Knicks · Knicks in on Mitchell trade (page 41)

blkexec wrote:We finally got a young team with chemistry and we going to destroy it for D.Mitch? What if the Brunson / D.Mitch combo doesn’t work? Is the FO prepared to trade Brunson? I doubt you trade D.Mitch. I’m assuming this potential trade can cause a coach or FO to be fired. If it works, they look like geniuses.

So far I approve how Rose is handling Ainge and his ridiculous demands. Stay strong Rose. Pressure is building on both sides everyday.

The reason for Fournier's dip in production since leaving the Magic might be due to his bouncing from team to team since being traded. Being a Knick for more than one season might be what Fournier needs. He still wont put up the same numbers as DM, but it might be enough for Rose to come to the conclusion that the Knicks would be better served holding on to all those picks, and keeping Obi, or whoever the FO would send in a trade.

Rookie wrote:This is starting to look like Ainge’s ego is so butt hurt he is the only person in the NBA that doesn’t think a read only fair deal is going to get done here. I would bet my lunch that all leaks favorable to the Knicks are coming from Mitchell’s agent

DM played at Rucker lately. I like that Mitchell genuinely wants to be a Knick. Not yet another player trying to play us for a better offer from another team.

If RJ is dealt, I'm quite confident that the FO, and fans will regret it down the road. Obi as well. He put up some great numbers to end the season without a legit starting PG. Without D.Rose last season as well. Brunson and Rose might help Obi take his game to the next level. Wont find out if he's traded. The FO is apparently all in on Randle. Hopefully not so commited that Obi is considered expendable.

If Toronto would take Fournier and either IQ or Grimes (FO’s choice) and the 2024 and 2026 Knicks picks, top 5 protected, for OG Anounby, I would pull that trigger and be done with this Mitchell fiasco. Nothing against Spida, I want him here, but the price doesn’t sound right.

I would sign Melo as SF/PF and Tony Snell as SG/SF.

Brunson/Rose/McBride
Barrett/Grimes
Anounby/Reddish/Snell
Randle/Toppin/Melo
Robinson/Hart/Sims

This isn’t perfect. RJ and Randle need to take more efficient shots and act more like Wiggins and Dray. But with a little ball movement and some good shot selection, I think this team adds the same 10 wins Mitchell would have. And at the 2023 draft, we can talk about how to do better.

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:We finally got a young team with chemistry and we going to destroy it for D.Mitch? What if the Brunson / D.Mitch combo doesn’t work? Is the FO prepared to trade Brunson? I doubt you trade D.Mitch. I’m assuming this potential trade can cause a coach or FO to be fired. If it works, they look like geniuses.

So far I approve how Rose is handling Ainge and his ridiculous demands. Stay strong Rose. Pressure is building on both sides everyday.

The reason for Fournier's dip in production since leaving the Magic might be due to his bouncing from team to team since being traded. Being a Knick for more than one season might be what Fournier needs. He still wont put up the same numbers as DM, but it might be enough for Rose to come to the conclusion that the Knicks would be better served holding on to all those picks, and keeping Obi, or whoever the FO would send in a trade.

Fournier would be a high scoring (15 to 20 pt) 6th man for 24 min in GS Warriors team screening offense.
Head coach Thibs has always been a terrible offensive coach that depends on the teams Iso-scoring players (one on one moves) for the team offense. Under Thibs 2 season watch, there has only been three players always providing picks and screens for Knicks teammates to score .. MitchRob, Taj Gibson, and Bullocks.
The Utah Jazz coach Snyder provided Donovan Mitchell several screens & Picks with/and without the ball to get quick scoring for the Jazz team.
I'm still waiting to see a pick n roll from Randle & D.Rose ???

Im not sure the FO has re-commited to Randle wholeheartedly. Im sure they tried to shop him around the league but no one seems interested. His behavior last season and how media and the fans covered and paid attention to him could have affected his trade value this offseason. Maybe the FO is determined to find an answer to the Randle-Obi dilemma, it just so happens that obi is the more attractive trade chip.

If the Jazz is starting to feel the pressure and Danny is realizing that his hardball tactics is starting to create more enemies than allies in this league, maybe he can be tricked to agreeing in a lowball offer.

My ideal trade: Fournier, Cam and Duece plus 2 protected 1st(the most likely picks not to convey) and 2 unprotected picks.

Hopefully Randle can have a bounce back year and just trade him on the trade deadline. Randle has too many baggages, evennif he is an all star his negative behavior when ever he is on a slump is not worth it.

The more I look at RJs shooting, the more I come around to including him in a trade for Mitchell if it means the Knicks can hold on to Grimes and more picks. Rose and RJ for Mitchell works salary wise.

Jimbo5 wrote:Im not sure the FO has re-commited to Randle wholeheartedly. Im sure they tried to shop him around the league but no one seems interested. His behavior last season and how media and the fans covered and paid attention to him could have affected his trade value this offseason. Maybe the FO is determined to find an answer to the Randle-Obi dilemma, it just so happens that obi is the more attractive trade chip.

If the Jazz is starting to feel the pressure and Danny is realizing that his hardball tactics is starting to create more enemies than allies in this league, maybe he can be tricked to agreeing in a lowball offer.

My ideal trade: Fournier, Cam and Duece plus 2 protected 1st(the most likely picks not to convey) and 2 unprotected picks.

Hopefully Randle can have a bounce back year and just trade him on the trade deadline. Randle has too many baggages, evennif he is an all star his negative behavior when ever he is on a slump is not worth it.

I just don't see .. a Brunson, Donovan, Barrett, and Randle lineup clicking on both ends of the court to play .500 season ball.
Does Randle need the ball in his hands for 40 minutes a game to average 20-10-5 ???

gradyandrew wrote:The more I look at RJs shooting, the more I come around to including him in a trade for Mitchell if it means the Knicks can hold on to Grimes and more picks. Rose and RJ for Mitchell works salary wise.

D.Rose are a KEEPER till he retire !!!

We already let a great veteran HOF get away in Jason Kidd !!!

Kemet wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The more I look at RJs shooting, the more I come around to including him in a trade for Mitchell if it means the Knicks can hold on to Grimes and more picks. Rose and RJ for Mitchell works salary wise.

D.Rose are a KEEPER till he retire !!!

We already let a great veteran HOF get away in Jason Kidd !!!

I like Rose and he is a great story, especially here. However, to be completely honest I see his story ending in Chicago. Not sure whether we trade him there or he goes there in FA (either as a goodbye season or to retire a Bull), but I have heard enough that I honestly believe he finishes up there.

Kemet wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Im not sure the FO has re-commited to Randle wholeheartedly. Im sure they tried to shop him around the league but no one seems interested. His behavior last season and how media and the fans covered and paid attention to him could have affected his trade value this offseason. Maybe the FO is determined to find an answer to the Randle-Obi dilemma, it just so happens that obi is the more attractive trade chip.

If the Jazz is starting to feel the pressure and Danny is realizing that his hardball tactics is starting to create more enemies than allies in this league, maybe he can be tricked to agreeing in a lowball offer.

My ideal trade: Fournier, Cam and Duece plus 2 protected 1st(the most likely picks not to convey) and 2 unprotected picks.

Hopefully Randle can have a bounce back year and just trade him on the trade deadline. Randle has too many baggages, evennif he is an all star his negative behavior when ever he is on a slump is not worth it.

I just don't see .. a Brunson, Donovan, Barrett, and Randle lineup clicking on both ends of the court to play .500 season ball.
Does Randle need the ball in his hands for 40 minutes a game to average 20-10-5 ???

The key here is the expectation of Randle, IMO. Brunson's leadership will outweigh his stats but around 19 pts and 6 to 7 assists is my expectation for him, at best. IMO, Very close to Mike Conley stats.

Donovan at 24 6 and 6.

Barrett can put up 23 8 and 3 or so, give or take and good defense. I also think he will be a captain.

Randle, if he can put up 18 8 and 5, with a good attitude and some real grit I will be happy. I never expected him to repeat 2 years ago. Bar was too high.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:Save the 10 min. What Hahn said was "Fuck you Danny!"......
Not really.
He did a good breakdown. Super important is fan and subsequent media pressure. That tanked/sucked it up for two years in our back court to get here with Brunson, a more developed IQ, Grimes, and RJ gives us options. We collected picks also. We could have used that capital but team has a vision of sorts.
Media and fans are not in on this. If fans have "Trade fatigue" that's because your lapping up the media stuff and react. The longer it goes on the better I feel about not over paying. Sure we'll be uncomfortable. Some of you love Obi and hate randle and want what you want, others see IQ as a future star and would not be happy to see him go. Others like me see RJ as a Jimmy Butler type who will still develop into his own brand of player.

Jimmy Butler is a good comp for RJ. I originally thought he was be a better shooting version and lesser defensive version of Jimmy, but still close as far as career ceiling.

I actually don't hate Randle, I hate management for putting Obi and Thibs in this situation. Randle is a beast and he can carry a team, he's already proved that. But still think he's better as the #2 or #1b on this team. But having Obi, Randle and Thibs on the same team next season doesn't work for me. And I believe that feeling is mutual. It creates a glut in the rotation and makes the relationship between Obi and Randle difficult. Moving on from Randle is a personal preference and quick fix, as far as chemistry and team style of play. I believe this team is moving from a half court team (Randle Style) to an up and down team (Obi Style).

I'm not confident in Randle taking 3 or 4 back seats (D.Mith, RJ, Brunson), when he struggled to take 1 back seat last year (RJ). Randle didn't seem engaged and spent more time focusing on the refs and allowing his man to run free or with the thumbs down gesture to the fans. RJ meanwhile was a solid professional during that time and simply got better and better each year. He's primed to have a solid year.

What Obi brings is something Randle cannot. Thats speed and easy transition buckets (with momentum shifting dunks), without dribbling the air out the ball. Now that we have Brunson and RJ, who will dominate the ball (and D.Mitch), we need to compliment them with players that fit, who are efficient scorers that do not have to over dribble to score (Grimes and Obi). And I'm sorry but Randle hasn't shown us he can play off the ball, while RJ dominated the ball. How do you think Randle will play as the 4th option, if he couldn't handle the 2nd option?

Obi in crunch time is not that free flowing fun player we enjoy. His history is as a slow adaptor and given that, and how covid hit rookies to be that year it might have hurt him more than others. By that, March shutdown and summer lockdown. Draft was 2-3 weeks before camp that year. Weird stuff. I'm not negative on him at all.

Simmons on Utah makes little sense given his contract and age. might as well keep DM. Nets have Joe harris and seth curry for shooter. EF is redundant if that his only purpose.
There is nothing we can think of or worry that the knicks themselves have not addressed or thought thru regarding Randle. They have film, advance breakdowns and all kinds of things that tells them far more than we can.

I get it and understand they know more or SHOULD know more. But what fun is that? The fun part is to play GM. Thats what fans do and why forums like this is so fun and growing fast. Also, some of the people working for GM's go through or sign up to forums like this to get different ideas and perspectives. I don't remember where I read this, but it was in some article I read some time ago.

But GM's and the FO are humans and not robots, regardless how much film they watch. And they make mistakes. And clearly drafting Obi then giving Randle a huge contract extension was a calculated mistake. Adding Kemba (eventhough fans who supposedly doesn't know any better than the professional GMs) was another mistake, which is why we had to add a pick to get rid of certain players. So I don't put all my faith into people or humans who haven't shown to be perfect. Plus it takes the fun out of it. Otherwise this is how these discussions will go:

"Thibs is a pro and he's been a coach before some of these fans were born. Thibs knows talent and knows what to do better than any fan, they see these guys in practice all the time." yes thats very true and also very boring. Theres no challenge in saying he's a pro and he knows best.

VS

"Thibs needs to play X....Doesn't Thibs see that Deuce is a lockdown defender? Why add Brunson, if we already have IQ, Rose, Deuce and Grimes who used to be a PG."

Now thats fun. You should try it sometime. We all know they watch these guys all the time and have film from every angle on these guys. And they still made mistakes that fans called them out on. The Obi situation is something they could've avoided, if they listened to fans. We needed a PG, we had a PF. So we pass on a PG and draft a PF.

Maybe it's only me, but I challenge professionals all the time. I challenge my teachers all the time. I might be wrong most of the time, but its that one time where the teacher says, "you know what, thats a good idea".

Let these fans play GM....Play coach...Play owner. You should try it!

Pretend play by adults pretending to know shit? Ok for player movement stuff but we transpose coaching of the past to the future and label like we expert. Thats a bit weird. Questioning is ok but they not here to ansswer. So you state your opinion. Thats cool. But back it up with what is known is cool. Hindsight stuff, I get it. Fans do it all the time and think they know better. But Then to back it up as you know what others are thinking? Thats silly.

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Kemet wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Im not sure the FO has re-commited to Randle wholeheartedly. Im sure they tried to shop him around the league but no one seems interested. His behavior last season and how media and the fans covered and paid attention to him could have affected his trade value this offseason. Maybe the FO is determined to find an answer to the Randle-Obi dilemma, it just so happens that obi is the more attractive trade chip.

If the Jazz is starting to feel the pressure and Danny is realizing that his hardball tactics is starting to create more enemies than allies in this league, maybe he can be tricked to agreeing in a lowball offer.

My ideal trade: Fournier, Cam and Duece plus 2 protected 1st(the most likely picks not to convey) and 2 unprotected picks.

Hopefully Randle can have a bounce back year and just trade him on the trade deadline. Randle has too many baggages, evennif he is an all star his negative behavior when ever he is on a slump is not worth it.

I just don't see .. a Brunson, Donovan, Barrett, and Randle lineup clicking on both ends of the court to play .500 season ball.
Does Randle need the ball in his hands for 40 minutes a game to average 20-10-5 ???

A good clue would be the 2018 Season in which Randle played alongside bonafide stars. He averaged 20 in 30 minutes.

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:Save the 10 min. What Hahn said was "Fuck you Danny!"......
Not really.
He did a good breakdown. Super important is fan and subsequent media pressure. That tanked/sucked it up for two years in our back court to get here with Brunson, a more developed IQ, Grimes, and RJ gives us options. We collected picks also. We could have used that capital but team has a vision of sorts.
Media and fans are not in on this. If fans have "Trade fatigue" that's because your lapping up the media stuff and react. The longer it goes on the better I feel about not over paying. Sure we'll be uncomfortable. Some of you love Obi and hate randle and want what you want, others see IQ as a future star and would not be happy to see him go. Others like me see RJ as a Jimmy Butler type who will still develop into his own brand of player.

Jimmy Butler is a good comp for RJ. I originally thought he was be a better shooting version and lesser defensive version of Jimmy, but still close as far as career ceiling.

I actually don't hate Randle, I hate management for putting Obi and Thibs in this situation. Randle is a beast and he can carry a team, he's already proved that. But still think he's better as the #2 or #1b on this team. But having Obi, Randle and Thibs on the same team next season doesn't work for me. And I believe that feeling is mutual. It creates a glut in the rotation and makes the relationship between Obi and Randle difficult. Moving on from Randle is a personal preference and quick fix, as far as chemistry and team style of play. I believe this team is moving from a half court team (Randle Style) to an up and down team (Obi Style).

I'm not confident in Randle taking 3 or 4 back seats (D.Mith, RJ, Brunson), when he struggled to take 1 back seat last year (RJ). Randle didn't seem engaged and spent more time focusing on the refs and allowing his man to run free or with the thumbs down gesture to the fans. RJ meanwhile was a solid professional during that time and simply got better and better each year. He's primed to have a solid year.

What Obi brings is something Randle cannot. Thats speed and easy transition buckets (with momentum shifting dunks), without dribbling the air out the ball. Now that we have Brunson and RJ, who will dominate the ball (and D.Mitch), we need to compliment them with players that fit, who are efficient scorers that do not have to over dribble to score (Grimes and Obi). And I'm sorry but Randle hasn't shown us he can play off the ball, while RJ dominated the ball. How do you think Randle will play as the 4th option, if he couldn't handle the 2nd option?

Obi in crunch time is not that free flowing fun player we enjoy. His history is as a slow adaptor and given that, and how covid hit rookies to be that year it might have hurt him more than others. By that, March shutdown and summer lockdown. Draft was 2-3 weeks before camp that year. Weird stuff. I'm not negative on him at all.

Simmons on Utah makes little sense given his contract and age. might as well keep DM. Nets have Joe harris and seth curry for shooter. EF is redundant if that his only purpose.
There is nothing we can think of or worry that the knicks themselves have not addressed or thought thru regarding Randle. They have film, advance breakdowns and all kinds of things that tells them far more than we can.

I get it and understand they know more or SHOULD know more. But what fun is that? The fun part is to play GM. Thats what fans do and why forums like this is so fun and growing fast. Also, some of the people working for GM's go through or sign up to forums like this to get different ideas and perspectives. I don't remember where I read this, but it was in some article I read some time ago.

But GM's and the FO are humans and not robots, regardless how much film they watch. And they make mistakes. And clearly drafting Obi then giving Randle a huge contract extension was a calculated mistake. Adding Kemba (eventhough fans who supposedly doesn't know any better than the professional GMs) was another mistake, which is why we had to add a pick to get rid of certain players. So I don't put all my faith into people or humans who haven't shown to be perfect. Plus it takes the fun out of it. Otherwise this is how these discussions will go:

"Thibs is a pro and he's been a coach before some of these fans were born. Thibs knows talent and knows what to do better than any fan, they see these guys in practice all the time." yes thats very true and also very boring. Theres no challenge in saying he's a pro and he knows best.

VS

"Thibs needs to play X....Doesn't Thibs see that Deuce is a lockdown defender? Why add Brunson, if we already have IQ, Rose, Deuce and Grimes who used to be a PG."

Now thats fun. You should try it sometime. We all know they watch these guys all the time and have film from every angle on these guys. And they still made mistakes that fans called them out on. The Obi situation is something they could've avoided, if they listened to fans. We needed a PG, we had a PF. So we pass on a PG and draft a PF.

Maybe it's only me, but I challenge professionals all the time. I challenge my teachers all the time. I might be wrong most of the time, but its that one time where the teacher says, "you know what, thats a good idea".

Let these fans play GM....Play coach...Play owner. You should try it!

Pretend play by adults pretending to know shit? Ok for player movement stuff but we transpose coaching of the past to the future and label like we expert. Thats a bit weird. Questioning is ok but they not here to ansswer. So you state your opinion. Thats cool. But back it up with what is known is cool. Hindsight stuff, I get it. Fans do it all the time and think they know better. But Then to back it up as you know what others are thinking? Thats silly.

Are you arguing we shouldn’t discuss Knicks moves on a Knick forum? Or that we shouldn’t be critical of Knicks management decisions because we are not in charge?

A simplistic disproof of your position is just cognitive bias. That is, people in positions of management and control end up anchored to belief structures that may deviate from reality in the absence of quantitative analysis that shows actual statistical patterns.

Consider “Moneyball” next to “Trouble with the Curve”. One highlights analytics in sports while the other points out the flaws in ignoring time tested “gut” decisions. That is, if you don’t include the sound a kids bat makes when making contact, you may miss a critical flaw. More simply, there are gaps in analytics.

The simplest answer is aggregation. There is no actual limit on the number of opinions that can be aggregated. You simply have to choose how to weight those decisions.

Long story short, opinions on this board should be weighted for what they are - amateur opinions without the benefit of professional training or the consequences of being wrong. That said, the professional opinions should be more heavily weighted (as in all of the decisions). It would be intelligent for them to consider the “wisdom of the crowd” to understand how lots of professionals are considering things. But that mechanic doesn’t really exist. MSG could create a fan based model GM game and aggregate data from that for additional input to the decision-makers, but without a method to test outcomes, it’s not possible to determine which decision makers are best.

So, instead, we can just daydream and make up posts about how we should have gotten FVV, Christian Wood and Jerami Grant instead of Alec Burks and others.

I think there is a lot of wisdom on this board and many posters change my opinion on whether ideas are good or not.

blkexec wrote:We finally got a young team with chemistry and we going to destroy it for D.Mitch? What if the Brunson / D.Mitch combo doesn’t work? Is the FO prepared to trade Brunson? I doubt you trade D.Mitch. I’m assuming this potential trade can cause a coach or FO to be fired. If it works, they look like geniuses.

So far I approve how Rose is handling Ainge and his ridiculous demands. Stay strong Rose. Pressure is building on both sides everyday.

I don’t see any chemistry? Why? No games have been played. Its all on paper for now. The feel good ending of inconsequential game were IQ and Obi did good are enough to substantiate? I don’t subscribe to that What if it does not work? Good question. Whats a good amount of time to determine?
Depends on why it don’t work? Is our short back court? WIng play? Is Randle still grumpy? Injuries?

Kemet wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The more I look at RJs shooting, the more I come around to including him in a trade for Mitchell if it means the Knicks can hold on to Grimes and more picks. Rose and RJ for Mitchell works salary wise.

D.Rose are a KEEPER till he retire !!!

We already let a great veteran HOF get away in Jason Kidd !!!

Jason kidd needed how many years before he became a good coach? Does Drose even have such aspirations? Not all good/great veterans are good mentors let alone coaches.

Danny Ainge. First off lets be real, he is in the drivers seat trying to extract max value for his player. I have no issues with any of it. Seems as if Knicks view his price as too high. AInge should look around and see if he can get a better deal than whats the knicks are offering. Its his job!
I don’t really care to spend the time to figure his angle out and how he wants to tank if thats his thing. Top pick is just 14.5% odds each for the worst three teams.
If he wants to settle his roster with a trade by camp, thats on him. DM and his agent im sure are all in on whats doing on and at the same time he no doubt stated his preference to be a knick or net Ainge fully is aware he can try to extract what he can from us. Dolan has a better team around him than in the past and this is what they were built for. They got negotiation chops.
I hope they draw a line in the sand and don’t cross it. What does that mean? I don’t know.

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:We finally got a young team with chemistry and we going to destroy it for D.Mitch? What if the Brunson / D.Mitch combo doesn’t work? Is the FO prepared to trade Brunson? I doubt you trade D.Mitch. I’m assuming this potential trade can cause a coach or FO to be fired. If it works, they look like geniuses.

So far I approve how Rose is handling Ainge and his ridiculous demands. Stay strong Rose. Pressure is building on both sides everyday.

The reason for Fournier's dip in production since leaving the Magic might be due to his bouncing from team to team since being traded. Being a Knick for more than one season might be what Fournier needs. He still wont put up the same numbers as DM, but it might be enough for Rose to come to the conclusion that the Knicks would be better served holding on to all those picks, and keeping Obi, or whoever the FO would send in a trade.

EF looked good last few months in season. Im not anti grimes at all, but im not ready to hand him the keys unless we are making trades.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:We finally got a young team with chemistry and we going to destroy it for D.Mitch? What if the Brunson / D.Mitch combo doesn’t work? Is the FO prepared to trade Brunson? I doubt you trade D.Mitch. I’m assuming this potential trade can cause a coach or FO to be fired. If it works, they look like geniuses.

So far I approve how Rose is handling Ainge and his ridiculous demands. Stay strong Rose. Pressure is building on both sides everyday.

The reason for Fournier's dip in production since leaving the Magic might be due to his bouncing from team to team since being traded. Being a Knick for more than one season might be what Fournier needs. He still wont put up the same numbers as DM, but it might be enough for Rose to come to the conclusion that the Knicks would be better served holding on to all those picks, and keeping Obi, or whoever the FO would send in a trade.

EF looked good last few months in season. Im not anti grimes at all, but im not ready to hand him the keys unless we are making trades.

Personally, (If I had to chose between Grimes and EF), I rather take a chance on Grimes because of his defense. I also like Grimes catch and shoot abilities (over EF), which fits perfect next to 4 guys that all need the ball to contribute (Brunson, DM, RJ, Randle).

EF is similar to those 4 guys. He said this himself, that he's more than a catch and shoot player, which is great to hear, but not the right fit with this team. Thats why he looked lost sometimes waiting for RJ and Randle to finish dribbling. Eventually he figured it out but in spurts. His defense was still bad. But his offense is not the problem, eventhough it's not a perfect fit (in my opinion), becasue EF can and wants to do more than catch and shoot (Grimes loves it). It's EFs turn-style defense for me. And maybe it looked worse paired up with Kemba. But Brunson also has defensive challenges and Brunson / EF is a bad defensive combination. Thats also why I'm not so high on Brunson / DM, but at least DM can make up for it on offense since the offense will be based on him as the focal point. If our offense was centered around EF, that could work as well.

EF off the bench is why I said it's perfect for his style of play. He like to play with the ball as well, and his offense is more about feel. Off the bench, EF doesn't have to compete with RJ or Randle and he can be the #1 offensive engine next to IQ.

If we are building around 2 inefficient volume shooters (now adding 2 more volume shooters in Brunson and DM), we need to surround them with PURE catch and shoot 3&D players (Not rhythm players like EF). Thats why it worked during Randles huge year. Bullock was more important than some of you guys thought, regardless of how bad he shot in the playoffs. But enough about the old, Grimes is a new version that catch and shoot player we need. And to be successful with this build around RJ and Randle (now Brunson and DM), we need more Grimes 3&D type players.

I’m pretty sure Danny is keeping tabs on this thread. So I’ll just leave this here…

Pretend play by adults pretending to know ****? Ok for player movement stuff but we transpose coaching of the past to the future and label like we expert. Thats a bit weird. Questioning is ok but they not here to answer. So you state your opinion. Thats cool. But back it up with what is known is cool. Hindsight stuff, I get it. Fans do it all the time and think they know better. But Then to back it up as you know what others are thinking? Thats silly.

Nalod.....I hear you and I completely understand your take.

I also completely disagree with your take.

I actually think this is a silly discussion. On a forum built on fans opinions, out cry, pretending to be GM's, providing their perspectives, challenging the status quo, challenging the "Ole Mighty" Thibs, FO and Owner.

Normally I can meet you half way on 90% of our discussions. Can't do it this time buddy. I'm sure Martin (and other forums like this) would like to thank all the fans, who voice their opinions (without a filter). Question the authority of a franchise that hasn't don't shet since I was in diapers.

We just going to agree to disagree on this point, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I rather be around people who disagree with me instead of agreeing on everything.

Thibs, this FO and the owner has clearly made mistakes. The 'Ole Mighty' Phil Jackson, Larry Brown....Theres a long list I can go on. But just to stay on Phil jackson (my favorite punching bag), I was on record saying he would be the worse hire, and should be arrested for stealing Dolans money (Selected Frank over DM?). And I'm on record saying he was an overrated coach. And I got killed for it from you and others. I also said his in over his head as the Knicks GM or President (whatever title he had). That doesn't change my opinion and history now speaks for itself.

These guys are humans man, I don't give a damn if you want to call them all experts. For example, I recently created an IG post challenging the "Ole Might" Steve Jobs (RIP) who was born on my birthday February 24, 1955 (Shameless Plug). But that post has grown to over 10K views. Experts are meant to be challenged. Not meant to just bow down and say "They the expert so they most know best". We view life different man, thats all.

I challenge everything brother, but thats who I am and who I always been. Now that I'm a silly adult, pretending to be an expert (using your words), I have a mentor who happens to be a millionare approaching billionaire status. And guess what his first assignment was? take a guess? Find an expert and challenge them. So I chose Steve Jobs and wow, the views on that post is growing fast.

But I'm not trying to change you or this forum. But I'm definitely going to call out or continue to challenge the coaching staff, FO, Owners, fans or even myself. Guess I'm in the silly adult category who loves to challenge, discuss and have bar like ideas to fix this mess. I'm not sure what I would do if the knicks all of the sudden, started to look like a well oiled machine. Which currently, Rose and company are doing a great job. Some misses here and there, but overall I approve.