noel - or lack thereof. I don't know how you don't reward him after last year, but Sims is making him expendable. Meanwhile, Mitch '22 has separated himself from Noel '21. Somethings got to give.
I think we’re better off giving Taj an assistant coach job and making Sims the full time back up hopefully to Mitch but it will probably be Noel next year
I’d hate to see a class act like Taj get old and embarrass himself next season because Thibs wants to play him 30+ minutes a night
Veteran take em or leave em:
Noel/Burks/Fournier: None are bad, but together are sure to keep our rotation stuck in mediocrity. Trade who you can for any future draft assets
If Noel is healthy, I'd keep him. Injuries are his real problem. Otherwise, you know Mitch is going to go down at some point and he steps in without missing a beat.
Burks ok as a bench player. I don't see a problem. He's not going to singlehandedly keep the Knicks in mediocrity (that's Randle).
EF: Need more grit and defense out of a starter. Thus he is overpaid, and should be a bench player. Or, I'd just trade him.
Panos wrote:Veteran take em or leave em:
Noel/Burks/Fournier: None are bad, but together are sure to keep our rotation stuck in mediocrity. Trade who you can for any future draft assets
If Noel is healthy, I'd keep him. Injuries are his real problem. Otherwise, you know Mitch is going to go down at some point and he steps in without missing a beat.
Burks ok as a bench player. I don't see a problem. He's not going to singlehandedly keep the Knicks in mediocrity (that's Randle).
EF: Need more grit and defense out of a starter. Thus he is overpaid, and should be a bench player. Or, I'd just trade him.
Disagree with the bold.. its is Burks and hear me out. Burks is good. Good enough to earn the coach's trust and entrench himself in the rotation over potential long term upside player.
Everyone seems to be on Thibs for playing Burks over McBride, but the coach went with the veteran who earned his trust.
Thing with Randle is we ALL KNOW he's not a #1 option, either scoring or running the offense. We are not winning a title with him there and the value in the roster is in the youth.
I like Burks alot. He's not getting us closer to a championship on this roster. Giving his minutes to someone that has higher upside might. That's Grimes/Reddish or if he's considered a PG McBride as well.
Hopefully we get to Randle being the 2nd or 3rd option and fans will start liking him again. He's just another guy. Its not about him. My hope is he bounces back like Siakem did after he got paid
Panos wrote:Veteran take em or leave em:
Noel/Burks/Fournier: None are bad, but together are sure to keep our rotation stuck in mediocrity. Trade who you can for any future draft assets
If Noel is healthy, I'd keep him. Injuries are his real problem. Otherwise, you know Mitch is going to go down at some point and he steps in without missing a beat.
Burks ok as a bench player. I don't see a problem. He's not going to singlehandedly keep the Knicks in mediocrity (that's Randle).
EF: Need more grit and defense out of a starter. Thus he is overpaid, and should be a bench player. Or, I'd just trade him.
I am a little bit concerned that Noel may be done. If that’s the case resigning Mitch is the biggest no brainer ever
Fish i love the optimism but we have some real problems and no readily apparent solution
And it all starts with Randle who is an enigma and unreliable. He's finding more ways to lose games in stupid ways than i can remember
We want last year's Randle but who the hell knows if that will ever return. AND if we get rid of Randle things could be worse
We also have a big problem at pg and if we're honest about it we're not really developing a solution for that and a rookie won't be the answer absent a miractle
I love IQ but he's a small 2, or at best a combo, not bona fide lead guard. I like McBride but i'm not sure he's the answer either
fishmike wrote:We have 8 guys 23 or under who have seen rotation minutes this year. We would need to bring back Mitch (we should and I hope we do) but this is a core that works hard, plays hard and has a LOT of positives and overall talent.PG
IQ 22
McBride 21
SG/SF
RJ 21
Grimes 21
Reddish 22
PF/C
Obi 23
Mitch 23
Sims 23
Veteran keepers:
Randle: Some warts but if we can get something close to last year's version its worth rehabbing.
Rose: whatever he's got we'll take
Veteran take em or leave em:
Noel/Burks/Fournier: None are bad, but together are sure to keep our rotation stuck in mediocrity. Trade who you can for any future draft assets
Need to add a real Pg plus a healthy rose and we can get some good vibes back.
jskinny35 wrote:I would definitely look to move Randle if there is a reasonable deal. His inconsistent defensive effort/intensity this season is worse then Fournier's due to the fact that Randle is supposed to lead this team. Also - the pace drops immediately whenever Randle is subbed back in after our youths seem to build us a lead... oh yeah and the arguing/immaturity is not helpful either.I would keep Fournier unless an obvious improvement via trade is available. I wouldn't dump him like we all want to dump Kemba and possibly Noel.
Rose I would move for a decent price as we will continue to struggle if Rose is our 35 year old savior and a playoff team may wish to pay for him.
I think Fournier has more leadership presence than Randle. After a loss, he called himself out and had a big night the next game. He is going to be our single season 3pt leader. He is lethal if open. He's not amazing, he's not a difference maker per se - but he is not a distraction like Randle.
I'm worried that Randle is legit a bad character influence. Always arguing, pushing around the lowly video assistant who was probably showing him mistakes. FO needs to ask him if he wants to be here and if he shows some of the bad traits we have seen, move him ASAP and include the Dallas picks and extra 2nd rounders if needed.
Berman mentioned Tyus Jones of the Griz as a possible PG target. Any thoughts from more informed posters?
Panos wrote:Philc1 wrote:Panos wrote:Veteran take em or leave em:
Noel/Burks/Fournier: None are bad, but together are sure to keep our rotation stuck in mediocrity. Trade who you can for any future draft assets
If Noel is healthy, I'd keep him. Injuries are his real problem. Otherwise, you know Mitch is going to go down at some point and he steps in without missing a beat.
Burks ok as a bench player. I don't see a problem. He's not going to singlehandedly keep the Knicks in mediocrity (that's Randle).
EF: Need more grit and defense out of a starter. Thus he is overpaid, and should be a bench player. Or, I'd just trade him.
I am a little bit concerned that Noel may be done. If that’s the case resigning Mitch is the biggest no brainer ever
What makes you say that?
Fact that he’s played 25 games this season and hasn’t been active since 2/7
Chandler wrote:Fish i love the optimism but we have some real problems and no readily apparent solutionAnd it all starts with Randle who is an enigma and unreliable. He's finding more ways to lose games in stupid ways than i can remember
We want last year's Randle but who the hell knows if that will ever return. AND if we get rid of Randle things could be worse
We also have a big problem at pg and if we're honest about it we're not really developing a solution for that and a rookie won't be the answer absent a miractle
I love IQ but he's a small 2, or at best a combo, not bona fide lead guard. I like McBride but i'm not sure he's the answer either
This team is not that bad. If we had a semi decent starting pg we’d either be the 10th seed or a game out
Watching this team play, it’s a different team with a PG. give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Rose at PG. just competent game management. You will have smoother offense and no blown leads.
Knixkik wrote:Watching this team play, it’s a different team with a PG. give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Rose at PG. just competent game management. You will have smoother offense and no blown leads.
man you really love Brunson... that is just not a guy you spend on to lead your team. IQ and McBride both have more upside, they just need time. Brunson is great for the 33rd pick. Not for giving up assets to lock in for 4 years to run your team. You are really overvaluing him
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:Watching this team play, it’s a different team with a PG. give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Rose at PG. just competent game management. You will have smoother offense and no blown leads.
man you really love Brunson... that is just not a guy you spend on to lead your team. IQ and McBride both have more upside, they just need time. Brunson is great for the 33rd pick. Not for giving up assets to lock in for 4 years to run your team. You are really overvaluing him
It's going to be a moot point after the Knicks shoot up to 2nd in draft and select Ivey
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:Watching this team play, it’s a different team with a PG. give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Rose at PG. just competent game management. You will have smoother offense and no blown leads.
man you really love Brunson... that is just not a guy you spend on to lead your team. IQ and McBride both have more upside, they just need time. Brunson is great for the 33rd pick. Not for giving up assets to lock in for 4 years to run your team. You are really overvaluing him
Please everyone. Stop with the Brunson. Dude is straight trash. He's not even running PG on his own team, Luka is. Brunson is the sort of garbage that we'd lock in here and then everyone complains. I knew Kemba would be trash. We need to get a top PG in the draft, period, and roll out like Ludacris.
And regarding this main topic, I agree, there is no FA savior this year, and that is not OK, but we have no cap space anyway, so we have no choice but to run it back. Bench the trash out of position Burks at PG we have now and run McBride for the last 10 games - see what he got.
We have a trash core - no superstars, and you need 3 to win in the NBA.
Randle is not the answer.
RJ is a second or 3rd option. We need to draft stars.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:Watching this team play, it’s a different team with a PG. give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Rose at PG. just competent game management. You will have smoother offense and no blown leads.
man you really love Brunson... that is just not a guy you spend on to lead your team. IQ and McBride both have more upside, they just need time. Brunson is great for the 33rd pick. Not for giving up assets to lock in for 4 years to run your team. You are really overvaluing him
It's going to be a moot point after the Knicks shoot up to 2nd in draft and select Ivey
Knicks are cursed, and will not win anything. We never have in the lotto
Caseloads wrote:fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:Watching this team play, it’s a different team with a PG. give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Rose at PG. just competent game management. You will have smoother offense and no blown leads.
man you really love Brunson... that is just not a guy you spend on to lead your team. IQ and McBride both have more upside, they just need time. Brunson is great for the 33rd pick. Not for giving up assets to lock in for 4 years to run your team. You are really overvaluing him
Please everyone. Stop with the Brunson. Dude is straight trash. He's not even running PG on his own team, Luka is. Brunson is the sort of garbage that we'd lock in here and then everyone complains. I knew Kemba would be trash. We need to get a top PG in the draft, period, and roll out like Ludacris.And regarding this main topic, I agree, there is no FA savior this year, and that is not OK, but we have no cap space anyway, so we have no choice but to run it back. Bench the trash out of position Burks at PG we have now and run McBride for the last 10 games - see what he got.
We have a trash core - no superstars, and you need 3 to win in the NBA.
Randle is not the answer.
RJ is a second or 3rd option. We need to draft stars.
The bold... that's a little rough but not untrue at this time. Its also why I SMH when I hear Thibs getting trashed every game as the source of our problem.
RJ is 21 and very close to being a "star" caliber play.
"Randle is not the answer" doesnt address last year's team or the fact that he's a very productive player. He's surely not the #1 but as a #2 or #3 (see playing with Rose last year) he's pretty good
Randle you can take him or leave him but not getting value back is a huge backward step
