tried to make a deal for Ivey. Obviously Sac did not bite and preferred Murray, and Detroit for the moment will go super young.
But what the night ended was Detroit got Duran and that might satisfy their desire to go for Mitch and perhaps Ayton.
Also Detroit maybe not be a player for brunson if that was really a thing.
More important for the night Knicks said they like IQ, Obi, grimes and Mcbride more than anything on the board.
Im not saying none get traded but that was a statement perhaps the faithful in their anger that they don’t have a “shiny new toy” to play with christmas day.
It will give aggravation that every pick after 11 who is good will be “knicks blew it”.
Brunson is not a star and won’t be paid like one. HE’ll be there to lift up RJ, Randle and mitch if he he stays.
He is young and proven as a very good 3rd option type player.
Any guard last night better than IQ? We’ll know in a few years but last night the answer was no.
Duran is 19. How long before he is ready? 2-3 years?
Did we pave room Rokas to come this year or next? Did FO also create money to bring him here? he might have been offered in a deal, and still might but not last night.
dismissing the bpa at 11 as a “shiny new toy” sound like denial to me
Marv wrote:dismissing the bpa at 11 as a “shiny new toy” sound like denial to me
Could be. Im looking for reasons and perhaps tilt to not getting mad when I can’t see the end result.
If Brunson is landed its about how his chemistry and game fits and could elevate the others. I don’t view him as a star or the starhuch. But he won’t come cheap.
For that matter, there is still much to do.
We don’t know the plan so we don’t know what was possible last night, and contingents. Ivey was always a long shot. Fans get caught in the frenzy. Its fun.
It might have been a weak draft, but you do not pi$$ away a lottery pick for cap space unless you are virtually certain to add a legit All-Star to your core.i do not think Brunson qualifies. Unless we add someone like Jamal, DeJounte, Donovan or Kyrie, I would have to think that Rose is clueless. And it simply cannot be that one of the leagues most powerful agents would be clueless about basketball.
I dont think outside drafting ok the last couple of years, definitely not including this year's draft, this FO hasnt done much to advance the knicks rebuild. Yes the got some good young players that the coach they hired refused to give quality minutes to.This FO holds on to the fantasy of luring big free agent to the garden without any success. On the trade front they showed us extreem patience to the point where no big trades have ever been completed. In 3 years, this FO has never made any franchise altering move. I think im ok with what happened at the draft if they think no player available is worth paying for the cap space, but the fans are left hanging and frustrated. We dont know what will happen, the free agency game hasn't been good to the knicks as well.
Nalod wrote:Marv wrote:dismissing the bpa at 11 as a “shiny new toy” sound like denial to me
Could be. Im looking for reasons and perhaps tilt to not getting mad when I can’t see the end result.
If Brunson is landed its about how his chemistry and game fits and could elevate the others. I don’t view him as a star or the starhuch. But he won’t come cheap.
For that matter, there is still much to do.
We don’t know the plan so we don’t know what was possible last night, and contingents. Ivey was always a long shot. Fans get caught in the frenzy. Its fun.
lol you're cracking jokes about people being mad about the draft, like it's inevitable and you are in an ass licking mode of denial
this front office sucks. this was TERRIBLE. and unlike when Isiah did something like draft fucking Renaldo Balkman, at least he made himself available to the fucking media
unless they are colluding, and risking all those shitty picks, Leon Rose and his mute band of morons should get fired
i have liked their drafts
mixed bag on FAs and trades, with the irony being that several were lauded when they were made only to backfire to some degree
I DO NOT agree with this at all. TT doesn't want nor will play young players. This just shows how much influence he has .... yet when he was forced to play the young players at year end due to injury, we consistently won or competed against top teams .. Brunson is NOT A STAR. We gave up Duren plus 4 second rounds picks SO FAR, we will have to OVERPAY HIM just to force Dallas to trade him. They we get stuck with a below average team with an overpaid PG on a long term contract that we can't trade.
My only hope now is that with the disaster of moves we made, we'll be a bottom 3 team next year. Rose gets fired, TT gets fired. We start the rebuild over. Seems every team worse that us has improved.
steve kerr didn't play his young guys much either and they were lottery
same with the guy in CHarlotte where Bouknight barely took off his sweats
If we are so concerned about cap space then why not just keep Duren and let Mitch walk??
Giving up a high pick just to shed a mistake we made that was on a 9 million expiring contract does not make much sense.
TLover wrote:If we are so concerned about cap space then why not just keep Duren and let Mitch walk??
Giving up a high pick just to shed a mistake we made that was on a 9 million expiring contract does not make much sense.
Mitch has a tiny cap hold. Less than Duren. If cap space is the goal than keeping Mitch’s cap hold is the best option. They can keep their starting center at 2 million (while coming to a verbal agreement ) until all of their other moves are made.
Marv wrote:dismissing the bpa at 11 as a “shiny new toy” sound like denial to me
Dismissing the history we have of drafting pieces of shit at 8 thinking they were shiny new toys sounds worse to me
Time will tell but I felt coming in that Murray, Sochan and Ivey were the best in this class. Thought Sochan was the one the Knicks had the best chance of getting. Once he was gone, I lost interest.
Drafting a player just "because" is dumb. The Knicks didn't feel there was anyone worth while so they moved the goal post. I'm not mad at that and I think it's a good move. Fans miss out on the excitement on seeing a new player develop but this was a smart business move.
What if these moves allowed the Knicks to keep Mitch and sign Brunson? This FO seems to make moves that helps them now and in the future. That’s what this draft felt like, similar to last years draft. They usually make moves for short and long term strategies that we can not see right now.
Trust me I’m the first person to open the door for Thibs and Leon during their exit. But I can also play devils advocate and let’s just hope their strategy doesn’t back fire. Let’s hope adding Brunson dad was part of the cheat code their needed. Now they should have some insight into what Brunson wants financially. The difference can be made up with agreements outside of his contract.
But I also agree that Thibs is showing some influence as well. Some can argue until they turn blue but thibs has already told u guys he’s not playing rooks or yoots over vets unless they are injured. I think IQ is no longer a rookie and when do we move him out of the yoot category. I believe thibs has his favorite young players like IQ and grimes who should get significant mins. But only time will tell. I still have hope.
My main concern is Leon was hired for his connections not his GM experience which was zero. I’m not seeing the benefit in having a GM with no experience and no results from his perceived networks or respect around the league. He’s not getting any special favors. So was it a mistake bringing him in? Would this team be better off with an experienced GM that doesn’t have perceived clout or networks. But is a competent GM? I hate to say it but hindsight is 2020 and if we don’t get Brunson why did we higher this new FO?
Weak draft. Griffin can shoot but is just a catch and shoot guy and already has an injury history. Duren is redundant with Mitch, Noel and Sims already here. We need to sign a pg and now can plus we have future draft picks
front office hasnt made a single impressive move yet. They have at best shown good judgement drafting some role solid role players and trading back to pick up pieces but its year 3 and there isnt any more hope on the roster than there was when they took over.
3 drafts with 2 lottery picks and almost $60mm in cap space and the big hope is we sign Brunson who gets us back to 45 wins and a few playoff games.
Rose is a more clever Isiah at this point. Rose is no talk all action... except there's no results
Philc1 wrote:Weak draft. Griffin can shoot but is just a catch and shoot guy and already has an injury history. Duren is redundant with Mitch, Noel and Sims already here. We need to sign a pg and now can plus we have future draft picks
trading to 2023 would have been smart. All we was waste a pick to undo last year's mistake(s)
fishmike wrote:Philc1 wrote:Weak draft. Griffin can shoot but is just a catch and shoot guy and already has an injury history. Duren is redundant with Mitch, Noel and Sims already here. We need to sign a pg and now can plus we have future draft picks
trading to 2023 would have been smart. All we was waste a pick to undo last year's mistake(s)
what pick was wasted? Unless i'm missing something we used our Denver 2023 pick but got back a Milwaukee 2025 pick -- more of a pick swap. Plus were we really going to want 3 or 4 first rounders next year?
Marv wrote:dismissing the bpa at 11 as a “shiny new toy” sound like denial to me
Ahem. Bitterness, not denial.
Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Philc1 wrote:Weak draft. Griffin can shoot but is just a catch and shoot guy and already has an injury history. Duren is redundant with Mitch, Noel and Sims already here. We need to sign a pg and now can plus we have future draft picks
trading to 2023 would have been smart. All we was waste a pick to undo last year's mistake(s)
what pick was wasted? Unless i'm missing something we used our Denver 2023 pick but got back a Milwaukee 2025 pick -- more of a pick swap. Plus were we really going to want 3 or 4 first rounders next year?
So we traded a present #11 for a future Milwaukee pick 2 years out that will likely be at the back end of the draft. Do you understand the concept of present day value of money, same applies to draft picks. In the NFL a 2nd round pick this year is worth a first rounder next year, as present value is greater than future years.
Drafting now, you get something tangible and development of a player for a year.
Did you read the protections on those other picks, we are NOT getting those picks next year, so again even if we do, we trade a near top 10 pick THIS YEAR (more value than future years if exactly equal) for a mid pick in Next Years draft....which will NEVER happen.
Nalod wrote:Marv wrote:dismissing the bpa at 11 as a “shiny new toy” sound like denial to me
Could be. Im looking for reasons and perhaps tilt to not getting mad when I can’t see the end result.
If Brunson is landed its about how his chemistry and game fits and could elevate the others. I don’t view him as a star or the starhuch. But he won’t come cheap.
For that matter, there is still much to do.
We don’t know the plan so we don’t know what was possible last night, and contingents. Ivey was always a long shot. Fans get caught in the frenzy. Its fun.
The disappointment, for me, is that it seemed the strategy was to continue to build through the draft and add inexpensive pieces in FA to compete. Feel we were doing a good job of that. Pivoting should only have come with the possibility of a true game changer. I watched a lot of Dallas games this year and Brunson is not that. Hopefully the FO is right and these shinny pieces were not very good. Thought a few available had upside and could be solid contributors. But I also though DSJR was going to be an All Star.
You are right though. Can't judge the offseason until it has been completed. FA is a big part of it. There is a possibility that these assets gained last night will be used in FA or to make a more appealing trade. We shall see. Not gonna lie though, last years bad season now only seems like a waste. Would have felt a bit better with a decent young addition.
