Mavs would play Wood at Center with Randle at the 4. The Knicks then use that cap space on other players and give Obi full rein of the 4 spot.
The biggest factor winning over my Brunson support is fucking with Dallas.
As much as I'm ready to move on from Julius, I'd feel a little sick gifting him to the Mavs.
TLover wrote:Mavs would play Wood at Center with Randle at the 4. The Knicks then use that cap space on other players and give Obi full rein of the 4 spot.
Technically you can't because of the base year compensation of Brunson and how S&T's work.
Now, the salary cap is a little fluid and so is our complete understanding of what the first year of Brunson contract would be.
Also, the TPE created on the Dallas side of things IF Brunson is S&T'ed into cap space would be half of his salary.
It behooves the Knicks to - not help? screw over? - Dallas as much as they can to help out the 2023 Dallas pick that goes to the Knicks is better than a late, later first.
This is the best explainer:
BigDaddyG wrote:From Mavs Money all:
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2022/6/27/...
:format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23654765/Screen_Shot_2022_06_27_at_11.27.36_PM.png)
guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.
Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Yup, Knicks needs Randle in beast mode... so he has higher trade value 
fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Agree, especially once you add the team-chaperoned trip to Dallas. They were trying to get Randle on board early.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Yup, Knicks needs Randle in beast mode... so he has higher trade value
this is not wrong... what makes me REALLY optimistic is I think Brunson/Randle are good players and literally here to be replaced.
The BEST scenario is where they are replaced by players already on the roster. The dream is in 2 years Obi/McBride can no longer be contained but Randle/Brunson are key cogs on a winning team and have good values and net us assets moving forward while we grow within. That my 420 moment for ya 
fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Please explain how Brunson is a great fit with Randle? This is something I am struggling with. Randle parks at the top of the box regularly. He doesn't really move without the ball and he isn't that mobile, he is more stocky and strong than runny-jumpy like Toppin. You move Randle off the box and substitute Toppin who tends to start from the corner and is always looking to move for a lob pass and you have so much more room for Brunson and/or Barrett to operate.
EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Please explain how Brunson is a great fit with Randle? This is something I am struggling with. Randle parks at the top of the box regularly. He doesn't really move without the ball and he isn't that mobile, he is more stocky and strong than runny-jumpy like Toppin. You move Randle off the box and substitute Toppin who tends to start from the corner and is always looking to move for a lob pass and you have so much more room for Brunson and/or Barrett to operate.
Brunson was effective playing with KP who is the taller less mobile stick version of Randle
martin wrote:TLover wrote:Mavs would play Wood at Center with Randle at the 4. The Knicks then use that cap space on other players and give Obi full rein of the 4 spot.
Technically you can't because of the base year compensation of Brunson and how S&T's work.
Now, the salary cap is a little fluid and so is our complete understanding of what the first year of Brunson contract would be.
Also, the TPE created on the Dallas side of things IF Brunson is S&T'ed into cap space would be half of his salary.
It behooves the Knicks to - not help? screw over? - Dallas as much as they can to help out the 2023 Dallas pick that goes to the Knicks is better than a late, later first.
This is the best explainer:
BigDaddyG wrote:From Mavs Money all:
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2022/6/27/...
Rose works. Not included in this chart. If they are increasing the offer to Brunson to make Fournier work in a S&T, I think I will swallow my pride on the contract valuation.
Philc1 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Please explain how Brunson is a great fit with Randle? This is something I am struggling with. Randle parks at the top of the box regularly. He doesn't really move without the ball and he isn't that mobile, he is more stocky and strong than runny-jumpy like Toppin. You move Randle off the box and substitute Toppin who tends to start from the corner and is always looking to move for a lob pass and you have so much more room for Brunson and/or Barrett to operate.
Brunson was effective playing with KP who is the taller less mobile stick version of Randle
That turned out terrible for KP. That doesn't explain how they work. It just explains another non-working situation.
Only way is if you get a 3rd team to take on additional salary. Pacers, Spurs, Magic, and Detroit are only teams I think.
Knicks: Brunson and Wood
Mavs: Randle Fournier
Det: Bertans plus 1st
Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.
Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
EwingsGlass wrote:Philc1 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:fishmike wrote:guys, not only is Randle not going anywhere, but part of the Brunson appeal to this FO is Jalen is a great fit with Jules.Thibs is gonna ride these two. Brunson takes the ball out of Randle's hands early in possessions. I honestly expect Brunson's biggest impact here will be playing a role in getting Randle straight.
Please explain how Brunson is a great fit with Randle? This is something I am struggling with. Randle parks at the top of the box regularly. He doesn't really move without the ball and he isn't that mobile, he is more stocky and strong than runny-jumpy like Toppin. You move Randle off the box and substitute Toppin who tends to start from the corner and is always looking to move for a lob pass and you have so much more room for Brunson and/or Barrett to operate.
Brunson was effective playing with KP who is the taller less mobile stick version of Randle
That turned out terrible for KP. That doesn't explain how they work. It just explains another non-working situation.
It didn’t work for KP because he’s an immobile scarecrow with bad knees.
GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
You think his issues are about him being jealous about his stature on the court or his lack of execution?
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
I didnt like Randle's play (or attitude) last season. Guessing you're in the same camp. You're under the mistaken impression that my suggestion is to keep Randle happy. Its mostly about how Randle is wired, when he's at his most effective. His contract year, Randle was playing a lot of point forward, He pushed the tempo, got his teammates involved, racked up some crazy assist numbers some games.
Last season, his conditioning wasnt there, he couldnt push the tempo. Believe he knew he wasnt the same player. Wasnt team or fan friendly.
If Randle does stay, I want to see him play like "contract year Randle". Sharing playmaking duties with Brunson, if he's a Knick. Save some wear and tear on Brunson as well. The idea is to see the best version of Randle's game on the court. That involves Randle sharing playmaking duties. Wont work if he comes back in the same shape as last season.
GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
I didnt like Randle's play (or attitude) last season. Guessing you're in the same camp. You're under the mistaken impression that my suggestion is to keep Randle happy. Its mostly about how Randle is wired, when he's at his most effective. His contract year, Randle was playing a lot of point forward, He pushed the tempo, got his teammates involved, racked up some crazy assist numbers some games.
Last season, his conditioning wasnt there, he couldnt push the tempo. Believe he knew he wasnt the same player. Wasnt team or fan friendly.
If Randle does stay, I want to see him play like "contract year Randle". Sharing playmaking duties with Brunson, if he's a Knick. Save some wear and tear on Brunson as well. The idea is to see the best version of Randle's game on the court. That involves Randle sharing playmaking duties. Wont work if he comes back in the same shape as last season.
idk what happened last year. Thibs is def a players coach and going to let guys work things out and there's a lot of reasons to have given Randle a long leash last year. This year there are much fewer. Rose/Thibs are not going to hinge their run here on Julius Randle. They are right to try and get him right IMO.. but there's an expiration date on that. I can promise you
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
I didnt like Randle's play (or attitude) last season. Guessing you're in the same camp. You're under the mistaken impression that my suggestion is to keep Randle happy. Its mostly about how Randle is wired, when he's at his most effective. His contract year, Randle was playing a lot of point forward, He pushed the tempo, got his teammates involved, racked up some crazy assist numbers some games.
Last season, his conditioning wasnt there, he couldnt push the tempo. Believe he knew he wasnt the same player. Wasnt team or fan friendly.
If Randle does stay, I want to see him play like "contract year Randle". Sharing playmaking duties with Brunson, if he's a Knick. Save some wear and tear on Brunson as well. The idea is to see the best version of Randle's game on the court. That involves Randle sharing playmaking duties. Wont work if he comes back in the same shape as last season.
idk what happened last year. Thibs is def a players coach and going to let guys work things out and there's a lot of reasons to have given Randle a long leash last year. This year there are much fewer. Rose/Thibs are not going to hinge their run here on Julius Randle. They are right to try and get him right IMO.. but there's an expiration date on that. I can promise you
I remember reading about all the work Randle put in the offseason to get into the kind of shape that allowed him to play at the clip he was able to his contract year. Between Covid, family responsibilities, and a season of playing at a very high level. Randle appeared from a distance, like he burnt out.
Also guessing that the FO knows that it would be more expensive to go out and find another player to put up the numbers. (or close) Randle put up his contract year. Not having to trade Randle would free up cap room to address other needs.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
I didnt like Randle's play (or attitude) last season. Guessing you're in the same camp. You're under the mistaken impression that my suggestion is to keep Randle happy. Its mostly about how Randle is wired, when he's at his most effective. His contract year, Randle was playing a lot of point forward, He pushed the tempo, got his teammates involved, racked up some crazy assist numbers some games.
Last season, his conditioning wasnt there, he couldnt push the tempo. Believe he knew he wasnt the same player. Wasnt team or fan friendly.
If Randle does stay, I want to see him play like "contract year Randle". Sharing playmaking duties with Brunson, if he's a Knick. Save some wear and tear on Brunson as well. The idea is to see the best version of Randle's game on the court. That involves Randle sharing playmaking duties. Wont work if he comes back in the same shape as last season.
idk what happened last year. Thibs is def a players coach and going to let guys work things out and there's a lot of reasons to have given Randle a long leash last year. This year there are much fewer. Rose/Thibs are not going to hinge their run here on Julius Randle. They are right to try and get him right IMO.. but there's an expiration date on that. I can promise you
I remember reading about all the work Randle put in the offseason to get into the kind of shape that allowed him to play at the clip he was able to his contract year. Between Covid, family responsibilities, and a season of playing at a very high level. Randle appeared from a distance, like he burnt out.
Also guessing that the FO knows that it would be more expensive to go out and find another player to put up the numbers. (or close) Randle put up his contract year. Not having to trade Randle would free up cap room to address other needs.
To me, the major change I saw was that the 18 foot fadeway stopped dropping and it went from being a surprisingly effective shot to a very inefficient shot. At the same time, his 3 point percentage dropped from a surprising 40% to 33%. If he gets that 3 back up to 37+% and stops taking fadeaway 18 footer, he is an all star again. I believe this.
EwingsGlass wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Randle was at his best, his contract year. The best part of his game was his taking the lead in pushing the tempo. Randle was sprinting up the court early that season until the rest of the squad started to keep up with him. He was playing fast and making quick decisions.Flash forward to last season. Randle practically walked up the court, with the ball. The energy, the uptempo play was mostly gone.
Which Randle will we see next season? Will he be in good enough shape to push the tempo, look like he did his contract year? Somewhere in between? Thats going to play a large part in wether or not Randle fits with Brunson.
Id like to see Randle being allowed to grab a board and lead the break, like he did before. Not just hand it off to Brunson. Believe it will help keep him more engaged in the offense. Dont want him just going to a spot and waiting for the ball like Melo. Want to see Randle mix it up again.
IF we do get an upgrade at pg Randle’s just gonna have to suck it up and become more of a catch and shoot PF similar to what Chris Webber was with Mike Bibby.
If he doesn’t like it. He will lose minutes to Obi and eventually just sulk his way into a contract buyout or stretch provision in a year or two. No one is touching that contract in a trade it’s radioactive
I didnt like Randle's play (or attitude) last season. Guessing you're in the same camp. You're under the mistaken impression that my suggestion is to keep Randle happy. Its mostly about how Randle is wired, when he's at his most effective. His contract year, Randle was playing a lot of point forward, He pushed the tempo, got his teammates involved, racked up some crazy assist numbers some games.
Last season, his conditioning wasnt there, he couldnt push the tempo. Believe he knew he wasnt the same player. Wasnt team or fan friendly.
If Randle does stay, I want to see him play like "contract year Randle". Sharing playmaking duties with Brunson, if he's a Knick. Save some wear and tear on Brunson as well. The idea is to see the best version of Randle's game on the court. That involves Randle sharing playmaking duties. Wont work if he comes back in the same shape as last season.
idk what happened last year. Thibs is def a players coach and going to let guys work things out and there's a lot of reasons to have given Randle a long leash last year. This year there are much fewer. Rose/Thibs are not going to hinge their run here on Julius Randle. They are right to try and get him right IMO.. but there's an expiration date on that. I can promise you
I remember reading about all the work Randle put in the offseason to get into the kind of shape that allowed him to play at the clip he was able to his contract year. Between Covid, family responsibilities, and a season of playing at a very high level. Randle appeared from a distance, like he burnt out.
Also guessing that the FO knows that it would be more expensive to go out and find another player to put up the numbers. (or close) Randle put up his contract year. Not having to trade Randle would free up cap room to address other needs.
To me, the major change I saw was that the 18 foot fadeway stopped dropping and it went from being a surprisingly effective shot to a very inefficient shot. At the same time, his 3 point percentage dropped from a surprising 40% to 33%. If he gets that 3 back up to 37+% and stops taking fadeaway 18 footer, he is an all star again. I believe this.
I hope Randle gets his game back to where it was. Randle has the offseason to figure out what went wrong, and make the necessary adjustments. Having Randle playing like an all-star in the playoffs, with Brunson, could get us past the first round. If RJ is playing like an All-star as well. Which I believe is possible.
