Knicks · The NBA summer of fun!……..2022 (DRAFT, FA, Trades) (page 25)

I agree ... doesn't make sense ..

Clean wrote:

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Yet another strike for not trying to tank when we had no chance for the playoffs. By the time the 11th pick came everyone they thought was worth drafting was gone. So now we kick the can down the road with multiple even worst picks. Situations like this will be forgotten by the anti tank group the next time we in the midst of a lost season and other fans want the Knicks to tank. Pistons tank and come out with a team packed with good young talent. We got rid of 8 to 9 mil of an already expiring contract and draft picks that are likely to turn into 2nd rounders in the far future. You have to be willing to be the butt of jokes for you to be bad enough to get real talent. We always go half way and end up the butt of jokes anyway without the talent after it. Now that I got that off my chest I am done complaining. Like I said before this is my coping mechanisms with being extremely disappointed by this team. Lets see what this FO does to maybe change our fortunes for the better during the off season.

Whenever your coping mechanism flares up, breathe deeply, and just keep saying "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" For every Joel Embiid, there's Ben Simmons, MCW, Markelle Fulks, etc, etc, etc... And remember, Hinkie's not even in the league anymore.

How about having a FO that's good enough to get real talent?

smackeddog wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Remember that time we traded the 21 pick for the Charlotte pick and then traded the Charlotte pick for Reddish only to not play Reddish. That was fun.

Reminds me of that time we passed on Jalen Duren with the 11 pick for unknown with the idea we were getting the 13 pick and then Detroit swooped in and took the 13 pick instead and then felt sorry so they took Kemba off our hands.

I couldn’t be more unsatisfied.

And then tried to trade Reddish 2 weeks later to try and dump Burkes, to free up playing time for... Reddish. It's at that point I realized there is no ingenious 4d master plan. They simply craft Plan A, Plan B, Plan C and Plan B in every case by case situation, set their price for each and then methodically/tediously work their way down through each failing plan until they get to the contingency plan that they can execute. Sure, they 'hope' ultimately a star becomes available, but that's a hope not a master plan

Actually, we included Reddish in a proposed deal for 35 yr old Goran f****** Dragic to appease this coach and chase the 10th seed

RSparrow2 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Seems like Knicks were expecting Chandler to fall to 42 and didn’t

The Knick brass expect the are the smartest in the NBA, they are not ..

Why? Because we didn’t draft another mediocre wing?

Uptown wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Remember that time we traded the 21 pick for the Charlotte pick and then traded the Charlotte pick for Reddish only to not play Reddish. That was fun.

Reminds me of that time we passed on Jalen Duren with the 11 pick for unknown with the idea we were getting the 13 pick and then Detroit swooped in and took the 13 pick instead and then felt sorry so they took Kemba off our hands.

I couldn’t be more unsatisfied.

And then tried to trade Reddish 2 weeks later to try and dump Burkes, to free up playing time for... Reddish. It's at that point I realized there is no ingenious 4d master plan. They simply craft Plan A, Plan B, Plan C and Plan B in every case by case situation, set their price for each and then methodically/tediously work their way down through each failing plan until they get to the contingency plan that they can execute. Sure, they 'hope' ultimately a star becomes available, but that's a hope not a master plan

Actually, we included Reddish in a proposed deal for 35 yr old Goran f****** Dragic to appease this coach and chase the 10th seed

oh boy.. is it now time unleash on Thibs? Joy

I really did not like anyone that much after Davis was taken at 10 so trading out for 3 picks next year is not the end of the world. The 2023 draft projects to be better. I just don't like adding a 1st just to get rid of Kemba, who was an expiring contract. But now this regime HAS to come away with Brunson. No excuses. Cause there aren't any other great free agent PGs available, unless you want to take a risk on Sexton.

I am actually not that upset. We got some draft capital. We got some cap space. They tried to get Ivey and when that didn't happen they punted. We have a lot of youngins. Hopefully, we try to get Brunson or Donovan Mitchell.

Now, trade Randle and I will be happy.

Now go sign Kai Sotto to the summer league and make this old Flip happy.

Well the pants wetting is in full force. Hopefully it won’t cause the levee to break and when the river subsides we can calmly (yeah right) assess that which we cannot comprehend. Rather than “fire Rose right now!” because we didn’t walk away with a draftee with questions. Perhaps there is more to come? Perhaps those draft picks translate into shiny toys that will be loved for multiple moments? Most importantly to me - let’s see if the Knicks progress next season particularly with our young core.

In the meantime enjoy that warm damp sensation!

SergioNYK wrote:I really did not like anyone that much after Davis was taken at 10 so trading out for 3 picks next year is not the end of the world. The 2023 draft projects to be better. I just don't like adding a 1st just to get rid of Kemba, who was an expiring contract. But now this regime HAS to come away with Brunson. No excuses. Cause there aren't any other great free agent PGs available, unless you want to take a risk on Sexton.

There's a good chance that the Milwaukee pick is the only first that conveys. I'm high on Brunson, tho I'm a bit squeamish about giving him $25M per. If they bring in Brunson, the cap situation is worse and they're still looking at a play-in...at best. I'll wait to see the next steps, but I'm not optimistic.

NYKBocker wrote:I am actually not that upset. We got some draft capital. We got some cap space. They tried to get Ivey and when that didn't happen they punted. We have a lot of youngins. Hopefully, we try to get Brunson or Donovan Mitchell.

Now, trade Randle and I will be happy.

I can't help but feel a little disappointed, the cost to dump Kemba seems like a big overpay.

Aside from that, I didn't really care much about this draft and am fine with trading out of it - we've got a good pool of youth on the roster already that we need to develop and see what we've got. Those protected 1sts still carry value in our war chest - see the "1st" we traded for Cam.

Net net, it doesn't feel like last night really impacted us positively or negatively. Tempering my expectations in Free Agency (I don't particularly want Brunson, but I guess I'd rather make a play with cap space than a sign and trade...)

can someone fill me in on the real cost of the Kemba dump

wasn't it just Denver's pick in 23 but we got Milwaukee's in 25. (plus a bunch of seconds)

BigDaddyG wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I really did not like anyone that much after Davis was taken at 10 so trading out for 3 picks next year is not the end of the world. The 2023 draft projects to be better. I just don't like adding a 1st just to get rid of Kemba, who was an expiring contract. But now this regime HAS to come away with Brunson. No excuses. Cause there aren't any other great free agent PGs available, unless you want to take a risk on Sexton.

There's a good chance that the Milwaukee pick is the only first that conveys. I'm high on Brunson, tho I'm a bit squeamish about giving him $25M per. If they bring in Brunson, the cap situation is worse and they're still looking at a play-in...at best. I'll wait to see the next steps, but I'm not optimistic.

Its classic Knicks... and perfect for MSG. Truth is we have some "decent" players and some young guys. We are not getting Mitchell. Gobert would have been a better target.

Anyway... we arent trading for a star. Nobody gives a phuck about collecting 4 FRPs that are all protected for years to come. Great for drafting role players.

RJ will get his big money after Brunson is signed, we resign Mitch, use the extra picks to move Noel/Burks to get Brunson in here. So we will basically be a hard capped team with some modest future draft assets and a core of:
SL: Brunson/RJ/Fournier/Randle/Mitch
Bench: Rose/IQ/Obi/Grimes/Reddish/Sims/McBride

Thibs will get them to play hard and win enough regular season games to avoid a play in maybe even before getting smoked in the first round, but we will be a playoff team and talking about how close we are to the next level bla bla bla bla

Maybe we get lucky and IQ/Obi/Grimes etc pops and we get lucky with a bigtime player.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I really did not like anyone that much after Davis was taken at 10 so trading out for 3 picks next year is not the end of the world. The 2023 draft projects to be better. I just don't like adding a 1st just to get rid of Kemba, who was an expiring contract. But now this regime HAS to come away with Brunson. No excuses. Cause there aren't any other great free agent PGs available, unless you want to take a risk on Sexton.

There's a good chance that the Milwaukee pick is the only first that conveys. I'm high on Brunson, tho I'm a bit squeamish about giving him $25M per. If they bring in Brunson, the cap situation is worse and they're still looking at a play-in...at best. I'll wait to see the next steps, but I'm not optimistic.

Its classic Knicks... and perfect for MSG. Truth is we have some "decent" players and some young guys. We are not getting Mitchell. Gobert would have been a better target.

Anyway... we arent trading for a star. Nobody gives a phuck about collecting 4 FRPs that are all protected for years to come. Great for drafting role players.

RJ will get his big money after Brunson is signed, we resign Mitch, use the extra picks to move Noel/Burks to get Brunson in here. So we will basically be a hard capped team with some modest future draft assets and a core of:
SL: Brunson/RJ/Fournier/Randle/Mitch
Bench: Rose/IQ/Obi/Grimes/Reddish/Sims/McBride

Thibs will get them to play hard and win enough regular season games to avoid a play in maybe even before getting smoked in the first round, but we will be a playoff team and talking about how close we are to the next level bla bla bla bla

Maybe we get lucky and IQ/Obi/Grimes etc pops and we get lucky with a bigtime player.

This.

It's not about Brunson or cap space.

It's all about Thibs/Rose and belligerent basketball.

BRIGGS wrote:Knicks think they know basketball better than the entire league. That’s exactly how they acted— they blew up the draft after Johnny Davis was gone. Knicks smarter than Sam presti Knicks smarter than Memphis golden state Miami et al who were not out there dumping much later picks.the Knicks really made a big bet on there own as is team. That’s it

I almost agree- the issue is Knicks exceptionalism where we seem to think the normal rules of the nba don't apply to us. Nearly every other team knows when you have nothing you have to tank to get a high chance at a franchise changing talent multiple years- see how it bears fruits for the Rockets, Pistons, OKC. See how it paid off for the Raptors the previous season. Instead we seem to think building a winning culture is the answer. Good luck! How about you land franchise changing talent via tanking THEN establish a winning culture after you've established a development culture (the latter of which at least we seem to be doing okay). Instead we had the madness of trying to win games well after it was clear we weren't doing anything, as a result we ended up with a s*** pick and couldn't execute the trade we wanted as a result. What did we learn? To try and win again next season. Brilliant.

Panos wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Clean wrote:

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I am no draft expert but these picks seem crappy.

Well OKC have been praised as geniuses for having them all this time. They are literally the same picks. Not sure why they're great and ingenious if OKC have them, but as soon as we get them they're trash.

Why do teams receiving these protected picks allow them to get converted to 2nd rounders if they have failed to convey after a few years, instead of the protection just going away? If you have to wait 5 years to get your pick, shouldn't it be a better pick, not a worse one?

Yeah, it used to confuse me, but I think it's because the picks have to have an end date otherwise they could theoretically roll over into infinity which would mess up the teams ability to trade other firsts.

Chandler wrote:
can someone fill me in on the real cost of the Kemba dump

wasn't it just Denver's pick in 23 but we got Milwaukee's in 25. (plus a bunch of seconds)

Yeah, essentially it was a pick swap (the first rounder- NOT giving up a first), and 4 seconds.

This had the best explanation:

Draft night for the New York Knicks is usually pretty simple: they make a pick their fans hate, the fans boo it like crazy and the the fans' negative reaction then becomes a story of its own. Thursday night was not so straightforward, as the Knicks were the busiest team in the 2022 NBA Draft.

They pulled off three separate trades that had players and picks flying all over the place, and it took hours to figure out all of the details. Now that the dust has settled, let's take a closer look at all the moves the Knicks made on Thursday.

Knicks-Thunder trade
Knicks receive:

2023 first round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)
2023 first round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)
2023 first round pick via Denver (protected 1-14 until 2025)
Thunder receive:

No. 11 pick (Ousmane Dieng)
The Knicks had the No. 11 pick entering the night, and there was a lot of talk about them potentially moving up. Instead, they decided to trade out of the first round by sending that pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for three future first rounders. While the Knicks do need help now, getting three first round picks in exchange for one is pretty good value.

Knicks-Hornets trade
Knicks receive:

No. 13 pick (Jalen Duren)

Hornets receive:
2023 first round pick via Denver (protected 1-14 until 2025)
2023 second round pick via New York
2023 second round pick via Utah
2023 second round pick (most favorable pick between Dallas and Miami)
2024 second round pick via New York
Shortly after completing the deal with the Thunder, the Knicks then got back on the phone and worked out a trade with the Charlotte Hornets. They took the 2023 first via Denver they got in the Thunder trade, and packaged it with four future seconds for the No. 13 overall pick, who would become Jalen Duren.

Knicks-Pistons trade
Knicks receive:

2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee (protected 1-4)
Pistons receive:

No. 13 pick (Jalen Duren)
Kemba Walker
Finally, the Knicks then flipped the No. 13 pick (Jalen Duren) and Kemba Walker to the Detroit Pistons in a third deal. In return, the Knicks got a 2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee, which the Pistons had previously acquired in the Jerami Grant trade earlier this week.

Final haul for the Knicks
2023 first round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)
2023 first round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)
2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee (protected 1-4)
$18 million in cap space
After all the wheeling and dealing, the Knicks closed the night with three future first-round picks and some extra cap space. It's no secret that they're going to use that money to try and sign Jalen Brunson in free agency. They recently hired his dad as an assistant coach, and now have enough cap space to make a competitive offer. There's no guarantee that they get him, but they have a much better chance now than before the draft.

The question, though, is whether their tunnel vision for a chance to sign Brunson clouded their judgement. A lottery pick seems like a steep price to pay to jettison Walker's contract and enter the Brunson sweepstakes. It's easy to make a case that they would have been better off just making the first two trades. In that scenario, they keep Duren and walk away with two extra future firsts. As for the cap space situation, they could have figured something else out later.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-...

Bottom line, we gotta sign Brunson. There is really no excuse. These moves were made for him. I don't wanna hear about Brogdan or Sexton or anyone else. Rose and co. did these moves last night to sign this kid. So go out there and do it! He's your freaking Godson! You gave his pops a job! NO EXCUSES!!!!!

Despite all the bellyaching, it seems in essence last night we gave up the #11 pick plus Kemba. We walked away with three conditional first rounders which look to me as they will most likely be first rounders by 2027, one of which could very well be #11 or better. A ways off probably but #1's nonetheless. Also got rid of Kemba's contract.

Honestly, other than not getting your sugar rush, I don't understand the fuss. Maybe it's just Knicks fans just being addicted to their misery.

smackeddog wrote:

Chandler wrote:
can someone fill me in on the real cost of the Kemba dump

wasn't it just Denver's pick in 23 but we got Milwaukee's in 25. (plus a bunch of seconds)

Yeah, essentially it was a pick swap (the first rounder- NOT giving up a first), and 4 seconds.

This had the best explanation:

Draft night for the New York Knicks is usually pretty simple: they make a pick their fans hate, the fans boo it like crazy and the the fans' negative reaction then becomes a story of its own. Thursday night was not so straightforward, as the Knicks were the busiest team in the 2022 NBA Draft.

They pulled off three separate trades that had players and picks flying all over the place, and it took hours to figure out all of the details. Now that the dust has settled, let's take a closer look at all the moves the Knicks made on Thursday.

Knicks-Thunder trade
Knicks receive:

2023 first round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)
2023 first round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)
2023 first round pick via Denver (protected 1-14 until 2025)
Thunder receive:

No. 11 pick (Ousmane Dieng)
The Knicks had the No. 11 pick entering the night, and there was a lot of talk about them potentially moving up. Instead, they decided to trade out of the first round by sending that pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for three future first rounders. While the Knicks do need help now, getting three first round picks in exchange for one is pretty good value.

Knicks-Hornets trade
Knicks receive:

No. 13 pick (Jalen Duren)

Hornets receive:
2023 first round pick via Denver (protected 1-14 until 2025)
2023 second round pick via New York
2023 second round pick via Utah
2023 second round pick (most favorable pick between Dallas and Miami)
2024 second round pick via New York
Shortly after completing the deal with the Thunder, the Knicks then got back on the phone and worked out a trade with the Charlotte Hornets. They took the 2023 first via Denver they got in the Thunder trade, and packaged it with four future seconds for the No. 13 overall pick, who would become Jalen Duren.

Knicks-Pistons trade
Knicks receive:

2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee (protected 1-4)
Pistons receive:

No. 13 pick (Jalen Duren)
Kemba Walker
Finally, the Knicks then flipped the No. 13 pick (Jalen Duren) and Kemba Walker to the Detroit Pistons in a third deal. In return, the Knicks got a 2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee, which the Pistons had previously acquired in the Jerami Grant trade earlier this week.

Final haul for the Knicks
2023 first round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)
2023 first round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)
2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee (protected 1-4)
$18 million in cap space
After all the wheeling and dealing, the Knicks closed the night with three future first-round picks and some extra cap space. It's no secret that they're going to use that money to try and sign Jalen Brunson in free agency. They recently hired his dad as an assistant coach, and now have enough cap space to make a competitive offer. There's no guarantee that they get him, but they have a much better chance now than before the draft.

The question, though, is whether their tunnel vision for a chance to sign Brunson clouded their judgement. A lottery pick seems like a steep price to pay to jettison Walker's contract and enter the Brunson sweepstakes. It's easy to make a case that they would have been better off just making the first two trades. In that scenario, they keep Duren and walk away with two extra future firsts. As for the cap space situation, they could have figured something else out later.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-...

That helps, thanks for sharing! I guess I was missing that we got back the Milwaukee 1st in the Detroit trade. Still don't think it was a great move, but not as lopsided as I thought!

^^ i don't think it was lopsided at all. it would have been if it was a first rounder -- instead of the swap, but when you consider the swap it make smore sense. We would have had three first rounders in 23 from the trade, plus our own plus Dallas, right? are we really going to bring in 4 or 5 first rounders on to a team. With the swap one of those is kicked out 2 years