BRIGGS wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
You like trading pick # 11 for picks likely to be in the 20s or convey to 2nd rounders? I’m scared when I see the spurs take 3 first rounders Memphis pike drives into rd 1 Oklahoma steals our pick. Even gs picked twice. They had different opinions than u. Pick 11 is pretty good.
Quite frankly you are just whining at this point or you just don't understand what actually was traded for.
Here are the details of the #11 pick trade
• 2023 first round pick via Detroit (protected 1-18 until 2024, protected 1-13 in 2025, protected 1-11 in 2026, protected 1-9 in 2027)
• 2023 first round pick via Washington (protected 1-14 in 2023, protected 1-12 in 2024, protected 1-10 in 2025, protected 1-8 in 2026)
• 2025 first round pick via Milwaukee (protected 1-4) [Denver 2023 protected 1-14 was essentially swapped for this]
That 2023 Detroit pick will convey eventually 2025 or 2026.
Washington 2023 most likely will convey next year or 2024.
CashMoney wrote:Uptown wrote:blkexec wrote:Kemet wrote:Didn't Leon Rose watch the Mavs playoff run .. Brunson needed PG-Dinwiddie playmaker skills, plus PG-Doncic's creative distribution in his lineup to play on the next level. GS Warriors could've SWEPT the Mavs in the WCF.
Brunson is not a max contract player !!!
I agree 1000% …………… YET
Basically we have to over pay him to pry him away from Dallas. But he’s now the quarterback who plays unselfish and selfish when needed. He’s young enough to grow into a van vlette type impact. But he plays strong / downhill. I think it’s a move that might pan out if everybody takes a step forward. And Brunson is that type of player to have the ball in his hands. He’s not afraid of playing next to a star or waving Randle off to run a play. And this is now Year 3. Rose has to over pay to protect his brand as a GM. He needs swing hard but also get on base.
What if RJ and company takes a step forward? What if All star Randle is back? IQ and Obi came on strong. Lots of momentum and playoff expectations if we add Brunson and Mitch back. I believe that team competes in the playoffs better than adding a rookie at 11 just to send him to the gleague.
Rose is playing a long game of chess. Year 3 he had to make a move.
I am a fan of Brunson game. He plays off 2 feet. always on balance, has excellent foot work, is a really good finisher at the rim and is good from lid range. He will be the best pg we had in a while. But, with the way this roster is currently constructed, I don't think he moves the needle that much. I think we will continue to chase a play in spot with no guarantees that we grab one.
Brunson might not move the needle much but the possibility exists.
IMO he makes the Knicks better.
It’s not just about what Brunson does regarding his stats, but I believe having an unselfish PG who’s also skilled enough to get his own, can unleash the potential in certain players. Him and IQ gives us a solid PG rotation for both starters and second unit. But I’m hoping his impact will also be measured by the teams success. Similar to my favorite sleeper on this team in McBride. Certain guys, by their energy and effort in McBride or unselfish floor general with offensive skills in Brunson. These guys elevate the play in teammates around them. And Mitch / Sims now have a strong PG rotation of lobs coming. Mitch might take a step forward adding a young competent PG. What about adding Brunson will reduce the PG play of Randle. What if that helps Randle and RJ play more off the ball, which reduces team TOs. That’s a plus and the impact Brunson can potentially have.
SergioNYK wrote:I like Brunson and have no issues giving him $25M. He's just 25 years old and keeps getting better. I just do not see him leaving Dallas. We're gonna have to settle for our plan C or D - whoever that is.
I'm okay with the number IF we genuinely believe he has the talent and can take it to the next level as a primary option (and he might, his numbers were good when Luka is out)- but if Rose is partially pursuing this due to his family and emotional connections, that's ridiculous. Just hope he's able to put the emotion to one side before deciding.
Also, if we do land him, we need to get rid of Randle- Brunson wants greater usage if he's coming here (otherwise he'd stay with Luka)- there's not enough ball to go around with him, RJ and Randle.
Money wise, I'd rather have that kind money invested in Brunson at PG (even if he never gets better than he is now) than at shooting guard with Fournier- hope we can move the latter as I'm not sure I like him next to Brunson defensively.
If we don't land Brunson, Rose will be in trouble because the writers will have a field day with the "he can't even recruit his own god son, with his dad as assistant coach- who can he recruit?!" line
If the Mavs feel that the knicks will be Brunson's choice and suddenly back's out of their threat not to do a sign and trade, is it possible for the knicks to do a sign and trade give Fournier and hunt and what ever vet is still available to make the salary match and not touch the cap space then use that cap space for another big name free agent? I really like if they can get LaVine or say Beal. I think being able to just sign Brunson wont be enough for them to reach the 6th seed at least.
Jimbo5 wrote:If the Mavs feel that the knicks will be Brunson's choice and suddenly back's out of their threat not to do a sign and trade, is it possible for the knicks to do a sign and trade give Fournier and hunt and what ever vet is still available to make the salary match and not touch the cap space then use that cap space for another big name free agent? I really like if they can get LaVine or say Beal. I think being able to just sign Brunson wont be enough for them to reach the 6th seed at least.
That is the perfect scenario for the Knicks. We can fix the logjam on the wing, and open playing time for Reddish and Grimes. This of course is all dependent on Brunson forcing his way to NY.
I’m surprised so many are down on Brunson even for the money. Pretty sure a 100M contract would barely get him into the top half of the starting PG salary league wide.
Knicks could clear out Burks and sign Brunson and come out of this offseason with the same team plus Brunson and a healthy drose, as well as 4 first round picks additional to our own. While Brunson isn’t some major difference maker, the Knicks top issue last season was 4th quarter game management, which Brunson will absolutely improve. I don’t think anyone can make an argument against that.
If the Knicks solve their PG issue once and for all, plus added 3 additional first round picks, isn’t that better than the opportunity to draft Griffin, Duren, etc? I understand best case scenario was Ivey, but Knicks just couldn’t mortgage the entire future on him. Don’t we want a better team next year with the flexibility of 4 1st round picks plus our own going forward ?
With all the confusing draft moves the knicks made to get more protected 1st rounders and cap space, it seems very anticlimactic if the only major move the FO makes is to sign Brunson. Its just an uninspiring offseason work, maybe if that comes with the possibility if the young core having significant minutes it still wont move the needle forward.
Is there a deal out there worth trading Randle plus 4 1st rounders for a big name? Siakam or OG?
Jimbo5 wrote:With all the confusing draft moves the knicks made to get more protected 1st rounders and cap space, it seems very anticlimactic if the only major move the FO makes is to sign Brunson. Its just an uninspiring offseason work, maybe if that comes with the possibility if the young core having significant minutes it still wont move the needle forward.Is there a deal out there worth trading Randle plus 4 1st rounders for a big name? Siakam or OG?
Big name in that case might be Dejounte Murry. I know he was an allstar last year but I don’t see how much better he is than Brunson. Getting Brunson for just money seems like a better option than trading all of our picks right now for a Siakam or OG level player.
When you really think about it the draft night moves weren’t confusing. They didn’t love any player at 11 so they flipped in along with Kemba for 3 future firsts and clearing out about 15M in the process.
foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
BRIGGS wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
You like trading pick # 11 for picks likely to be in the 20s or convey to 2nd rounders? I’m scared when I see the spurs take 3 first rounders Memphis pike drives into rd 1 Oklahoma steals our pick. Even gs picked twice. They had different opinions than u. Pick 11 is pretty good.
There were no great prospects available at 11. Next year is the double draft if we have multiple first round picks which is very likely that’s huge
Knixkik wrote:Philc1 wrote:Panos wrote:fishmike wrote:phuck Brunson... we spend last year's max cap space and this year's lottery pick to eventually sign Jalen Phucking Brunson. Absolute trash.
+1.
Why is Brunson some kind of prize that gives this org a pass?
Because the other option was draft another mediocre wing prospect at 11 and we are already overloaded with that
And still no pg
Pretty much. Once Davis was gone I was out on most of these guys. Even if you trade the vets, a guy you don’t love at 11 isn’t playing over Barrett, reddish, grimes and Quickley. People complain about all these guys not playing like there’s a million minutes a game. What’s the point ? If there’s no franchise player available and no holes to plug where a good prospect is avail.
Plus the guys people here were salivating over like Dyson Daniels were already off the board
So we draft an average wing prospect at 11 to do what? Sit behind and watch RJ, Grimes, Fournier, Cam?
SergioNYK wrote:I like Brunson and have no issues giving him $25M. He's just 25 years old and keeps getting better. I just do not see him leaving Dallas. We're gonna have to settle for our plan C or D - whoever that is.
Tyus Jones. Who is definitely leaving Memphis
Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
Yes. Brunson is a nice player but not a $25M per year player. On offense he does everything well well but not spectacularly. He is also not a guard with superior skills to break down a D with penetration. Brunson might be a liability on D especially against taller faster guards. He will make the Knicks better but not bring them near the top in the east.
foosballnick wrote:Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
Yes. Brunson is a nice player but not a $25M per year player. On offense he does everything well well but not spectacularly. He is also not a guard with superior skills to break down a D with penetration. Brunson might be a liability on D especially against taller faster guards. He will make the Knicks better but not bring them near the top in the east.
Brunson is not the twitch fast with blazing speed but he gets to the mid range where he is near elite shooting from that distance. Like better than DeMarr and just under CP3. And he’s a passer who doesn’t turn ball over.
He is the anti Westbrook.
foosballnick wrote:Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
Yes. Brunson is a nice player but not a $25M per year player. On offense he does everything well well but not spectacularly. He is also not a guard with superior skills to break down a D with penetration. Brunson might be a liability on D especially against taller faster guards. He will make the Knicks better but not bring them near the top in the east.
You don’t get stars for 25mil. You get a player better than anyone we could have drafted. He need only play to the contract and if IQ becomes all we hope then we can trade him.
Or trade IQ for high value. If you saw the playoffs you saw this kid HELP carry the team. He is not luka. He would be here to elevate Rj and Randle.
foosballnick wrote:Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
Yes. Brunson is a nice player but not a $25M per year player. On offense he does everything well well but not spectacularly. He is also not a guard with superior skills to break down a D with penetration. Brunson might be a liability on D especially against taller faster guards. He will make the Knicks better but not bring them near the top in the east.
He’s a very good player and exactly what we need. I’m not going to deep dive into capology vortex— there’s dumb starphucing and then there’s the exact opposite inept philosophy of never doing anything because of over analyzing sabermetrics nonsense
Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
Yes. Brunson is a nice player but not a $25M per year player. On offense he does everything well well but not spectacularly. He is also not a guard with superior skills to break down a D with penetration. Brunson might be a liability on D especially against taller faster guards. He will make the Knicks better but not bring them near the top in the east.
You don’t get stars for 25mil. You get a player better than anyone we could have drafted. He need only play to the contract and if IQ becomes all we hope then we can trade him.
Or trade IQ for high value. If you saw the playoffs you saw this kid HELP carry the team. He is not luka. He would be here to elevate Rj and Randle.
Dinwiddie is getting $20 mil next season. Brunson isn’t $5 million better?
blkexec wrote:
Brunson might not move the needle much but the possibility exists.IMO he makes the Knicks better.
It’s not just about what Brunson does regarding his stats, but I believe having an unselfish PG who’s also skilled enough to get his own, can unleash the potential in certain players. Him and IQ gives us a solid PG rotation for both starters and second unit. But I’m hoping his impact will also be measured by the teams success. Similar to my favorite sleeper on this team in McBride. Certain guys, by their energy and effort in McBride or unselfish floor general with offensive skills in Brunson. These guys elevate the play in teammates around them. And Mitch / Sims now have a strong PG rotation of lobs coming. Mitch might take a step forward adding a young competent PG. What about adding Brunson will reduce the PG play of Randle. What if that helps Randle and RJ play more off the ball, which reduces team TOs. That’s a plus and the impact Brunson can potentially have.
I'm with you on everything you said. If you can't get an MVP then fit is the next best way to go. I think he makes us solid. I've slowly come around to this view. Also, Jalen is a winner, he's got some heart.
Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Philc1 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Brunson is meh. But I'll continue to reserve judgement on this until the moves are actually made. I wasn't that enamored with this draft, so I liked the idea of moving the 11 for future first rounders. The FO did F-up and waaaay overpay to move Kemba's salary though (one more year at eight mil).
Did you watch the playoffs? At all?
Yes. Brunson is a nice player but not a $25M per year player. On offense he does everything well well but not spectacularly. He is also not a guard with superior skills to break down a D with penetration. Brunson might be a liability on D especially against taller faster guards. He will make the Knicks better but not bring them near the top in the east.
He’s a very good player and exactly what we need. I’m not going to deep dive into capology vortex— there’s dumb starphucing and then there’s the exact opposite inept philosophy of never doing anything because of over analyzing sabermetrics nonsense
The planets are aligned. I agree with Philc.
End of days.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Brunson is a low ceiling, high floor, stupidly overpriced option that probably gets us back to 45 wins which is prolly exactly what MSG wants.
I am not juiced about Brunson but I'm also not that mad. For me, he is a stepping stone and not one that needs to be an end all.
Brunson play without Doncic during regular season:
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-b...Jalen Brunson averaged 20.4 points, 7.5 assists and 3.9 rebounds in 17 games without Luka Doncic this season.
Brunson also seems to be playoff capable, he steps up in the NBA, he steps up in college in pressure situations. In his 3 games without Doncic against Utah (Donovan, Gobert), Mavs are 2-1 with Brunson being a beast.
Brunson is the anti-Kyrie. He is more a team guy who is going to make those around him better and not be the flashiest, stat padder or focal point. And that's a need for the Knicks with Randle/RJ.
.. I am not juiced about Brunson, I feel exactly same though Brunson is most talented BRUNSON we seen in NBA yet.
However folks need to keep in mind, MAVs with Dončić superstar it's easy to see development pressures is off Brunson.
SO ques. is what happens when Brunson is brought to another team as a #1 ?allstar or pending superstar? Not sure NY is right mix for Brunson yet.
Think Brunson representatives are intriqued with $$$ Wallet Knicks will spend.
You really want a player ? whom going to get Bigtime $payday cause love of rich NBA contract ?in N.Y.
OR do you want a NBA player whom really wants to be in NY to win $$$ regardless of money
Brunson needs to elevate the team so elite status. Brunson can be like rest of NBA'ers when heat is on in NY
I'm not sure he's type of player whom can deal with it for success in Knick country
