Knicks · PLAY KNICKS GM - 2022 OFFSEASON - what to do? (page 2)

No need to max RJ and Mitch, 5 years $100 mil gets the job done for both

Send Burks, Noel and a future 2nd to Dallas for Dinwiddie. Draft Kennedy Chandler at 10. If we fix the PG position we are a playoff team next year

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

bud.. its very simple but also a non reality based pipe dream

package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)

throw a team out there... any team. This is NOT feasible or reality based in any way shape or form. Go look up teams with cap space next year and pick one. The only might be Detroit who have shown interest in Mitch as an UFA they can sigh outright

Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract

Mitch already turned that down. He's also worth more.

SG Fournier
PG Brunson

might be the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA

We got guys 10 minutes away from being better than Brunson. Bring in Isaiah Thomas if that's your fancy. He'll be much cheaper.

I agree with drafting the BPA! I also think a Burks/Noel package has value. Package those 2 and pick 12 to Portland for Bledsoe and picks 7+9.

It’s all very realistic. Brunson is the most realistic good player we have had the opportunity for in awhile. And when did Mitch turn down 50 mil? All reports are that Knicks haven’t made an offer. Do you have something I missed. Also the Fournier Brunson backcourt is fine defensively. Brunson is a good defensive player. Someone here called him a bad defensive player and that rep somehow snowballed in this forum. He’s always had a good defensive rep.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Here’s the thing though. We aren’t doing what you think we are. I’m talking about doing this with Brunson already in verbal agreement. Look at it as Burks, Noel and the Dallas first for Brunson. Or you can use the threat to deal that package to Dallas directly for Brunson. Whatever works. Dumping contracts with picks is bad business i agree. But that’s not this.
My goal is that starting lineup and deep bench without dipping into our own picks. Using only the surplus picks. Our own picks should be used drafting players or in a trade for a major star. And never move off players by attaching picks just to free up cap space in general. When people were saying do that with Fournier I was highly against it. I want Brunson. If he wants to come and solve our PG problem , than attaching a pick to those players is a small price to pay.

Mitch and Dinwiddie > Brunson and Noel/Sims

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Here’s the thing though. We aren’t doing what you think we are. I’m talking about doing this with Brunson already in verbal agreement. Look at it as Burks, Noel and the Dallas first for Brunson. Or you can use the threat to deal that package to Dallas directly for Brunson. Whatever works. Dumping contracts with picks is bad business i agree. But that’s not this.
My goal is that starting lineup and deep bench without dipping into our own picks. Using only the surplus picks. Our own picks should be used drafting players or in a trade for a major star. And never move off players by attaching picks just to free up cap space in general. When people were saying do that with Fournier I was highly against it. I want Brunson. If he wants to come and solve our PG problem , than attaching a pick to those players is a small price to pay.

Brunson ain't worth BOTH his contract AND a draft pick. It's just bad resource management IMHO.

Would you give up IQ, Burks, Noel for Brunson? I wouldn't.

And besides, Dallas ain't taking back Burks (amongst the other 5 SGs they have) and an injured Noel. It's bad on both sides.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Here’s the thing though. We aren’t doing what you think we are. I’m talking about doing this with Brunson already in verbal agreement. Look at it as Burks, Noel and the Dallas first for Brunson. Or you can use the threat to deal that package to Dallas directly for Brunson. Whatever works. Dumping contracts with picks is bad business i agree. But that’s not this.
My goal is that starting lineup and deep bench without dipping into our own picks. Using only the surplus picks. Our own picks should be used drafting players or in a trade for a major star. And never move off players by attaching picks just to free up cap space in general. When people were saying do that with Fournier I was highly against it. I want Brunson. If he wants to come and solve our PG problem , than attaching a pick to those players is a small price to pay.

Brunson ain't worth BOTH his contract AND a draft pick. It's just bad resource management IMHO.

Would you give up IQ, Burks, Noel for Brunson? I wouldn't.

And besides, Dallas ain't taking back Burks (amongst the other 5 SGs they have) and an injured Noel. It's bad on both sides.

It’s a wing league and Burks is a good wing. Certainly better than THJ who Mark Cuban traded for. Besides, Luka is really a pg and supposedly they now want Finney Smith running point too

I think Cuban locks up Brunson which forces him to essentially give away Dinwiddie

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Agreed, terrible GM'ing. Picks have very high value. do not trade them

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

bud.. its very simple but also a non reality based pipe dream

package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)

throw a team out there... any team. This is NOT feasible or reality based in any way shape or form. Go look up teams with cap space next year and pick one. The only might be Detroit who have shown interest in Mitch as an UFA they can sigh outright

Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract

Mitch already turned that down. He's also worth more.

SG Fournier
PG Brunson

might be the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA

We got guys 10 minutes away from being better than Brunson. Bring in Isaiah Thomas if that's your fancy. He'll be much cheaper.

I agree with drafting the BPA! I also think a Burks/Noel package has value. Package those 2 and pick 12 to Portland for Bledsoe and picks 7+9.

bolded for emphasis

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Agreed, terrible GM'ing. Picks have very high value. do not trade them

Trading a late first round pick (with protections) for Brunson is an absolute steal however you look at it. You guys are missing the details here. I will never suggest trading picks just to offload contracts.

Knixkik wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Agreed, terrible GM'ing. Picks have very high value. do not trade them

Trading a late first round pick (with protections) for Brunson is an absolute steal however you look at it. You guys are missing the details here. I will never suggest trading picks just to offload contracts.

Please everyone, STOP this Brunson nonsense. To win in the NBA, you need a (super)star at PG. Otherwise, you are not going anywhere. You need at LEAST a Jrue Holiday level guy. Brunson is not that guy. Better off drafting or developing one. McBride could be a Brunson level guy.

Caseloads wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Agreed, terrible GM'ing. Picks have very high value. do not trade them

Trading a late first round pick (with protections) for Brunson is an absolute steal however you look at it. You guys are missing the details here. I will never suggest trading picks just to offload contracts.

Please everyone, STOP this Brunson nonsense. To win in the NBA, you need a (super)star at PG. Otherwise, you are not going anywhere. You need at LEAST a Jrue Holiday level guy. Brunson is not that guy. Better off drafting or developing one. McBride could be a Brunson level guy.

That isn’t accurate. How many championship teams even had a star PG? You win with star wings and bigs. Your PG is more of a glue guy/ connector on most contenders. It’s about getting better. McBride isn’t Brunson and you don’t wait 3 years to wait on the small chance he can get there. You get better now as long as you don’t sacrifice the future. Maybe Brunson helps the Knicks return to the playoffs, then Donavan Mitchell or someone of that level requests a trade here because he feels he can raise this team from playoffs to contender. The focus should be to improve where the opportunity is, not just keep throwing darts. I pushed to draft Haliburton because he was an obvious answer. I pushed offering VanVleet because he could be a fit. And Brunson is the next obvious guy. I’m not focused on waiting for a star PG. when are we just going to get a quality young starter ? Brunson is legit one of the most efficient PGs in the league right now and flat out dominated in games Doncic didn’t play. He’s getting the VanVleet treatment around here. People questioned him too and he’s an allstar. Not saying Brunson will he but get the good player when he’s in front of you.

Knixkik wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Agreed, terrible GM'ing. Picks have very high value. do not trade them

Trading a late first round pick (with protections) for Brunson is an absolute steal however you look at it. You guys are missing the details here. I will never suggest trading picks just to offload contracts.

Please everyone, STOP this Brunson nonsense. To win in the NBA, you need a (super)star at PG. Otherwise, you are not going anywhere. You need at LEAST a Jrue Holiday level guy. Brunson is not that guy. Better off drafting or developing one. McBride could be a Brunson level guy.

That isn’t accurate. How many championship teams even had a star PG? You win with star wings and bigs. Your PG is more of a glue guy/ connector on most contenders. It’s about getting better. McBride isn’t Brunson and you don’t wait 3 years to wait on the small chance he can get there. You get better now as long as you don’t sacrifice the future. Maybe Brunson helps the Knicks return to the playoffs, then Donavan Mitchell or someone of that level requests a trade here because he feels he can raise this team from playoffs to contender. The focus should be to improve where the opportunity is, not just keep throwing darts. I pushed to draft Haliburton because he was an obvious answer. I pushed offering VanVleet because he could be a fit. And Brunson is the next obvious guy. I’m not focused on waiting for a star PG. when are we just going to get a quality young starter ? Brunson is legit one of the most efficient PGs in the league right now and flat out dominated in games Doncic didn’t play. He’s getting the VanVleet treatment around here. People questioned him too and he’s an allstar. Not saying Brunson will he but get the good player when he’s in front of you.

I just don't see it in this system. Everyone here thought Kemba would be good, I knew he was done. Why not get Reggie Jackson? Bledsoe? Obi is doing ok, making Randle redundant, better to have Obi than nada. Halliburton would be nice, but who knows how he would have developed here?

Caseloads wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:My plan is very simple.

-Draft BPA
- package Burks and Noel together to a team with cap space and attach the Dallas pick next year (lottery protected)
- Sign Jalen Brunson for his going rate
- Hold mitch using his caphold until signing Brunson with the promise of a 4 year 50 mil contract
- Extend RJ. Keep Randle.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Fournier
PG Brunson
Bench: Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Sims, Gibson, McBride, Drafted players

You just can't. Smart teams NEVER do this. You do not trade viable players WITH a draft pick. It's the death of teams.

Agreed, terrible GM'ing. Picks have very high value. do not trade them

Trading a late first round pick (with protections) for Brunson is an absolute steal however you look at it. You guys are missing the details here. I will never suggest trading picks just to offload contracts.

Please everyone, STOP this Brunson nonsense. To win in the NBA, you need a (super)star at PG. Otherwise, you are not going anywhere. You need at LEAST a Jrue Holiday level guy. Brunson is not that guy. Better off drafting or developing one. McBride could be a Brunson level guy.

And if the Knicks thought that about McBride, you would think someone would tell Thibs- hey, last 10 games, give the kid 20+minutes a game.

Number 1 thing to address is chemistry. Get rid of randle

Number 2 is pg that can put pressure on the rim and defend the ball. I am not feeling Brunson

Chandler wrote:Number 1 thing to address is chemistry. Get rid of randle

Number 2 is pg that can put pressure on the rim and defend the ball. I am not feeling Brunson

Elfrid Payton?

Getting rid of Randle is assuming Obi takes his place?
What are we getting in return?

That said I max RJ because I believe he is worthy going forward. Thats Johnny Bryant’s ccall as to how much upside he has. Im assumng there is another gear to go.

Im not in favor of “maxing Mitch” but “Paying Mitch”. Im prepared to let him walk as well if we get squeezed. If he gets moe than was offered thats his choice. He choose to go the season and take the risks, he gets the reward.
Im not gonna be happy, but I understand shit happens.

Bring back RJ, S&T Mitch for a PG, draft a Center to replace him, trade Randle.

SergioNYK wrote:Bring back RJ, S&T Mitch for a PG, draft a Center to replace him, trade Randle.

Thats three open concepts. Who is the PG? Center to draft and what is returned for Randle?
You made changes but did we get better and what does our cap look like?

Brunson averaged 20 ppg, 8 asts and 4 rebs per game as well as 49% from the field and +71 in 17 games this season without Luka. Get him to verbally agree on a contract in the 4 year 80 mil range and move Burks and Noel to a team that can absorb their contracts with the Dallas pick attached, or give the same package to Dallas so they don’t lose him for nothing. It’s really that simple. Brunson is 25 years old. We missed on VanVleet 2 years ago. Brunson is a more efficient offensive version of him with less defense. Can’t make the same mistake again. Here’s the answer to the long-standing PG issue without losing significant assets. it would do wonders for Barrett’s development too. He’s a PG who can improve the flow of the offense without completely taking the ball out of his hands.

Knixkik wrote:Brunson averaged 20 ppg, 8 asts and 4 rebs per game as well as 49% from the field and +71 in 17 games this season without Luka. Get him to verbally agree on a contract in the 4 year 80 mil range and move Burks and Noel to a team that can absorb their contracts with the Dallas pick attached, or give the same package to Dallas so they don’t lose him for nothing. It’s really that simple. Brunson is 25 years old. We missed on VanVleet 2 years ago. Brunson is a more efficient offensive version of him with less defense. Can’t make the same mistake again. Here’s the answer to the long-standing PG issue without losing significant assets. it would do wonders for Barrett’s development too. He’s a PG who can improve the flow of the offense without completely taking the ball out of his hands.

Didn't you already post this prior in the thread?

Essentially you are proposing to trade Burks, Noel and a 1st for Brunson based on 17 games leading the point for Dallas without Luka. You will also willing to pay Brunson $20M per season. I'm not a Brunson hater - but I would question if he would be a good fit for this team under Thibs. You appear to be only looking at the offensive side of the ball in terms of what Brunson might bring, however we have a defensive minded coach who for the most part trusts players get after it on D (perhaps with the exception of Randle). If the Knicks do bring in Brunson - it tells me that the FO and HC are still not working in sync.

foosballnick wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Brunson averaged 20 ppg, 8 asts and 4 rebs per game as well as 49% from the field and +71 in 17 games this season without Luka. Get him to verbally agree on a contract in the 4 year 80 mil range and move Burks and Noel to a team that can absorb their contracts with the Dallas pick attached, or give the same package to Dallas so they don’t lose him for nothing. It’s really that simple. Brunson is 25 years old. We missed on VanVleet 2 years ago. Brunson is a more efficient offensive version of him with less defense. Can’t make the same mistake again. Here’s the answer to the long-standing PG issue without losing significant assets. it would do wonders for Barrett’s development too. He’s a PG who can improve the flow of the offense without completely taking the ball out of his hands.

Didn't you already post this prior in the thread?

Essentially you are proposing to trade Burks, Noel and a 1st for Brunson based on 17 games leading the point for Dallas without Luka. You will also willing to pay Brunson $20M per season. I'm not a Brunson hater - but I would question if he would be a good fit for this team under Thibs. You appear to be only looking at the offensive side of the ball in terms of what Brunson might bring, however we have a defensive minded coach who for the most part trusts players get after it on D (perhaps with the exception of Randle). If the Knicks do bring in Brunson - it tells me that the FO and HC are still not working in sync.

The cost of acquiring Brunson is gonna be way higher than many people think here. Brogdon is a better defender bigger and no way Indiana is keeping him.