Knicks · Knicks in on Mitchell trade (page 42)

Pretend play by adults pretending to know ****? Ok for player movement stuff but we transpose coaching of the past to the future and label like we expert. Thats a bit weird. Questioning is ok but they not here to answer. So you state your opinion. Thats cool. But back it up with what is known is cool. Hindsight stuff, I get it. Fans do it all the time and think they know better. But Then to back it up as you know what others are thinking? Thats silly.

Nalod.....I hear you and I completely understand your take.

I also completely disagree with your take.

I actually think this is a silly discussion. On a forum built on fans opinions, out cry, pretending to be GM's, providing their perspectives, challenging the status quo, challenging the "Ole Mighty" Thibs, FO and Owner.

Normally I can meet you half way on 90% of our discussions. Can't do it this time buddy. I'm sure Martin (and other forums like this) would like to thank all the fans, who voice their opinions (without a filter). Question the authority of a franchise that hasn't don't shet since I was in diapers.

We just going to agree to disagree on this point, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I rather be around people who disagree with me instead of agreeing on everything.

Thibs, this FO and the owner has clearly made mistakes. The 'Ole Mighty' Phil Jackson, Larry Brown....Theres a long list I can go on. But just to stay on Phil jackson (my favorite punching bag), I was on record saying he would be the worse hire, and should be arrested for stealing Dolans money (Selected Frank over DM?). And I'm on record saying he was an overrated coach. And I got killed for it from you and others. I also said his in over his head as the Knicks GM or President (whatever title he had). That doesn't change my opinion and history now speaks for itself.

These guys are humans man, I don't give a damn if you want to call them all experts. For example, I recently created an IG post challenging the "Ole Might" Steve Jobs (RIP) who was born on my birthday February 24, 1955 (Shameless Plug). But that post has grown to over 10K views. Experts are meant to be challenged. Not meant to just bow down and say "They the expert so they most know best". We view life different man, thats all.

I challenge everything brother, but thats who I am and who I always been. Now that I'm a silly adult, pretending to be an expert (using your words), I have a mentor who happens to be a millionare approaching billionaire status. And guess what his first assignment was? take a guess? Find an expert and challenge them. So I chose Steve Jobs and wow, the views on that post is growing fast.

But I'm not trying to change you or this forum. But I'm definitely going to call out or continue to challenge the coaching staff, FO, Owners, fans or even myself. Guess I'm in the silly adult category who loves to challenge, discuss and have bar like ideas to fix this mess. I'm not sure what I would do if the knicks all of the sudden, started to look like a well oiled machine. Which currently, Rose and company are doing a great job. Some misses here and there, but overall I approve.

ToddTT wrote:I’m pretty sure Danny is keeping tabs on this thread. So I’ll just leave this here…

Maybe it's just me, but OG Anunoby (the ultimate 3&D player) appears to be a better fit and a Thibs type defender. If we can get him for a similar package we offered Utah, I'm not mad at that. I wonder why there hasn't been more noise on this.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kni...

Below is an interesting question from the article above. I have this same question for DMitch.

The Knicks have enough to get a deal done, but do they want to give up so many of their desirables for someone who isn’t putting them over the top?

ToddTT wrote:I’m pretty sure Danny is keeping tabs on this thread. So I’ll just leave this here…

Trying to figure out under which situation Raptors would trade OG and the only real move would be RJ and perhaps a center?

blkexec wrote:

Pretend play by adults pretending to know ****? Ok for player movement stuff but we transpose coaching of the past to the future and label like we expert. Thats a bit weird. Questioning is ok but they not here to answer. So you state your opinion. Thats cool. But back it up with what is known is cool. Hindsight stuff, I get it. Fans do it all the time and think they know better. But Then to back it up as you know what others are thinking? Thats silly.

Nalod.....I hear you and I completely understand your take.

I also completely disagree with your take.

I actually think this is a silly discussion. On a forum built on fans opinions, out cry, pretending to be GM's, providing their perspectives, challenging the status quo, challenging the "Ole Mighty" Thibs, FO and Owner.

Normally I can meet you half way on 90% of our discussions. Can't do it this time buddy. I'm sure Martin (and other forums like this) would like to thank all the fans, who voice their opinions (without a filter). Question the authority of a franchise that hasn't don't shet since I was in diapers.

We just going to agree to disagree on this point, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I rather be around people who disagree with me instead of agreeing on everything.

Thibs, this FO and the owner has clearly made mistakes. The 'Ole Mighty' Phil Jackson, Larry Brown....Theres a long list I can go on. But just to stay on Phil jackson (my favorite punching bag), I was on record saying he would be the worse hire, and should be arrested for stealing Dolans money (Selected Frank over DM?). And I'm on record saying he was an overrated coach. And I got killed for it from you and others. I also said his in over his head as the Knicks GM or President (whatever title he had). That doesn't change my opinion and history now speaks for itself.

These guys are humans man, I don't give a damn if you want to call them all experts. For example, I recently created an IG post challenging the "Ole Might" Steve Jobs (RIP) who was born on my birthday February 24, 1955 (Shameless Plug). But that post has grown to over 10K views. Experts are meant to be challenged. Not meant to just bow down and say "They the expert so they most know best". We view life different man, thats all.

I challenge everything brother, but thats who I am and who I always been. Now that I'm a silly adult, pretending to be an expert (using your words), I have a mentor who happens to be a millionare approaching billionaire status. And guess what his first assignment was? take a guess? Find an expert and challenge them. So I chose Steve Jobs and wow, the views on that post is growing fast.

But I'm not trying to change you or this forum. But I'm definitely going to call out or continue to challenge the coaching staff, FO, Owners, fans or even myself. Guess I'm in the silly adult category who loves to challenge, discuss and have bar like ideas to fix this mess. I'm not sure what I would do if the knicks all of the sudden, started to look like a well oiled machine. Which currently, Rose and company are doing a great job. Some misses here and there, but overall I approve.

Challenge in hindsight is not hard. On record at the moment is impressive.

Phil was a shit exec. You called it? You got bragging rights. As for over rated coach? Nope.
But thats ok to not agree on that old story. 11 rings are no coincidence. Jordan won nothing before Phil. Yes, great coaches all have great players. Not all great players have great coaches and chips to match. Not Jordan, Not Kobe. and then not shaq. Kobe and Jordan have zero rings except with Phil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

Donovan Mitchell Contenders | Process of Elimination

Following the great news that the Cavs are out on Mitchell, I wanted to take a fresh look to see if there are any teams could possibly match the Knicks’ latest offer of Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, and 5 first round picks (2 unprotected). After breaking teams out in the below groups, it’s looking like slim pickings for Danny Ainge — hope he makes this deal already.

1. Lack of Draft Capital

This is the simplest reason to eliminate suitors. These teams can’t really match the Knicks’ latest offer of two unprotected firsts (“UFRPs”) plus three additional protected first round picks (“PFRPs”), which seems to have established a floor for teams to have a competitive offer.

1. MIN (best offer of 2 swaps)

2. DEN (4 swaps)

3. POR (6 swaps)

4. MIL (1 UFRP and 1 swap)

5. LAC (1 UFRP and 2 swaps)

6. PHI (1 UFRP and 3 swaps)

7. CHA (1 UFRP and 5 swaps)

8. SAC (1 UFRP and 5 swaps)

9. CHI (1 UFRP, 1 PFRP, and 1 swap)

10. BKN (2 UFRPs and 1 swap)

11. DAL (2 UFRPs and 4 swaps)

12. MIA (2 UFRPs and 4 swaps)

13. LAL (2 UFRPs and 4 swaps)

14. GSW (2 UFRPs and 5 swaps)

15. ATL (2 UFRPs, 1 PFRP, and 2 swaps)

16. CHA (2 UFRP, 1 PFRP, and 4 swaps)

2. Designated Rookie Max

NBA rules limit teams to a max two players on these extensions, but only one via trade. While teams can work around this issue by including a designated rookie in the trade, it presents a significant hurdle to competing a deal.

17. CLE (Darius Garland, Evan Mobley)

Bonus: Teams that also lack picks

MIN (KAT, Anthony Edwards)

DEN (Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.)

BKN (Ben Simmons)

GSW (Andrew Wiggins)

3. Rebuilding Teams

Although Donovan Mitchell is an incredible player, it doesn’t make sense for rebuilding rosters to send out a large trade package without having enough talent to even avoid the play-in game.

18. IND

19. OKC

20. HOU

21. SAS

22. ORL

Note: I think there’s an outside chance that Orlando would consider a trade to pair Mitchell with Banchero, but offering multiple unprotected picks after finishing in second-to-last place feels too risky to be realistic.

4. Already Have “Their Guy”

As with any player on the trade block, several teams will pass because they’re happy with the players they already have on the roster. Especially considering the Jazz’s high asking price, a trade seems unlikely for these teams.

23. PHX (Devin Booker)

24. DET (Jaden Ivey; fits Cade’s timeline)

25. NOP (CJ McCollum; just traded for him)

Remaining Teams

After 25 eliminations, the following teams remain. Although the Knicks are the only listed team with reported interest, any of these three could be lurking after the recent KD news. I’ve also included what players they might realistically offer along with the picks they could trade. While the Knicks can still clearly make the best offer, it may need to add more to exceed some of the below packages.

Boston Celtics

Players: Derrick White, Robert Williams, and Payton Pritchard (could also include Marcus Smart and Grant Williams)

Picks: 3 UFRPs and 2 swaps

Toronto Raptors

Players: Gary Trent, Precious Achiuwa, Malachi Flynn, and Khem Birch (could also include OG Anunoby and Fred VanVleet)

Picks: 4 UFRPs and 3 swaps

Memphis Grizzlies

Players: Dillon Brooks, Danny Green, Ziaire Williams, and Jake LaRavia (could also include Steven Adams, Desmond Bane, Brandon Clarke, Xavier Tillman, and David Roddy)

Picks: 4 UFRPs, 1 PFRP, and 3 swaps

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:I’m pretty sure Danny is keeping tabs on this thread. So I’ll just leave this here…

Trying to figure out under which situation Raptors would trade OG and the only real move would be RJ and perhaps a center?

I could see the RJ interest for marketing purposes. But he's about to be paid and even if he doesn't get the max, I'm sure RJ next deal will be more than OGs. I'm thinking Toronto would want one unprotected and another protected to get the ball moving. Maybe throw in IQ? I'm not sure I value OG that much. At least not with the current roster.

Honestly unless Mitchell comes out demanding a trade I think they go through to the season and something happens.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:I’m pretty sure Danny is keeping tabs on this thread. So I’ll just leave this here…

Trying to figure out under which situation Raptors would trade OG and the only real move would be RJ and perhaps a center?

I could see the RJ interest for marketing purposes. But he's about to be paid and even if he doesn't get the max, I'm sure RJ next deal will be more than OGs. I'm thinking Toronto would want one unprotected and another protected to get the ball moving. Maybe throw in IQ? I'm not sure I value OG that much. At least not with the current roster.

I don’t think the Knicks trade RJ. His demeanor alone adds to his value because you can see he is the leader of the young guys.

Meanwhile Masai isn’t in a rush to trade OG as well. They have Barnes and Otto so they could do the trade, but OG is still a good player. Rumors are Masai only wants to trade for a high end starter/star. The best option I could see the Knicks getting OG would be if the Knicks were needed as a third team in a superstar trade with their draft picks and OG got sent their way as compensation. Maybe if Shai (another Canadian) is about to be shipped out and the Knicks offer their draft picks as part of the payout to the Thunder…

Anyhow this is all fan fiction because the Knicks wouldn’t even entertain helping the Raptors out unless Donovan Mitchell was no longer available.

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martin wrote:Good stuff from Reddit poster

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

Donovan Mitchell Contenders | Process of Elimination

Following the great news that the Cavs are out on Mitchell, I wanted to take a fresh look to see if there are any teams could possibly match the Knicks’ latest offer of Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, and 5 first round picks (2 unprotected). After breaking teams out in the below groups, it’s looking like slim pickings for Danny Ainge — hope he makes this deal already.

1. Lack of Draft Capital

This is the simplest reason to eliminate suitors. These teams can’t really match the Knicks’ latest offer of two unprotected firsts (“UFRPs”) plus three additional protected first round picks (“PFRPs”), which seems to have established a floor for teams to have a competitive offer.

1. MIN (best offer of 2 swaps)

2. DEN (4 swaps)

3. POR (6 swaps)

4. MIL (1 UFRP and 1 swap)

5. LAC (1 UFRP and 2 swaps)

6. PHI (1 UFRP and 3 swaps)

7. CHA (1 UFRP and 5 swaps)

8. SAC (1 UFRP and 5 swaps)

9. CHI (1 UFRP, 1 PFRP, and 1 swap)

10. BKN (2 UFRPs and 1 swap)

11. DAL (2 UFRPs and 4 swaps)

12. MIA (2 UFRPs and 4 swaps)

13. LAL (2 UFRPs and 4 swaps)

14. GSW (2 UFRPs and 5 swaps)

15. ATL (2 UFRPs, 1 PFRP, and 2 swaps)

16. CHA (2 UFRP, 1 PFRP, and 4 swaps)

2. Designated Rookie Max

NBA rules limit teams to a max two players on these extensions, but only one via trade. While teams can work around this issue by including a designated rookie in the trade, it presents a significant hurdle to competing a deal.

17. CLE (Darius Garland, Evan Mobley)

Bonus: Teams that also lack picks

MIN (KAT, Anthony Edwards)

DEN (Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr.)

BKN (Ben Simmons)

GSW (Andrew Wiggins)

3. Rebuilding Teams

Although Donovan Mitchell is an incredible player, it doesn’t make sense for rebuilding rosters to send out a large trade package without having enough talent to even avoid the play-in game.

18. IND

19. OKC

20. HOU

21. SAS

22. ORL

Note: I think there’s an outside chance that Orlando would consider a trade to pair Mitchell with Banchero, but offering multiple unprotected picks after finishing in second-to-last place feels too risky to be realistic.

4. Already Have “Their Guy”

As with any player on the trade block, several teams will pass because they’re happy with the players they already have on the roster. Especially considering the Jazz’s high asking price, a trade seems unlikely for these teams.

23. PHX (Devin Booker)

24. DET (Jaden Ivey; fits Cade’s timeline)

25. NOP (CJ McCollum; just traded for him)

Remaining Teams

After 25 eliminations, the following teams remain. Although the Knicks are the only listed team with reported interest, any of these three could be lurking after the recent KD news. I’ve also included what players they might realistically offer along with the picks they could trade. While the Knicks can still clearly make the best offer, it may need to add more to exceed some of the below packages.

Boston Celtics

Players: Derrick White, Robert Williams, and Payton Pritchard (could also include Marcus Smart and Grant Williams)

Picks: 3 UFRPs and 2 swaps

Toronto Raptors

Players: Gary Trent, Precious Achiuwa, Malachi Flynn, and Khem Birch (could also include OG Anunoby and Fred VanVleet)

Picks: 4 UFRPs and 3 swaps

Memphis Grizzlies

Players: Dillon Brooks, Danny Green, Ziaire Williams, and Jake LaRavia (could also include Steven Adams, Desmond Bane, Brandon Clarke, Xavier Tillman, and David Roddy)

Picks: 4 UFRPs, 1 PFRP, and 3 swaps

This is exactly why the Knicks should hold firm. There are few teams who both can beat the Knicks offer and are willing to do so. This is looking more and more like a deal we should just walk away from. If we had not signed Brunson, then Mitchell makes more sense, but I don't see how a 6'1" and 6'2" backcourt is going to work long-term. We would probably have to eventually trade Brunson if we do this Mitchell deal.

If D. Rose ends up missing a lot of games due to injury, or is moved at some point in the season. Grimes might make a good option for backup PG.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:We finally got a young team with chemistry and we going to destroy it for D.Mitch? What if the Brunson / D.Mitch combo doesn’t work? Is the FO prepared to trade Brunson? I doubt you trade D.Mitch. I’m assuming this potential trade can cause a coach or FO to be fired. If it works, they look like geniuses.

So far I approve how Rose is handling Ainge and his ridiculous demands. Stay strong Rose. Pressure is building on both sides everyday.

The reason for Fournier's dip in production since leaving the Magic might be due to his bouncing from team to team since being traded. Being a Knick for more than one season might be what Fournier needs. He still wont put up the same numbers as DM, but it might be enough for Rose to come to the conclusion that the Knicks would be better served holding on to all those picks, and keeping Obi, or whoever the FO would send in a trade.

EF looked good last few months in season. Im not anti grimes at all, but im not ready to hand him the keys unless we are making trades.

Personally, (If I had to chose between Grimes and EF), I rather take a chance on Grimes because of his defense. I also like Grimes catch and shoot abilities (over EF), which fits perfect next to 4 guys that all need the ball to contribute (Brunson, DM, RJ, Randle).

EF is similar to those 4 guys. He said this himself, that he's more than a catch and shoot player, which is great to hear, but not the right fit with this team. Thats why he looked lost sometimes waiting for RJ and Randle to finish dribbling. Eventually he figured it out but in spurts. His defense was still bad. But his offense is not the problem, eventhough it's not a perfect fit (in my opinion), becasue EF can and wants to do more than catch and shoot (Grimes loves it). It's EFs turn-style defense for me. And maybe it looked worse paired up with Kemba. But Brunson also has defensive challenges and Brunson / EF is a bad defensive combination. Thats also why I'm not so high on Brunson / DM, but at least DM can make up for it on offense since the offense will be based on him as the focal point. If our offense was centered around EF, that could work as well.

EF off the bench is why I said it's perfect for his style of play. He like to play with the ball as well, and his offense is more about feel. Off the bench, EF doesn't have to compete with RJ or Randle and he can be the #1 offensive engine next to IQ.

If we are building around 2 inefficient volume shooters (now adding 2 more volume shooters in Brunson and DM), we need to surround them with PURE catch and shoot 3&D players (Not rhythm players like EF). Thats why it worked during Randles huge year. Bullock was more important than some of you guys thought, regardless of how bad he shot in the playoffs. But enough about the old, Grimes is a new version that catch and shoot player we need. And to be successful with this build around RJ and Randle (now Brunson and DM), we need more Grimes 3&D type players.

gradyandrew wrote:Great repost. You have to think the value of Knicks picks is higher than TOR MEM and BOS. Those teams could be highly motivated to make a trade- DM would put those teams right at the top of their conferences. Conversely, it also means their picks would all be at the end of the first round.

Aren’t some of our picks originally owned by teams like Detroit?

Clean wrote:

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This.

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The more I look at RJs shooting, the more I come around to including him in a trade for Mitchell if it means the Knicks can hold on to Grimes and more picks. Rose and RJ for Mitchell works salary wise.

D.Rose are a KEEPER till he retire !!!

We already let a great veteran HOF get away in Jason Kidd !!!

Jason kidd needed how many years before he became a good coach? Does Drose even have such aspirations? Not all good/great veterans are good mentors let alone coaches.

You do know Kidd made the playoffs and got to the second round his first year? And then improved the bucks from 15 to 41 wins his second year?

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Clean wrote:

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Would certainly seem to be the case- no way the lakers pull the trigger on the Beverly trade unless they already had a Westbrook one lined up (plus unlikely Lebron would sign the extension before that's been sorted), the fact they haven't pulled that trigger yet would indicate it's Utah related (probably waiting for the %th/6th September when the Twolves players can be combined.

smackeddog wrote:

Clean wrote:

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Would certainly seem to be the case- no way the lakers pull the trigger on the Beverly trade unless they already had a Westbrook one lined up (plus unlikely Lebron would sign the extension before that's been sorted), the fact they haven't pulled that trigger yet would indicate it's Utah related (probably waiting for the %th/6th September when the Twolves players can be combined.

IMO this means Malik Beasley, he is really the only contract and player of note left, correct?

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The more I look at RJs shooting, the more I come around to including him in a trade for Mitchell if it means the Knicks can hold on to Grimes and more picks. Rose and RJ for Mitchell works salary wise.

D.Rose are a KEEPER till he retire !!!

We already let a great veteran HOF get away in Jason Kidd !!!

Jason kidd needed how many years before he became a good coach? Does Drose even have such aspirations? Not all good/great veterans are good mentors let alone coaches.

You do know Kidd made the playoffs and got to the second round his first year? And then improved the bucks from 15 to 41 wins his second year?

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