Knicks · My all-in trade to reset the Knicks: Ivey & Daniels in, RJ & Randle out. (page 1)
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These are the 2 trades I’d try to build around to reset the franchise. I am building around defense, rebounding, ball movers, and 2 elite fast guys who get up and down court. I just think Ivey’s speed as a breakdown guy and up and down court is what you need as a deep playoff team. These trades resets the salary cap and allow you to lose for 1 more season to capture another high 2023 pick.
The guys I want to keep on team: IQ, Obi, Grimes, McBride. Asset I’d hesitate to give up (or I’d heavily protect): Knicks 2023. Everything else is up for grabs if I can get both players. After another year, they would only have Fournier on the books for $20M and that’s it (and maybe Mtich). Clean cap.
Trade #1: RJ + other for #4 if Ivey still on board. From the Knicks perspective, you have to literally wait until the last hour to even get to the point of either offering or more like acquiescing to including RJ in a trade. I don’t really understand RJ’s value to teams (and I obviously have great pessimism about his ceiling) but this is the red line moment for the Knicks if this trade can go down. Do you risk RJ for Ivey? And quite frankly, is it enough? I have no idea but it gets a pillar type player for Sac; they can start RJ, Fox and rotate Davion Mitchell with both. I’d be inclined to include Cam for a lineup for Sac that looks like: Fox, RJ, Cam, Harrison, Sabonis. Knicks got a boatload of other picks, players they could include.
Trade #2: Randle, #11 + other for #7 and Belsoe. If they can withhold the #11 pick from RJ trade, I’m all in on trying to see if Portland would move down 4 slots for Randle to draft Dyson Daniels. I have zero clue if this is an overpay or not (or enough or worthwhile for POR) but those are the primaries: Randle, #11 for #7 and Belsoe. Randle and Jusuf Nurkić is a poor fit but that’s all I got (feel like POR really likes Nurkic but IDK). Is moving 4 slots down in draft worth a player like Randle if you are trying to compete in the short term with Dame? Portland still would have their $20.9M trade exception to lure/get another player. Could it be a 3 team trade that also involves Detroit so that Jerami Grant goes to Portland and Pistons get #11 and other? Detroit would get the #11 to go along with the #5, give up Grant and perhaps get back more picks or players (starting with their 2023 second round pick which the Knicks own). DET could have Cade, Sharpe, Bey, PF, Duren to build around? POR can kinda sorta compete with Dame, Simons, Grant, Randle, Nurkic?
Knicks would have a ton of fast, perimeter guys who move ball and move feet. IQ, Ivey, Daniels, McBride, Grimes. I’m not drafting Ivey or Daniels as a PG in the short term. I’d want Ivey to just score and go nuts as a SG for a couple of years. I’m running with IQ, Ivey, SF, Obi, Mitch. Guards who can rebound and push and bigs who can run with them. I’m letting IQ/Obi finish what they started at end of last season and letting Ivey and Daniels marinate with the likes of Rose from a PG perspective. Off the bench in the guard spots: Rose, McBride, Grimes, Daniels. In 2 years: Ivey, IQ, Daniels, Obi start. You have 3 guys 1-3 who can be your lead guard at any time and they all push and move the ball for Obi.
I don’t buy into the Thibs won’t play rookies nonsense; he’ll love coaching guys who listen and give 100% effort and would have a blast with guys like Ivey and Daniels.
Feels like the Knicks are on their way to pursuing Ivey, no idea on what it’ll take or what they are willing to give up and if it’ll happen but I’d love it.
Also, yada yada yada, Ivey is rep'ed by CAA and his agent is nephew of Leon, so there is that.
Caveat #2: I think Atlanta is all in on either Gobert or Ayton. Lots of if's here but if they need to include Bogi or Kevin Huerter in that type of trade, I say they go in and trade Gallo for Fournier (especially if Gobert headed to Hawks) cause Gallo is old and expiring and they will have little maneuverability after and need another spacer.
Caveat #3: If Randle/RJ off cap AND Fournier can be moved, Brunson suddenly becomes attainable. I think. I didn't do that math but it feels almost right.
Thought this was a good summary of the Knicks-Ivey situation
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Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.
Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Pretty radical reboot. And i get the logic except i'd like to find a way to keep RJ. his head is screwed on straight and is a force for positive change.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
The one thing RJ does occasionally do nicely is get to the rim and get easy baskets. I think he might have been better when he was playing as a SG and could use his size more.
But- if I can trade him straight up for pick 4 in this draft and get Ivey, there is a lot of reasons to make that move.
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
The one thing RJ does occasionally do nicely is get to the rim and get easy baskets. I think he might have been better when he was playing as a SG and could use his size more.
But- if I can trade him straight up for pick 4 in this draft and get Ivey, there is a lot of reasons to make that move.
He is a downhill guy that does get to the rim but for as much as he does, he misses a lot of easy ones, and I worry about that.
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
The one thing RJ does occasionally do nicely is get to the rim and get easy baskets. I think he might have been better when he was playing as a SG and could use his size more.
But- if I can trade him straight up for pick 4 in this draft and get Ivey, there is a lot of reasons to make that move.
He is a downhill guy that does get to the rim but for as much as he does, he misses a lot of easy ones, and I worry about that.
Guys can improve facets of their game.
But Kevin Knox was pretty good his first year, and he is nearly out of the league- same for DSjr.
I have a hard time seeing the FO make this kind of move.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
Don't think that Randle trade has a chance - but sure wish it did. Not sure about RJ's ceiling but pairing him with an elite athletic SG could open things up for him and our team. Randle playing always slowed the pace down (except for 1/2 of the Lakers game when he looked great) and if we are set to build with IQ, Toppin - really think Ivey could boost RJ's production. Only caveat I have it how is Ivey's outside shot? I'm biased toward RJ but would move him for the right guy but is Ivey really a sure thing?
I would move RJ for Lavine or an established player but RJ's floor is a still a starter/guy you can win with (just not the star). How about you send Randle elsewhere and make the trade RJ to Portland for Anfernee Simons instead? He's up and coming but not yet a star - he seems like he has it and is somewhat proven. Randle to LA in salary dump which allows us to move up in draft, consolidate and reset by moving older expensive vets.
NY - Anfernee Simons, Bledsoe, Winslow, R. Westbrook, S. Johnson, #7 (Port)
LA - Julius Randle, D. Rose, Burks
(Westbrook off books and LA receives Randle, Rose quality backup PG, Burks solid bench scoring)
Portland - RJ Barrett, N. Noel, K. Walker, #11 pick (NY)
(RJ more complementary as a slasher whereas Simons is smaller w/Lillard, salary dump to NY (Winslow, Bledsoe), still keep a lottery pick)
NY Roster
Immanuel Quickley (McBride)
Anfernee Simons (Fournier)
Quentin Grimes (Cam Reddish, #7 wing pick - J.Davis/Mathurin/D.Daniels)
Obi Toppin (Taj)
Mitch Robinson (Sims)
Sit/Waive/Emergency - Westbrook, S. Johnson, Winslow, Bledsoe
We like this and feel its ok to lose more to develop but we forget the pitfalls which is playes don’t always work out.
What we know. Randle ceiling is All star level Bonfide. It happend. No fans helped? Perhaps. Attitude as bad as fans paint? Debatable. Cause? Unknown.
RJ second half in his 3rd season. If you can break it off and look it it that way you see allstar stats or near to it.
We can blast knicks for not drafting but as demonstrated even with his inconsistancy he trajectory better is Jimmy butler or Derozen and for that some think Daniels is a better prospect?
Yet, we fear by paying him he will be frozen and not get better from here?
We also know that no other player after reaching all star status will be salty again? some are expounding on bringing Kyrie here but can’t handle Randle attitude? Randle for sure gets the benefit of the doubt in my book. He gets to spend his off season with a therapist and work on better exhibiting his frustrations. Thats easier then getting Daniels a shot that he has yet to show.
Im not against trading Randle but not thinking he is a dump. Not the first time a player exibited frustration on the court. Leon might not talk much but he is not stupid. If the right deal came he’d do it.
RJ needs to be in the Julius spot where he is creating and has shooters around him.
He will work himself into a star.
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
The one thing RJ does occasionally do nicely is get to the rim and get easy baskets. I think he might have been better when he was playing as a SG and could use his size more.
But- if I can trade him straight up for pick 4 in this draft and get Ivey, there is a lot of reasons to make that move.
He is a downhill guy that does get to the rim but for as much as he does, he misses a lot of easy ones, and I worry about that.
Guys can improve facets of their game.
But Kevin Knox was pretty good his first year, and he is nearly out of the league- same for DSjr.
I have a hard time seeing the FO make this kind of move.
Do not see Rose "Resetting". He will most likely just make adjustments. All our trade assets will be saved for a true game changer. IE. DM type. Don't think Ivey is that? Too Risky imo.
Could see them considering trading RJ for Ivey. However, Kings have been rumored to be asking a "Kings Ransom" for the 4th. RJ and the 11th don't seem to be that. I know Knick fans wont admit it but Randle has much more value than RJ since he is a former All Star and has been producing for years at an elite level. So think that proposal has more legs. But, as mentioned, that would be a Rose reset which I think he is not prepared to do. Not to mention that the Kings probably want more than Randle and the 11th as well. Reasons why the Knicks probably bowed out. The asking price seems to indicate the Kings actually want to keep the 4th. Unless someone is stupid enough to offer that ransom. They are currently looking to trade for Collins but without offering the 4th. Kings know that they will get a top player at 4. Maybe they feel as I do that Ivey goes top three and one of the projected top three falls to them?
I know the fan base and media are expecting a blockbuster move but this FO has showed us that it is not their goal to make splashy headlines.
I see them trading down and filling some needs. Williams, decent back up PG in the draft? Maybe Brogdon for the 11th and some garbage pieces, I think, are the extent of that splash.
Fact is that deal don’t happen until Ivey lands at the 4. You can’t do a thing prior. Maybe Chet has a bad xray on his back and he drops, or Rockets/OKC do another deal and team wants IVEY and Kings plan changes. so many variables.
Randles production and salary is actually attractive on some levels. Take away his salty fan reaction and put him on a better team you get a highly productive player in his prime. If you don’t think ths, he is not an attractive tradable asset to kings in this instance. If the 11 and Randle don’t get it done then I’d just assume past. Granted, if we go higher than I assume FO loves IVEY upside. We rolling with a very young team which fits in the NY hockey Rangers mold of long yoot building and we gearing up for the lottery of the French kid coming out next year.
At least one need not worry about Kyrie here!
Definitely not up for that - I think locking up RJ is one of the easiest decisions NYK management has on their plate. He's improved each year with us, making noticeable adjustments along the way. We've seen things click for him, getting more assertive on offense, recognizing his strength going to the basket and giving the trigger a break from 3 (although he's improved from there considerably too!)
2nd half RJ last year was looking like an alpha. Love the chemistry he's go with Mitch, Quick, Obi. Yes, the missed layups are painful and he's got to improve there. But 100% believe he will. In the meantime, Mitch is eating those offensive rebounds up.
I need a sure thing if we're trading RJ, and I'm just not getting that from this draft.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
So your thought is to continue with the trend of blowing it up every 2-3 years? This time bringing in fast/athletic guys who aren't particularly accurate shooters in an NBA that is ever more focused on the 3 ball? Last year - Daniels shot 25% from 3, Ivey shot 36% (same as RJ's average from the longer NBA 3).
You also watch every game RJ plays and appear to focus on his flaws. Do you do the same for guys like Ivey? For instance, what do you know about his effort on D or how consistent his shooting is from game to game? The Purdue offense was built around a strong low post game - pounding low to Edey (7'4") and Williams (American his junior year). Defenses were often forced to collapse - allowing the guards/wings to roam free beyond the arc for kick-out open looks or dribble penetration or taking pre-occupying the other team's shot blocker. Ivey with a 29% usage rate averaged only 3 assists and close to 3 turnovers. By comparison Randle averaged almost the exact same usage for the Knicks last year with 5+ assists and 3+ turnovers - and people here want to run him out of town because he's a ball-stopper and flipped the bird. RJ averaged a notch below at 27+ usage with 3 assists and 2.2 TO - and I think you've claimed his passing ability to be sh!T.
I don't mind Ivey on the Knicks (with RJ) and as I've stated, he can be a beast of a shooting guard/wing if he continues to progress his outside shot. However giving up significant assets or emptying the roster to acquire him does not seem prudent to me.
Key for me with RJ is playing him at the 2 where his size creates big problems. I am not sure RJ is the guy, but cant say he isnt or wont be. I wanna see RJ play this year under Thibs. The talent is there imo and he knows what he needs to work on
foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don’t like a backcourt built around guys who can’t really shoot. I think either on their own is nice. Ivey alongside Barrett would be what we need. Barrett playing in the open floor with a guy like Ivey will unlock his game and make him a more efficient player. That is what we need. Daniels is a glue guy but Ivey with Barrett would be very dynamic.Why you building around RJ then? He just showed us for 3 straight years that he can't really shoot.
Barrett shot 40% from 3pt without much spacing around him. High volume too. He’s proven he can shoot. You’re plan involves way too many unknowns for my taste. I know you’re down on Barrett somewhat over the years. He’s still not a guaranteed star. But if you move him it would need to be for a sure thing. But you can never say a guy who shoots 40% from 3 in a clunky lineup can’t shoot.
For me, you are trading for a guy in Ivey that will have an elite skill: his speed. I don't think RJ has an elite skill that he can fall back on when his shot is not falling or even one that he can use to separate himself. Ivey does AND pretty soon you need to make the Max decision on RJ.
RJ is just not good as a finisher at rim, below average FT shooter, sucks at the midrange. Even if he makes those MUCH better, that will still fall into the average range.
To put the 40% shooting into perspective, he has had about 4 good months of downtown shooting from over ~13 months worth of games across last 2 years; I don't think that makes him a proven shoot, IMO that's a shooter who got hot for a few months. And I don't think it's a spacing thing, a lot of those 3's are wide open.
So your thought is to continue with the trend of blowing it up every 2-3 years? This time bringing in fast/athletic guys who aren't particularly accurate shooters in an NBA that is ever more focused on the 3 ball? Last year - Daniels shot 25% from 3, Ivey shot 36% (same as RJ's average from the longer NBA 3).You also watch every game RJ plays and appear to focus on his flaws. Do you do the same for guys like Ivey? For instance, what do you know about his effort on D or how consistent his shooting is from game to game? The Purdue offense was built around a strong low post game - pounding low to Edey (7'4") and Williams (American his junior year). Defenses were often forced to collapse - allowing the guards/wings to roam free beyond the arc for kick-out open looks or dribble penetration or taking pre-occupying the other team's shot blocker. Ivey with a 29% usage rate averaged only 3 assists and close to 3 turnovers. By comparison Randle averaged almost the exact same usage for the Knicks last year with 5+ assists and 3+ turnovers - and people here want to run him out of town because he's a ball-stopper and flipped the bird. RJ averaged a notch below at 27+ usage with 3 assists and 2.2 TO - and I think you've claimed his passing ability to be sh!T.
I don't mind Ivey on the Knicks (with RJ) and as I've stated, he can be a beast of a shooting guard/wing if he continues to progress his outside shot. However giving up significant assets or emptying the roster to acquire him does not seem prudent to me.
You could use that same logic in a poker game. "So, your logic is to fold hands that you don't think can win?". Yes. My logic is not to "blow it up" but I am comfortable moving on from players that don't seem to be working out.
Your arguments against Ivey are more detailed than mine. I am not pro-Ivey, but I am pro-"Something has got to change".
I might be taking Barrett and Randle at their worst, but I don't think either is the lead player on a championship team and I don't think they can even defer to each other let alone another star player.