Knicks · Knicks in on Mitchell trade (page 32)

GustavBahler @ 7/30/2022 11:53 AM
Surprised that Randle's conditioning and league leading minutes would be dismissed as a factor in his performance so easily. You're right, the effort level wasnt the same. The game is easier when you're in peak condition.

Clean wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.

Game is a bit easier with no fans in the stands looking over your shoulder.

Was more than that, Randle worked his butt off in the offseason, came back in the best shape of his career.

That played more of a role in his ability to push the tempo, than anything else. He was clearly not in the same shape the next season. Which is why he spent a lot of time walking the ball upcourt last season.


If Randle comes back in better shape, Thibs doesnt give Randle league leading minutes again. We should be OK

Being in top shape definitely helps. BUT, imo, comes down to 3pt shooting. Think for many players like Randle, if you can shoot close to 40% from three, you are an All Star.
Feel the only difference from last year was that he was not as good from three. We of course notice the turnovers and issues with fans more.

Hard disagree here. In the middle of last season a clip of Randle from his All NBA season went viral on Knicks twitter. The clip was him sprinting back to get on D after making a FT because I think AD was cherry picking. It went viral for just how much of a contrast it was to the current season at the time. Randle's effort level was trash. I think the reason why he lost a ton of weight this offseason is to help increase his effort level next year.

martin @ 7/30/2022 2:58 PM
Very nice thread

blkexec @ 7/30/2022 9:37 PM
martin wrote:Very nice thread

Yes….Leon Rose patient game is winning. Ainge almost has to take Knicks offer before the season starts. He already let the cat out the bag with his high asking price. Knicks don’t have to do anything but play the long game and wait. Eventually ainge will break. And if he doesn’t, then:

Brunson has a chance to show his value. RJ will be motivated to show his max value. Randle will be motivated to show he still has that All Star level game in him. Last season was a fluke. Plus he gets to pick his destination the better he plays. Grimes on the rise. IQ and Obi on the rise. Cam is hungry to show his value. And you already know deuce will eat off the G League runs to show his value while waiting for rose to go down.

ekstarks94 @ 7/30/2022 10:16 PM
blkexec wrote:
martin wrote:Very nice thread

Yes….Leon Rose patient game is winning. Ainge almost has to take Knicks offer before the season starts. He already let the cat out the bag with his high asking price. Knicks don’t have to do anything but play the long game and wait. Eventually ainge will break. And if he doesn’t, then:

Brunson has a chance to show his value. RJ will be motivated to show his max value. Randle will be motivated to show he still has that All Star level game in him. Last season was a fluke. Plus he gets to pick his destination the better he plays. Grimes on the rise. IQ and Obi on the rise. Cam is hungry to show his value. And you already know deuce will eat off the G League runs to show his value while waiting for rose to go down.


Agree…..folks forget that this was Leon’s job in terms negotiating..in that he ran CAA you have think his skills at the table are top notch….

Personally I think Ainge is caught up in the myth of Ainge fleecing teams…his two home runs 1)the KG trade was gifted. 2) The Brooklyn trade was a desperate team. This is different situation. As of now our worse offer in Ainge eyes is actually the best of the field. Ainge is using media leaks like from Mannix and others with…” the Knicks not close” …..Utah talking to Charlotte and Wizards…trying to create leverage.

My question is does Ainge believe the myth of Ainge so much that he will take Donovan into the season and if he does not get an offer he likes at the deadline does he take him into the draft and use him as a chip with Minnesota picks to get Wenbeyma or the leftovers?

gradyandrew @ 7/30/2022 10:57 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:My question is does Ainge believe the myth of Ainge so much that he will take Donovan into the season and if he does not get an offer he likes at the deadline does he take him into the draft and use him as a chip with Minnesota picks to get Wenbeyma or the leftovers?

I think Danny made a tactical error by not getting this trade done before the draft. I think he approached the Knicks with a Barrett, Robinson and 8 draft picks trade and Leon told him to get lost. Ewingsglasses had some good points about how the desire to get Brunson paid might have been a contributing factor.

I think Ainge has until a week before training camp opens to accept the best offer for DM.

Philc1 @ 7/31/2022 10:44 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.

Game is a bit easier with no fans in the stands looking over your shoulder.

It’s not a coincidence Randle’s best year as a pro ever was when the arenas were all empty. And then once they started letting fans back in during the playoffs his game fell apart

Philc1 @ 7/31/2022 10:46 AM
gradyandrew wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:My question is does Ainge believe the myth of Ainge so much that he will take Donovan into the season and if he does not get an offer he likes at the deadline does he take him into the draft and use him as a chip with Minnesota picks to get Wenbeyma or the leftovers?

I think Danny made a tactical error by not getting this trade done before the draft. I think he approached the Knicks with a Barrett, Robinson and 8 draft picks trade and Leon told him to get lost. Ewingsglasses had some good points about how the desire to get Brunson paid might have been a contributing factor.

I think Ainge has until a week before training camp opens to accept the best offer for DM.

Ainge has Mitchell locked into a long term deal and there is not a no trade clause. He can trade Mitchell whenever he wants. It’s possible he waits until next February deadline for the best offer


By then we will be playing well with the roster we have now so why even do the trade?

Vmart @ 7/31/2022 10:59 AM
Philc1 wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:My question is does Ainge believe the myth of Ainge so much that he will take Donovan into the season and if he does not get an offer he likes at the deadline does he take him into the draft and use him as a chip with Minnesota picks to get Wenbeyma or the leftovers?

I think Danny made a tactical error by not getting this trade done before the draft. I think he approached the Knicks with a Barrett, Robinson and 8 draft picks trade and Leon told him to get lost. Ewingsglasses had some good points about how the desire to get Brunson paid might have been a contributing factor.

I think Ainge has until a week before training camp opens to accept the best offer for DM.

Ainge has Mitchell locked into a long term deal and there is not a no trade clause. He can trade Mitchell whenever he wants. It’s possible he waits until next February deadline for the best offer


By then we will be playing well with the roster we have now so why even do the trade?

Ainge isn’t stupid he wants to see the Knicks players play. There isn’t enough sample size to see if a deal makes sense right now. Truth be told you can put that on Thibs for pissing last year away and not playing the youth necessary time for development or increasing value.

Regardless I don’t see the need for DM he doesn’t meet a need.

Rookie @ 7/31/2022 11:16 AM
The Jazz need to give us 3 unprotected 1st rd picks if they want us to take Mitchell. That’s where I’d start negotiation 😁
Nalod @ 7/31/2022 4:27 PM
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.

Game is a bit easier with no fans in the stands looking over your shoulder.

It’s not a coincidence Randle’s best year as a pro ever was when the arenas were all empty. And then once they started letting fans back in during the playoffs his game fell apart

Right. Can’t just not get beat by a better team? Sure we finished ahead by a game but Atl head to head was clearly the better team. Randle was our best player that year and when the defense focused on shutting him down were not deep enough to counter. Was it the crowds? Mabye. Was it Payton and Drose were cooked? That too. That RJ was not broad enough to carry more? Add that. Mitch was out, Norlens was banged up. Capella was the best big on the floor.
Trae had his coming out party.
We all saw Randles salty side last year and he hung 20-10 stats on a 37 win team. one that had two new starters with one not able to continue (kemba) and EF who came on nice as the season progressed. The team had a brutal 6 week stretch were it fell. From that Rj emerged as the man, randle got banged up and the yoot was the best part of the year. Gotta blame someone right?

Philc1 @ 8/1/2022 8:39 AM
Nalod wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.

Game is a bit easier with no fans in the stands looking over your shoulder.

It’s not a coincidence Randle’s best year as a pro ever was when the arenas were all empty. And then once they started letting fans back in during the playoffs his game fell apart

Right. Can’t just not get beat by a better team? Sure we finished ahead by a game but Atl head to head was clearly the better team. Randle was our best player that year and when the defense focused on shutting him down were not deep enough to counter. Was it the crowds? Mabye. Was it Payton and Drose were cooked? That too. That RJ was not broad enough to carry more? Add that. Mitch was out, Norlens was banged up. Capella was the best big on the floor.
Trae had his coming out party.
We all saw Randles salty side last year and he hung 20-10 stats on a 37 win team. one that had two new starters with one not able to continue (kemba) and EF who came on nice as the season progressed. The team had a brutal 6 week stretch were it fell. From that Rj emerged as the man, randle got banged up and the yoot was the best part of the year. Gotta blame someone right?

Randle has made the playoffs as a pro once in his entire career and it was during the pandemic with no crowds in the stands. He came back to earth last season and was thumbs downing the crowds at MSG because he got his fee fees hurt. He went from 41% from 3 in 2020 to 30% last season


I think we are a playoff team next year with or without the guy. Doesn’t change the fact his contract sucks

Nalod @ 8/1/2022 9:10 AM
Philc1 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Im speaking of Randle's game from 2 seasons ago. He was more than just "dumping of the ball". He was definitely playing at a faster pace. Leading the break.

Game is a bit easier with no fans in the stands looking over your shoulder.

It’s not a coincidence Randle’s best year as a pro ever was when the arenas were all empty. And then once they started letting fans back in during the playoffs his game fell apart

Right. Can’t just not get beat by a better team? Sure we finished ahead by a game but Atl head to head was clearly the better team. Randle was our best player that year and when the defense focused on shutting him down were not deep enough to counter. Was it the crowds? Mabye. Was it Payton and Drose were cooked? That too. That RJ was not broad enough to carry more? Add that. Mitch was out, Norlens was banged up. Capella was the best big on the floor.
Trae had his coming out party.
We all saw Randles salty side last year and he hung 20-10 stats on a 37 win team. one that had two new starters with one not able to continue (kemba) and EF who came on nice as the season progressed. The team had a brutal 6 week stretch were it fell. From that Rj emerged as the man, randle got banged up and the yoot was the best part of the year. Gotta blame someone right?

Randle has made the playoffs as a pro once in his entire career and it was during the pandemic with no crowds in the stands. He came back to earth last season and was thumbs downing the crowds at MSG because he got his fee fees hurt. He went from 41% from 3 in 2020 to 30% last season


I think we are a playoff team next year with or without the guy. Doesn’t change the fact his contract sucks

Basketball is a team sport.
He was paid 21mil last year. 47th. Thats outside the top 10%. He had a bad season and still avg’d 20-10.
Look around the league besides the knicks and whats even written on these pages.
Look at his contrct, the inflation even one season past, the CBA, the ratings are up and projected money/cap, then consider his age, he is a durable player, and how he was coached last season. I agree last year was some bad looks and the team as a whole was very uneven. There is plenty of blame to go around.

that contract was seen as modest compared to what all NBA players can make. He was eligable for a max! Did not even sniff it. Did not refuse to sign and thus understood his position. I don’t know why he was fucked up last year.
Empty stands? Its a theory. Had a baby and maybe has personal familly problems? Maybe. We can go on and on.

Your simplistic one liners are very incomplete. Perhaps there is elements of truth but there are so many factors involved. Its like saying “Melo only advanced once in his career in the playoffs, what a loser”. Well, if you consider that those denver teams were beaten by better teams, then it makes sense. Does not dilute who and what he was. On knicks, despite his abilities other teams were better.
Same for Randle. If he was a more complete player earlier he would have had smoother path. But at the crossroads of hie rookie deal expiring Lakers cleared him out for cap space that was Lebron. Those laker teams he was on were a mess. The front office was a mess prior. Not saying that was the sole reason. It adds up.
You can tell us 100x you want him gone for no return. Thats your opinion, but at least contribute to the collective conversation and add to it. We all know he had a bug up his ass and had some bad looks. We all know he got booed and he finished the game strong and we beat boston. We all know he stormed off the court vs bulls with 5 games to go adn said “im done”, and it was not that he would ask for a trade, but his reinjured his quad and was done for the season.

that he could go back to lakers makes little sense as AD is the 4 there. Next season the FA situation is not great. The year after its ripe and the rumors are knicks would clear cap for that. Thats two season in the future. Two.
Lot of hoop to be played before then. If leon has a plan we won’t know it. Just speculate.

But, be real. Randle is like 50th highest paid one year removed from all NBA. He don’t have to get back to that to play up to his contract. Its easy to see this team is building up to something way different than even last year.
I can see Brunson and RJ priority options. If EF is still here, he gets open looks. Randle will face less doubles.
Now, add DM and that further makes it fun. Randle last year forced more shots. His empty arena shot selection had more open looks and less forced. I take Thibs to his word when he said he has to coach him better and put hiim in a better postion to succeed. Im rooting for that. Knicks success with our without him. For now, he is a knick.

martin @ 8/1/2022 2:53 PM
Nalod @ 8/1/2022 5:25 PM
All kinds of news about what Utah asked a few weeks back and Ainge is getting clowned for it. Funny stuff.
Ainge can ask all he wants. Leon can counter and they can break until labor day.
With Covid and delayed seaons, etc, execs.....and im talking coaches, and the many many front office types have not had a proper vacation since summer of 2019.
Nalod has not either.
but its not about Nalod. August seems like a quiet month under normal times. I doubt anything gets done. Ainge is fishing for a great deal. I can't imagine Leon and Co don't have their bottom line all written up as to how far they will go.
martin @ 8/2/2022 6:53 PM

martin @ 8/4/2022 8:08 AM
From the other side of things, THREAD:

HofstraBBall @ 8/4/2022 11:17 AM
martin wrote:From the other side of things, THREAD:

If this is true, I wonder what that offer was?

Hopefully, 4 Firsts, Obi, Deuce Cam, Rose.

What ever that "offer" was, that may be what the Jazz eventually accept.

Nalod @ 8/4/2022 11:28 AM
Lot of scant info. I read in last 24 horus Knicks had a less than market value offer, and now read one that Jazz had seriously considered.
Then "if dolan gets involved it will happen". I haven no source but that comments seems to reiterate the Melo deal pattern.
What Dolan must undertand that if bringing in a star does not provide winning the blow back by fans is going to be bad. I mean how many teams have fans protesting the ouster of its owner as knick fans have in the past.
Dolan has made efforts. They have not produced long term effects yet, but they were made.
Leon and Co. have a plan. They have a price. They have a grease board with plans. We are left to guess.
If I had to it seems they have an outline on a deal but protections might be the sticking point. If thats the case I applaud his efforts to stay protected.
wargames @ 8/4/2022 5:22 PM
I will believe this deal happens when it happens and Sham and/or Woj reports it happens. As of right now I think this team starts the season and they look to make improvements in other ways.
Nalod @ 8/4/2022 5:29 PM
wargames wrote:I will believe this deal happens when it happens and Sham and/or Woj reports it happens. As of right now I think this team starts the season and they look to make improvements in other ways.

They have. and if we go with this roster as is Its cool by me. We don't know the offers so we can't really comment.
Jsut speculate.

Clean @ 8/4/2022 6:12 PM

"I hate making posts that say nothing is new, but sometimes an update is important. So here it is: there's nothing new on the Knicks/Donovan Mitchell front.
You might see/hear things from some places and all that's being said is what we already knew a few weeks ago. The Knicks and Jazz spoke, there is definitely interest in making a deal happen and the belief around the league is a deal will happen.

But the last conversation saw both sides unwilling to compromise at this point. As I've said, the Knicks are fine with giving up draft capital. What they don't want to do is give up a valuable draft compensation AND toss in multiple young players that the team values way more than the Jazz value them.

So everyone took a break (including Donovan, who is in Europe for some Adidas work) and the expectation is they'll get in touch again at the end of the summer."

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