Knicks · Let's talk about Obi (page 4)

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

Why good Sir, you cannot have two starting power forwards that cannot play other positions on the same team, that's just bad team balance. As time has shown Thibs goes with the veterans even if there are better alternatives right there in front of him. But don't let my opinion get in your way of thinking, that's simply what I think and I am no head coach, as incoherent as it may seem.
Thibs needs the front office to put him in position to succeed, if we failed as playoff contenders we need to try our luck as a rebuilding team. So let's not get ahead of ourselves and talk about management and all that. They need time too to work through this.

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Obi is to Kenny Walker as Randle is to Pat Cummings

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

Actually it is a stretch and shows too much bias to be taken seriously. Kenny Walker never showed any progress or development in several years as a Knick. Obi has already shown defensive improvement, an occasional three point shot and some quick moves to the basket in year 2 with limited minutes. He likely won't come anywhere close to Amare or that level of ability - but he has shown greater potential than Walker ever possessed. I remember Kenny Walker well and never recalled him doing anything offensively that required dribbling (eg majority was alley oops or offensive rebounds/putbacks). Kenny Walker was out of the league a few years later btw. I see Obi as a 14-15pt, 6 rebound type of player that helps ball movement, chemistry and NBA pacing. Guess time will tell if he's out of the league in a few years.

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

I don't think you can underestimate that value of having Steve Nash as point guard for a guy like Amare Stoudemire in an open offense like SSOL under Mike D'antoni. We know what Amare looks like in a closed offense in NY under Woodson. But you can't judge Toppin by the lack of minutes he is playing. What I have seen since March has made me think Toppin has tremendous upside and deserves a chance to play somewhere. He shouldn't be stuck behind Randle indefinitely. Toppin needs to keep getting consistent minutes. I think he performs.

EwingsGlass wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

I don't think you can underestimate that value of having Steve Nash as point guard for a guy like Amare Stoudemire in an open offense like SSOL under Mike D'antoni. We know what Amare looks like in a closed offense in NY under Woodson. But you can't judge Toppin by the lack of minutes he is playing. What I have seen since March has made me think Toppin has tremendous upside and deserves a chance to play somewhere. He shouldn't be stuck behind Randle indefinitely. Toppin needs to keep getting consistent minutes. I think he performs.

I don't know man. Amare was ROY and scoring 20 a game at 20 before Nash arrived and then, outside of the first 40 games or so, Amare's knees were shot with the Knicks. I'm not sure how much coaching had to do with it.

Agree that Obi needs a different role than back up to Randle.

Who knew Kenny Walker was this skilled? Confidence, minutes and offseason work have unlocked his skill-set. Love the way he has been playing since he was inserted into the starting lineup. Love the way this team is playing with him in the starting lineup. No way can this kid go back to 12-15 mins per next year. The front office has some decisions to make this off-season...

As we have all seen, Obi is a high energy guy. His constant movement creates easy scoring opportunities for himself, and his teammates are getting better at finding him when he cuts to the basket or leaks out on the break. His 3pt shot is inconsistent but is improving, as evidence by his last game. He has some untapped potential as a low post scorer with his quick hops and elevation. His defense is still only average but he is playable and definitely tries hard on defense. The main weakness I see with Toppin is that I don't think he has the strength to consistently score in the post, and while games like last night are impressive, he has yet to show that he consistently score against a defense focused on stopping him. I think he has the potential to get to that level, but he needs about 27-30 minutes a game and two more years before I think he reaches his full potential. At some point, the Knicks have to make a decision as to whether they are going to keep Randle or Obi because neither is good enough defensively to play center and they both are worthy of starting. My guess is that either this summer or at the next trade deadline, the Knicks will trade Obi or Randle in a package deal for a superstar or someone like Zion.

EwingsGlass wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

I don't think you can underestimate that value of having Steve Nash as point guard for a guy like Amare Stoudemire in an open offense like SSOL under Mike D'antoni. We know what Amare looks like in a closed offense in NY under Woodson. But you can't judge Toppin by the lack of minutes he is playing. What I have seen since March has made me think Toppin has tremendous upside and deserves a chance to play somewhere. He shouldn't be stuck behind Randle indefinitely. Toppin needs to keep getting consistent minutes. I think he performs.

Agree, just wonder how we are getting rid of Randle’s whale of a contract

Y’know we coulda traded him last summer for a bunch of draft picks. A couple posters were saying that and got called clowns

ramtour420 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

Why good Sir, you cannot have two starting power forwards that cannot play other positions on the same team, that's just bad team balance. As time has shown Thibs goes with the veterans even if there are better alternatives right there in front of him. But don't let my opinion get in your way of thinking, that's simply what I think and I am no head coach, as incoherent as it may seem.
Thibs needs the front office to put him in position to succeed, if we failed as playoff contenders we need to try our luck as a rebuilding team. So let's not get ahead of ourselves and talk about management and all that. They need time too to work through this.

We got Burks playing PG you can’t tell me Obi can’t play SF and Randle PF or the other way around.

Vmart wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

Why good Sir, you cannot have two starting power forwards that cannot play other positions on the same team, that's just bad team balance. As time has shown Thibs goes with the veterans even if there are better alternatives right there in front of him. But don't let my opinion get in your way of thinking, that's simply what I think and I am no head coach, as incoherent as it may seem.
Thibs needs the front office to put him in position to succeed, if we failed as playoff contenders we need to try our luck as a rebuilding team. So let's not get ahead of ourselves and talk about management and all that. They need time too to work through this.

We got Burks playing PG you can’t tell me Obi can’t play SF and Randle PF or the other way around.

Well, just because Burks played the PG doesn't mean he can. Our season has showed why. I suspect it's similar with Obi or Randle trying to play the SF. NBA now is a league where offensive players have an advantage. Can you imagine them trying to guard a SF?

My thing with Toppin is in order for me to see him as a long term starter he has to be providing something else of consistent value other than being another lob threat in the Pnr with high bball IQ.

Can Obi become a plus multi positional defender?
Can Obi become a 3pt sniper who you can run set plays for where teams can’t afford to leave him open?
Can Obi become an off the dribble threat who has no issue creating his on shot? Punish mismatches? Pull-up off the dribble? A post up game?

Right now Obi is not any of those things at 23. If our goal is to ultimately build a championship team then I’d like to at least see one of those things from him before I think he could be a starter for us. Right now projects as a very solid big off the bench. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it also means we gain nothing from offloading Randle to let him develop.

if Obi becomes a great 3pt shooter , he can be somthing special

Vmart wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

Why good Sir, you cannot have two starting power forwards that cannot play other positions on the same team, that's just bad team balance. As time has shown Thibs goes with the veterans even if there are better alternatives right there in front of him. But don't let my opinion get in your way of thinking, that's simply what I think and I am no head coach, as incoherent as it may seem.
Thibs needs the front office to put him in position to succeed, if we failed as playoff contenders we need to try our luck as a rebuilding team. So let's not get ahead of ourselves and talk about management and all that. They need time too to work through this.

We got Burks playing PG you can’t tell me Obi can’t play SF and Randle PF or the other way around.

Obi isn’t fast enough to defend most SF’s. Teams would also go with a 3 guard alignment and use smaller quicker guards to run around Obi

Burks played pg this year. Technically that’s true. Was he good at it? No

nadavshomron wrote:if Obi becomes a great 3pt shooter , he can be somthing special

He shot 39% from 3 his last year in college. If he could simply just be in that neighborhood as a 3 point shooter in the nba yes I agree he could be really good

Philc1 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

I don't think you can underestimate that value of having Steve Nash as point guard for a guy like Amare Stoudemire in an open offense like SSOL under Mike D'antoni. We know what Amare looks like in a closed offense in NY under Woodson. But you can't judge Toppin by the lack of minutes he is playing. What I have seen since March has made me think Toppin has tremendous upside and deserves a chance to play somewhere. He shouldn't be stuck behind Randle indefinitely. Toppin needs to keep getting consistent minutes. I think he performs.

Agree, just wonder how we are getting rid of Randle’s whale of a contract

Y’know we coulda traded him last summer for a bunch of draft picks. A couple posters were saying that and got called clowns

We extended him after an All NBA season. Who said that? The clowns are the ones making shit up.
No doubt not everyone was on board with Randle but respect the timeline. He took less than max which was not awful. Not saying he had a great season. If he don’t hit his incentives, his deal is not as you like to inflate it.

nadavshomron wrote:if Obi becomes a great 3pt shooter , he can be somthing special

Ht 40% and he “we here” status!

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Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

I don't think you can underestimate that value of having Steve Nash as point guard for a guy like Amare Stoudemire in an open offense like SSOL under Mike D'antoni. We know what Amare looks like in a closed offense in NY under Woodson. But you can't judge Toppin by the lack of minutes he is playing. What I have seen since March has made me think Toppin has tremendous upside and deserves a chance to play somewhere. He shouldn't be stuck behind Randle indefinitely. Toppin needs to keep getting consistent minutes. I think he performs.

Agree, just wonder how we are getting rid of Randle’s whale of a contract

Y’know we coulda traded him last summer for a bunch of draft picks. A couple posters were saying that and got called clowns

We extended him after an All NBA season. Who said that? The clowns are the ones making shit up.
No doubt not everyone was on board with Randle but respect the timeline. He took less than max which was not awful. Not saying he had a great season. If he don’t hit his incentives, his deal is not as you like to inflate it.

Defending bad moves after they are obviously bad moves is your specialty

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Nice breakdown of Obi's impact on the team....

I honestly feel that Obi's ceiling is higher than Randle's. With RJ taking on the lead role we don't need another ISo player in Randle. And with Thibs sticking with Randle no matter what the numbers say we need our management to get rid of Randle in order to let Obi develop

If Obi's ceiling is that high, why would he have a problem developing around Randle or anyone else? They are two completely different players.
Obi love and Randle hate are apparently the two sides of the same incoherent coin.

Maybe we should get rid of Thibs too? And our management? And any other PF/C on the team? I heard Sims is stealing time from Obi, better get rid of him for developmental Obi purposes.

Holy shit.

I started this thread to point out how well Obi has been playing with extended minutes. Nothing more. Not one time did I mention Randles name...You are the one pitting these two players against each other. You called Obi, Kenny Walker, in another thread in an attempt to defend Randle....

Ummm, read up, oh thread starter. I'm responding to ramtour's 4 mentions of Randle in two sentences, not your non-mention of Randle in the original post...

And calling Obi Kenny Walker is not a stretch, unless you think Obi's robotic, stand still jumper is the new NBA standard... they both leap out of the gym, they both flailed away excitedly on defense, they both exhibit limited BB IQ, etc, etc. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, Obi's not exactly showing up as the next coming of Amare, as some have conjectured.

I don't think you can underestimate that value of having Steve Nash as point guard for a guy like Amare Stoudemire in an open offense like SSOL under Mike D'antoni. We know what Amare looks like in a closed offense in NY under Woodson. But you can't judge Toppin by the lack of minutes he is playing. What I have seen since March has made me think Toppin has tremendous upside and deserves a chance to play somewhere. He shouldn't be stuck behind Randle indefinitely. Toppin needs to keep getting consistent minutes. I think he performs.

Agree, just wonder how we are getting rid of Randle’s whale of a contract

Y’know we coulda traded him last summer for a bunch of draft picks. A couple posters were saying that and got called clowns

We extended him after an All NBA season. Who said that? The clowns are the ones making shit up.
No doubt not everyone was on board with Randle but respect the timeline. He took less than max which was not awful. Not saying he had a great season. If he don’t hit his incentives, his deal is not as you like to inflate it.

Defending bad moves after they are obviously bad moves is your specialty

Not cognizant of facts is yours.
Look up the meaning of "Incentives".