Knicks · Run it back next year with Brunson-Fournier-Barrett-Randle-Mitch (page 1)

And for those wondering how we get Brunson without giving up anything significant, here’s how we do it: offer Dallas’ first round pick next year to a team with cap space willing to take Burks and Noel into their cap space. That team can easily flip Burks and will gladly eat noels final guaranteed year for that pick. It will clear 20 mil in space and still have the ability to maintain Robinson's cap hold before resigning him. Or Knicks can simply give Dallas the same opportunity to accept that deal in a sign and trade if they want to gain some value back and not lose him for nothing. They still have Doncic running the show and Dinwiddie on a long term contract. Brunson can be the best PG we have had since Marbury and grow with the youth. There will still be some consolation needed but that starting lineup with Rose, IQ, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride plus a rookie lottery pick and Jokubaitis in the pipeline gives plenty of depth and options going forward.

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

Then let Brunson do what he does and make RJ and Randle look better!

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

Numbers speak for themselves. He’s a good player. FVV 2.0. This is the first player the front office needs to use their pull to get into a Knicks uniform. If they can’t even do that it will be sad. Brunson is essentially family to them. This is the guy who doesn’t have the sexy name of a DeAaron Fox or someone like that, but ends up being just as impactful or more due to his highly efficient offense and scrappy defense. He’s the second best player in Dallas by far. They have Luka yes, but they literally have no one else and Brunson is their clear guy outside of Luka and they are a very good team. He can be the primary playmaker but also play off the ball. Give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Drose at PG and watch things turn around.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

Numbers speak for themselves. He’s a good player. FVV 2.0. This is the first player the front office needs to use their pull to get into a Knicks uniform. If they can’t even do that it will be sad. Brunson is essentially family to them. This is the guy who doesn’t have the sexy name of a DeAaron Fox or someone like that, but ends up being just as impactful or more due to his highly efficient offense and scrappy defense. He’s the second best player in Dallas by far. They have Luka yes, but they literally have no one else and Brunson is their clear guy outside of Luka and they are a very good team. He can be the primary playmaker but also play off the ball. Give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Drose at PG and watch things turn around.

Im leaning this way and its why Im rooting for Dinwiddie to kick ass for them. it makes it easier to let go of Brunson. WE gonna have to overpay him to get him. I thought FVV at 20mil was a stretch but he is playing up to it. Maybe we get similar value. Its a risk.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

What's nice about those numbers too, though small sample size, is his assist to turnovers is only around 3.6. Which puts him right there in range as a Dinwiddie/Patrick Beverly-type PG.

And even better, his 3 pt attempts are only around 3 a game without Luka, yet he's shooting that high of % overall.

I'd rather go all priority one on getting a working Brunson than a broken Zion jumping around on a bouncy castle floor.

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

What's nice about those numbers too, though small sample size, is his assist to turnovers is only around 3.6. Which puts him right there in range as a Dinwiddie/Patrick Beverly-type PG.

And even better, his 3 pt attempts are only around 3 a game without Luka, yet he's shooting that high of % overall.

I'd rather go all priority one on getting a working Brunson than a broken Zion jumping around on a bouncy castle floor.

The bouncy floor tells me he is not healthy? They put that in just for him? The between the leg dunk looked pretty good to me! Its not like he was dunking his nerf ball on the basket on his closet door in his parents house, that was still a 10 foot rim.

Do I want a healthy HOF bound Zion here? Sure. The price? Well if he damaged not so high. Is he faking it? Is he pulling a Vince/Harden like exit?

Has ZIon fucked over Nola? Really, what has Nola done in his era that makes him want to leave other than Griff wanting to play piano for him? They lied to the press? Thats not fucking over Zion. Let Ball leave? It was a trade, and Im not sure Ball was the end all answer either. Is the Crowd there not good to him?
what has he done to exactly endear himself to the fans and Franchise? 85 games in almost three seasons?

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

What's nice about those numbers too, though small sample size, is his assist to turnovers is only around 3.6. Which puts him right there in range as a Dinwiddie/Patrick Beverly-type PG.

And even better, his 3 pt attempts are only around 3 a game without Luka, yet he's shooting that high of % overall.

I'd rather go all priority one on getting a working Brunson than a broken Zion jumping around on a bouncy castle floor.

The bouncy floor tells me he is not healthy? They put that in just for him? The between the leg dunk looked pretty good to me! Its not like he was dunking his nerf ball on the basket on his closet door in his parents house, that was still a 10 foot rim.

Do I want a healthy HOF bound Zion here? Sure. The price? Well if he damaged not so high. Is he faking it? Is he pulling a Vince/Harden like exit?

Has ZIon fucked over Nola? Really, what has Nola done in his era that makes him want to leave other than Griff wanting to play piano for him? They lied to the press? Thats not fucking over Zion. Let Ball leave? It was a trade, and Im not sure Ball was the end all answer either. Is the Crowd there not good to him?
what has he done to exactly endear himself to the fans and Franchise? 85 games in almost three seasons?

Where does a healthy Zion exist after 3 seasons beyond our Knick Orange and BlueDevil imaginations? Could care about Pelican machinations about as much as people in Nola care about anything not LSU.

And the bouncy floor and the fact that he was nowhere near Duke shoulder at the backboard elevation tells me he's not Zion healthy. Internet's loaded with shmoes doing deranged dunks in empty gyms. On actual wood floors that don't compress.

Focus on Brunson. I'd let Zion show some sort of game-level health before scheming up mirror-rape trades and sending away 1st rounders with reckless abandon

No.
He's not trash, but he's a low impact player. All this does is kick the can down the road. You might get short term boost in PG but you spend to get him here. NO NO NO NO.

Both McBride and Quickly have higher upside than this guy. Why do we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity?

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

Numbers speak for themselves. He’s a good player. FVV 2.0.

Welcome back to the days where every opposing guard has a career night in the garden. No thanks

We just got an upclose look at a bad defensive guard in Kemba next to Fournier. Like no

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

What's nice about those numbers too, though small sample size, is his assist to turnovers is only around 3.6. Which puts him right there in range as a Dinwiddie/Patrick Beverly-type PG.

And even better, his 3 pt attempts are only around 3 a game without Luka, yet he's shooting that high of % overall.

I'd rather go all priority one on getting a working Brunson than a broken Zion jumping around on a bouncy castle floor.

The bouncy floor tells me he is not healthy? They put that in just for him? The between the leg dunk looked pretty good to me! Its not like he was dunking his nerf ball on the basket on his closet door in his parents house, that was still a 10 foot rim.

Do I want a healthy HOF bound Zion here? Sure. The price? Well if he damaged not so high. Is he faking it? Is he pulling a Vince/Harden like exit?

Has ZIon fucked over Nola? Really, what has Nola done in his era that makes him want to leave other than Griff wanting to play piano for him? They lied to the press? Thats not fucking over Zion. Let Ball leave? It was a trade, and Im not sure Ball was the end all answer either. Is the Crowd there not good to him?
what has he done to exactly endear himself to the fans and Franchise? 85 games in almost three seasons?

Where does a healthy Zion exist after 3 seasons beyond our Knick Orange and BlueDevil imaginations? Could care about Pelican machinations about as much as people in Nola care about anything not LSU.

And the bouncy floor and the fact that he was nowhere near Duke shoulder at the backboard elevation tells me he's not Zion healthy. Internet's loaded with shmoes doing deranged dunks in empty gyms. On actual wood floors that don't compress.

Focus on Brunson. I'd let Zion show some sort of game-level health before scheming up mirror-rape trades and sending away 1st rounders with reckless abandon

I think the idea is to try to pay less and get him now (while still recovering) vs paying a lot more when he returns to full health. It's a risk for sure - but I think it's worth taking since we have multiple picks and are likely to move on from Randle sooner anyway.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

Thanks for posting and that's good to hear he's more than capable running the team and not just being a 2ndary option.

Knixkik wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

TPercy wrote:not sure i want to give up dallas's pick and burks just to get brunson on a long term deal.

I like Brunson and def think he's solid. What I would like to see if Luka being out for awhile to see how Brunson does in the primary ball-handling role as that would be more similar to the role he would have here. I worry him playing next to Luka makes him look better then he actually is (since Luka's a terrific player).

20 points and 7.5 assists without Luka this season. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b....

Numbers speak for themselves. He’s a good player. FVV 2.0. This is the first player the front office needs to use their pull to get into a Knicks uniform. If they can’t even do that it will be sad. Brunson is essentially family to them. This is the guy who doesn’t have the sexy name of a DeAaron Fox or someone like that, but ends up being just as impactful or more due to his highly efficient offense and scrappy defense. He’s the second best player in Dallas by far. They have Luka yes, but they literally have no one else and Brunson is their clear guy outside of Luka and they are a very good team. He can be the primary playmaker but also play off the ball. Give me 48 mpg of Brunson and Drose at PG and watch things turn around.

Cool - I'm sold!

fishmike wrote:yeah a Brunson thread.

No.
He's not trash, but he's a low impact player. All this does is kick the can down the road. You might get short term boost in PG but you spend to get him here. NO NO NO NO.

Both McBride and Quickly have higher upside than this guy. Why do we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity?

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:yeah a Brunson thread.

No.
He's not trash, but he's a low impact player. All this does is kick the can down the road. You might get short term boost in PG but you spend to get him here. NO NO NO NO.

Both McBride and Quickly have higher upside than this guy. Why do we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity?

Dunno about McBride

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:yeah a Brunson thread.

No.
He's not trash, but he's a low impact player. All this does is kick the can down the road. You might get short term boost in PG but you spend to get him here. NO NO NO NO.

Both McBride and Quickly have higher upside than this guy. Why do we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity?

Dunno about McBride

he's bigger stronger longer and more explosive. They were similar in college except of course McBride was regarded as on of college basketball's best defenders. Something you will never get with Brunson. He'll try hard. Jose Calderon tried hard also.

I wouldn't say they were that similar in college. Brunson is a national player of the year, all-american and two national championship winner. Yes, McBride is bigger. But Jalen has been playing point guard all of his life, while McBride is still learning the position. Brunson is a natural playmaker. Also, Brunson is much better in the paint despite being smaller and less explosive. Even when they were at similar levels in college.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:yeah a Brunson thread.

No.
He's not trash, but he's a low impact player. All this does is kick the can down the road. You might get short term boost in PG but you spend to get him here. NO NO NO NO.

Both McBride and Quickly have higher upside than this guy. Why do we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity?

Dunno about McBride

he's bigger stronger longer and more explosive. They were similar in college except of course McBride was regarded as on of college basketball's best defenders. Something you will never get with Brunson. He'll try hard. Jose Calderon tried hard also.

I wouldn't say they were that similar in college. Brunson is a national player of the year, all-american and two national championship winner. Yes, McBride is bigger. But Jalen has been playing point guard all of his life, while McBride is still learning the position. Brunson is a natural playmaker. Also, Brunson is much better in the paint despite being smaller and less explosive. Even when they were at similar levels in college.

Best case scenario is we land Brunson and hold onto McBride. DRose is getting up there so it never hurts to have 2 quality PG's that offer varying abilities.

It would appear to me that you don't build a championship team by trading 1st Rounders and $20M+ salaries to a back-up PG. You save the assets and cap space to make a future move on an "A" player.....otherwise you end up discontent about owing a guy $100M who will not move the needle much in terms of playoff standing.

Jalen Brunson is a 25 Year Old - 2nd Round Pick (#33) in 2018 who has 4 years under his belt - mostly as a back-up on a decent team with an all world PG and will be 26 years old next season. They smallish PG plays defense similar to Kemba but some Knicks fans who have complained about the team's bringing in offensive focused players and lack of defensive effort for a Defensive minded HC are salivating over giving up the house for the honor of paying this guy $100M over the next 4 years to not play defense.

Deuce McBride is a 21 Year Old - 2nd Round Pick in 2021 (#36) who is a defense first rookie and mostly TBD on offense to most fans on a shitty Knicks team for a coach who's tough in terms of new guys earning their minutes. Many of the same Knicks fans who are salivating about Brunson would rather throw McBride in the trash rather than waiting on his development over the next 4 years that they did not have to wait in Brunson.