Knicks · The NBA summer of fun!……..2022 (DRAFT, FA, Trades) (page 6)

foosballnick @ 6/23/2022 11:13 AM
Uptown wrote:
Clean wrote:

“The NBA punishes the middle.”

Yes they do. It is why we have been at a talent deficit for 20ish years.

A franchise that "gets it"! Silas, the head coach said, "Hopefully, that leads to wins, but development is the priority." I've been saying this for years. But, over the years, we have been more concerned with being somewhat relevant (bottom-middle) as opposed to tearing this thing, slowly building the foundation so it can support consistent winning in the future, and prioritizing development before all else.

3 & 4 seasons ago the Knicks were terrible two years in a row (17 and 21 wins) and dwelling at or near the very bottom. Just did not get lucky with the ping pong balls as well as be terrible going into the correct draft. There are no guarantees with tanking.

smackeddog @ 6/23/2022 11:28 AM
Uptown @ 6/23/2022 11:29 AM
foosballnick wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Clean wrote:

“The NBA punishes the middle.”

Yes they do. It is why we have been at a talent deficit for 20ish years.

A franchise that "gets it"! Silas, the head coach said, "Hopefully, that leads to wins, but development is the priority." I've been saying this for years. But, over the years, we have been more concerned with being somewhat relevant (bottom-middle) as opposed to tearing this thing, slowly building the foundation so it can support consistent winning in the future, and prioritizing development before all else.

3 & 4 seasons ago the Knicks were terrible two years in a row (17 and 21 wins) and dwelling at or near the very bottom. Just did not get lucky with the ping pong balls as well as be terrible going into the correct draft. There are no guarantees with tanking.

There are no guarantees; you are absolutely correct. But, as I mentioned, rebuilding properly is a slow grind. It takes years (certainly more than two) and a little bit of luck.

BigDaddyG @ 6/23/2022 11:36 AM
foosballnick wrote:NBA TV Mock has us taking Malaki Branham at 11.

Don't do this to me. I'm in the process of talking myself into AJ Griffin.

Philc1 @ 6/23/2022 11:41 AM
Clean wrote:

“The NBA punishes the middle.”

Yes they do. It is why we have been at a talent deficit for 20ish years.

A lot of the bad years we had we overachieved and managed to win around 30 games when our talent was really a 17-20 win roster

blkexec @ 6/23/2022 11:41 AM
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

I agree with you and ask the same question. What if IQ is that guy? Lets just say Ivey is a NBA Star....What if IQ is close to being an NBA Star? Would that still be a fair trade? What if we could trade up and get Sharpe while keeping IQ? What if Sharpe has the same impact as Ivey and he also becomes an NBA star?

I understand the hype with Ivey but I also understand there are several players in this draft who will turnout to be studs. Ivey isn't the only stud that will come out of the 2022 draft.

And IQ is the engine. Take IQ out and replace with Ivey sounds like a nice engine replacement. I said the same thing when I purchased a bmw 550i. It was great for a year, but I traded it in for a honda civic. You can have a great player but he may or may not be a great fit. We know IQ is a great fit and his chemistry makes Obi and others shine.

Just something to think about. Unless Ivey is a show fire Lebron or Kobe type player. If not, it's a risk. I like the trade up idea, but I don't like losing IQ. I'm with Fish, I rather lose Grimes than IQ.

Uptown @ 6/23/2022 11:41 AM
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

blkexec @ 6/23/2022 11:43 AM
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

I have not watched Ivey, just highlights. But if you believe he's the real deal, than you gotta trade IQ. Wow, the FO is in a tough spot.

Uptown @ 6/23/2022 11:55 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:I am a buyer of this thought process and where the Knicks/Sac are on a trade for #4. I think the Knicks FO LOVE IQ cause he is a pro's pro in terms of practice and extra work.

I would add my own caveat on top of the below: If the Knicks include IQ, they would DESPERATELY try to unload Burks, Noel, whatever to make room to go after Brunson and would try to shift the trade for #4 to help with that. Who knows though

I just posted minutes after you did that if Ivey is the transcendent player that we think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him. It's going to be painful watching IQ go, as he is prob my second-fav player on this team, but you have to give to get.

What if you think Ivey is more Bradley Beal than D. Wade? Not crapping on Ivey, but a transcendent player would have no problem being the #1 overall pick over Jabari Smith. I'd have to think long and hard on this.

I feel you! It's a risk. We don't know for sure. The only thing we do know is that the Knicks should have unique intel on this kid being that he is a CAA client. They should know if he has that edge that it takes to be an elite player in this league. They should know his personality, work ethic, background, family structure, etc. Knicks also have to make sure, their player development program assures that he reaches his absolute ceiling.

Maybe transcendent was too strong of a word, but lets not pretend like the best player of each draft has always been the 1st pick. In addition, the 3 guys ahead of him are not only really good, but they are all front-court players, and the talented big guy usually gets picked before the talented guard.

BigDaddyG @ 6/23/2022 12:01 PM
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

It's not just IQ tho. It's IQ, plus, picks and whatever else. I think Ivey will be good in time, but how good? I don't see Ja. The handle, floater package and PnR manipulation aren't close to where Ja was at on the same level. What level do you see Ivey reaching? I see borderline All Star.

BigDaddyG @ 6/23/2022 12:23 PM
ToddTT @ 6/23/2022 12:32 PM
Holy shit! 7-ish hours away!!!

It seems like forever since I’ve been kicked squarely in the nuts!!! I can’t stand the wait!!!!!

Go Knicks!!!

KnickDanger @ 6/23/2022 12:36 PM
Over the recent past from the various gasbags and frauds it's been "do whatever it takes" to get Westbrook, Mitchell, Lillard, Beal, Wall, Brunson...now it's Ivey. Varying degrees of talent at varying stages of career but the constant is to give up way too much. I'm guessing so that said gasbags and frauds can continue to make a living s#!tting on the Knicks.
Uptown @ 6/23/2022 12:44 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:If AJ Griffin falls to us you gotta take him, super young sharp shooter . A perfect compliment to rj…. Don’t trade IQ for Ivey but if we can get Ivey for Randle picks you do it . I’d even Be ok with grimes

I would stay away from Griffin due to his injury history. He missed his senior year of HS ball and I believe he missed some if not all of his junior year too. I heard an interview with a scout that mentioned that Griffin has an injury history dating back to 13 years old.

Would love to get Ivey, and I agree, I would much rather include Grimes than IQ. However, if he is the transcendent player that some people think he is, IQ can't be the reason we don't get him and IQ is one of my fav players on this team. Randle does not have the trade value that some people would lead to you believe he has.

what if IQ is that player?

Knicks are a ways away... feels premature to consolidate chips

Obi/IQ are 2nd year guys and had monster finishes. I dont really view them as chips, rather chances to build a deep core rotation. Maybe they arent that good. We will see.

IQ is prolly my fav guy on the team

IQ very well might be the pg we have been looking for, for years. Clearly, the Knicks don't feel that way, at least at this point. I love IQ he and Obi are my 2 favorite players. With that said, I don't just watch highlights, I've seen Ivey play at least 7-8 times this year. Ivey is a better player than Quickley and his presence immediately changes this teams identity, play-style, and focus from day-1. It will be painful to watch a young player like IQ leave, but like I said earlier, you have to take risks to get talent like Ivey.

It's not just IQ tho. It's IQ, plus, picks and whatever else. I think Ivey will be good in time, but how good? I don't see Ja. The handle, floater package and PnR manipulation aren't close to where Ja was at on the same level. What level do you see Ivey reaching? I see borderline All Star.

He's definitely not a Ja Morant clone. Ja averaged 10 assists per in college and was a pure pg, Ivey is a scorer and his best position is off the ball and being used as a secondary ball-handler. He reminds me a little of D Wade at Marquette. Also, the way he stops and starts, hesitates and the way he manipulates the ball to slither through defenders reminds me of Jordan Poole. Ivey is more explosive and does other things that are not as similar to Poole, but just that aspect of his game.

*Edit
At his peak, I think he can make multiple allstar teams. But, he needs to be playing for a winning team....

ToddTT @ 6/23/2022 12:47 PM
Assuming we go all in on Ivey, I just want to be the first to say that he’s a BUM and I think he’s progressing too slowly for us. I can’t believe we traded the farm for this clown.

I know this is based on nothing, but I’m just trying to get ready for next season.

smackeddog @ 6/23/2022 12:53 PM
SergioNYK wrote:Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst tonight.

Doubt we trade up for Ivey. I'll be very surprised. Seems too expensive to do so and risky going all in on an unproven player. This regime would lose their jobs unless Ivey is Ja Morant 2.0. If we stay at 11 I'm hoping for Johnny Davis but I doubt he'll be there. Most mocks have us taking AJ Griffin and I'm meh on him. I like the shooting but I do not like taking a player with knee injury history. We've never ever done well with those. So if Davis is gone, I think I'd go with Agbaji. I would strongly consider Sochan but this regime seems committed to Randle so where would he even play? If we trade down I like Jalen Williams or BouChamp.

And I'm passing on Dyson Daniels, Duren and Branham.

Same hear, though this years draft is so hard to fathom, so I'm not pinning my hopes on anyone outside of Ivey (who I refuse to believe we'll land!). I'm fine if AJ Griffin falls to us (or we trade up), same for Sharpe, because with those two we should have insider intel regarding the concerns about them- takes the edge of the knee worries for me.

martin @ 6/23/2022 12:57 PM
Cavs gave us all a scare for a quick second

smackeddog @ 6/23/2022 12:59 PM
Clean wrote:

“The NBA punishes the middle.”

Yes they do. It is why we have been at a talent deficit for 20ish years.

Correct- that's why Ivey would help break us out of that, even if he busted, we'd be building around him so would likely end up up with a better pick next year. Middle city means vets dominate the minutes, which means the younger players don't get to build their value, which means you can't get good value trading, so you have to give up more in a trade. You end up with a poorer draft pick, is it makes landing star talent via the draft harder AND leaves you with a poorer trade set. So then you risk having to give up even more in a trade. On top of that you then have to overpay the vets just to tred water. Then you can't trade them or have to give up more assets to trade them. In the end even if you install a culture (and if you look at OKC you can tank AND establish one without winning), you either trade away the young players or the vets anyways, so the whole thing was pointless.

smackeddog @ 6/23/2022 1:03 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:What if the Ivey interest is somehow a smokescreen(if it happens, good) but they are also interested in shaedon Sharpe. He is this year's mystery man. Thankfully the FO is tight with Kentucky to give them actual info. Will you guys be happy if the knicks trade up to get Sharpe?

Maybe they can pivot and focus their pg efforts on Murray. I like Murray alot, more than Brunson. Il be happy with Sharpe and Murray as offseason pick ups

Intriguing idea! I do like the draft day mystery- it sure would be clever, get the secret intel from Kentucky connection, and ask him to tank all his interviews and spread red flag rumors to keep his value down. His interviews have been so bad it's worrying if he's not tanking them (remember LaMelo did the same thing in his draft). Trust no one!

smackeddog @ 6/23/2022 1:06 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:Since Sharpe sat out last year most people know little anout him. Who is his NBA comparison? Floor and ceiling? I see JR Smith's name being tossed in as well as Zach Lavin. If he gets closer to Zach then he will be wortg trading up.

I'm not ashamed to admit it- JR Smith was one of my favorite Knicks of the past 10 years or so, despite all his flaws!- when he was on, he was fun to watch. But also maddening. Very funny too. And also maddening. I should know better but...

martin @ 6/23/2022 1:18 PM
Haha, worth the read

Chet Holmgren

High: The entire ‘04 Pistons front court (Tayshaun/Sheed/Ben) combined into one white man

Medium: A pterodactyl who hoops

Low: If Kristaps didn’t get his anemia under control

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