Knicks · Knicks in on Mitchell trade (page 5)
Randle is still under contract for 4 more years and Fournier is locked in for 3 (although I believe the last year is a team option). I would rather just keep Mitchell whose contract is just as long as Randles.
I don’t care about his height or his D — I believe he has a big wing span (6’10”?) that is longer than guys like Grimes/Fournier..maybe RJ and I think his D issues in playoffs this year were off-court related to a large degree.
Kid is 25 - elite athlete with a big time ‘ strong body and he is a big spot big time player. Best of all like Brunson I think he wants to be in NY and doesn’t fear the pressure.
You put Mitchell / Brunson together down the stretch and the other team has more worries scoring than we would. Plus a Mitchell would basically allow Brunson similar role he played off/on with Luka last year.
If we can get him for a reasonable deal you do it. If it is some s**t deal like Bobby Marks thru out today just sit tight.
Fine, Mitchell and the fit might not be perfect, but what if it is still pretty damn good? We’re talking about a backcourt of Brunson, who is a ready made leader/player and Donovan Mitchell. The same Mitchell who’s 25 and a 3 time all star. But now the backcourt is too small? Not good enough? Are we sure about that??
Ok fine, let’s wait even longer for that perfect player? And where is that player exactly? And when Does he avail himself? I get not panicking but this isn’t a panic move. This is a 25 year old super star.
I get the slight trepidation but some of you are scared to make a move. And some keep saying that the Knicks would be like the melo days with no chance to improve after this deal. Again, are you sure? Do you know for sure the cap space wouldn’t be there? Prove it. Also, the Knicks were paying Stat and Chandler huge money. Stat got hurt and chandler got old and traded not long after that. And then they wasted more money on Noah. They had money and wasted it with melo. They also had not nearly the same cache of talent that this team has right now. The pre melo Knicks had like 2-3 young chips and not nearly the draft capital this team has today. This team has double the young talent player base as well. Saying this would be melo all over again is fear mongering nonsense not based on any facts.
I guess we’re waiting for mr right. Thought Mitchell was that guy but I guess not anymore….all because we signed a good 25 year old PG who isn’t 6’6?? I guess we’re not ready? Then when are we ready? Where’s that player? He better be better than Mitchell. You sure he is?
If we deal Fournier, IQ, Obi and 4-5 picks for Mitchell we’d be a dangerous and fun team to watch right away and I’d bet there’s cap space to be played with as well. And if RJB earns a big (even bigger) contract we can bird right bird his ass and keep him right here.
You’re telling me this this team can’t shake things up for the next few years??
Brunson - Rose
Mitchell - Grimes
RJB
Randle
Mitch-harts
Deeper Bench - McBride, Cam, Sims and the rest
Again, I get some of the trepidation, but it’s pretty damn tempting nonetheless. Mitchell will ball out here at MSG.
And if Randle was ever able to modify his game just a bit, take what’s given to him, which will be a lot, I truly believe he can be an efficient stud PF. And if that happens this team becomes a big pain in the ass in the East.
doomed wrote:Also, we’ve got too many damn players to begin with. We absolutely need to do a 2 or 3 for 1 type move.If we deal Fournier, IQ, Obi and 4-5 picks for Mitchell we’d be a dangerous and fun team to watch right away and I’d bet there’s cap space to be played with as well. And if RJB earns a big (even bigger) contract we can bird right bird his ass and keep him right here.
You’re telling me this this team can’t shake things up for the next few years??
Brunson - Rose
Mitchell - Grimes
RJB
Randle
Mitch-hartsDeeper Bench - McBride, Cam, Sims and the rest
Again, I get some of the trepidation, but it’s pretty damn tempting nonetheless. Mitchell will ball out here at MSG.
And if Randle was ever able to modify his game just a bit, take what’s given to him, which will be a lot, I truly believe he can be an efficient stud PF. And if that happens this team becomes a big pain in the ass in the East.
You’re going to look at someone in the face and say “Yeah I think Utah would accept EF, IQ and Obi and mediocre pics for Spider. Go right ahead?”
With that, I can Imagine how Ainge doesn’t believe you can go deep with a lumbering big man. Based on the Celtics, he thinks the way is through versatile interchangeable athletic wings that can play PF in a pinch.
I don’t think his ideal players are on the Knicks. I can see him being interested in Quickley, RJ, and possibly Obi. He’d see them as the make-shift featured players, but would think that the player that would lead them is not yet in the NBA - the key guy will come in one of his draft picks.
With regard to the Knicks, Mitchell’s a fantastic dominant player, the modern day Iverson. He creates mismatches both good and bad.
He’s problematic because he’s sized like a PG. it’d be tough to play with with Brunson for long stretches as they could be exploited in a number of ways.
You ideally want to find him his Eric Snow, and that guy may not be in the Knicks roster.
doomed wrote:Also, we’ve got too many damn players to begin with. We absolutely need to do a 2 or 3 for 1 type move.If we deal Fournier, IQ, Obi and 4-5 picks for Mitchell we’d be a dangerous and fun team to watch right away and I’d bet there’s cap space to be played with as well. And if RJB earns a big (even bigger) contract we can bird right bird his ass and keep him right here.
You’re telling me this this team can’t shake things up for the next few years??
Brunson - Rose
Mitchell - Grimes
RJB
Randle
Mitch-hartsDeeper Bench - McBride, Cam, Sims and the rest
Again, I get some of the trepidation, but it’s pretty damn tempting nonetheless. Mitchell will ball out here at MSG.
And if Randle was ever able to modify his game just a bit, take what’s given to him, which will be a lot, I truly believe he can be an efficient stud PF. And if that happens this team becomes a big pain in the ass in the East.
Let's be clear about a few things - the Jazz don't want long-term deals so that really eliminates Randle, Fournier and anyone else that we would likely prefer to dump to Utah. So we're really looking at IQ, Obi, Cam, Grimes, Sims and possibly RJ. I truly believe one of these players will show serious promise and take a big step with us - not sure which but it's reasonable to play the odds and give them some time. If I had to part with some of these young players - it would go in the order of IQ, Cam, Sims and I would draw the line with Grimes and Obi as I believe their skill-set would need to stay here if we did land Donovan.
So while most would welcome Mitchell in a reasonable trade and most would be fine with giving up a lot of picks - you're likely left with Brunson, Mitchell, RJ, Randle, Mitch as your starting group. Your bench is Rose, McBride, Fournier, Hartenstein, Hunt, Keels and whoever we keep in summer league or the Jazz dump back to us. So once the deal is done we've lost 4-5 1st round picks and IQ, Toppin, Grimes, Cam, etc... do you really believe we are any closer then the Jazz were and if not - are we really left with enough picks/future to move the needle going forward?
I don't believe we are and have concerns about the smallish backcourt which will score well but be too undersized defensively. RJ is decent at defense, Randle slightly worse, Brunson not great, Mitchell not great... only Mitch is really above average defensively so we'd be a very different team IMO. If we stand pat and let the youth develop there is a chance that one of the young player develops and we have more options. I suspect Grimes will be a starter and a Bullock-like replacement (solid defense, knock down shooter). RJ would have to take a step with efficiency and capturing the leadership/spirit of this team. Expecting Randle to be here temporarily honestly - and believe a combination of Toppin and Cam can hold down the 4 spot together. IQ may just be that perfect combo guard off the bench but he has great chemistry with Obi and picks up the pace in a way we definitely need. For this to work it has to be a chess approach where we leave ourselves continued options for several moves down the line. I don't see it here unless we would relocate Brunson later this season so Mitchell and RJ could share the backcourt. Would prefer we keep 6 picks, 4 decent young bench players and not have the smallest backcourt in the league.
Allanfan20 wrote:doomed wrote:Also, we’ve got too many damn players to begin with. We absolutely need to do a 2 or 3 for 1 type move.If we deal Fournier, IQ, Obi and 4-5 picks for Mitchell we’d be a dangerous and fun team to watch right away and I’d bet there’s cap space to be played with as well. And if RJB earns a big (even bigger) contract we can bird right bird his ass and keep him right here.
You’re telling me this this team can’t shake things up for the next few years??
Brunson - Rose
Mitchell - Grimes
RJB
Randle
Mitch-hartsDeeper Bench - McBride, Cam, Sims and the rest
Again, I get some of the trepidation, but it’s pretty damn tempting nonetheless. Mitchell will ball out here at MSG.
And if Randle was ever able to modify his game just a bit, take what’s given to him, which will be a lot, I truly believe he can be an efficient stud PF. And if that happens this team becomes a big pain in the ass in the East.
You’re going to look at someone in the face and say “Yeah I think Utah would accept EF, IQ and Obi and mediocre pics for Spider. Go right ahead?”
Fine, add more.
Im not really excited about the small backcourt of Jalen and Donavan but with Mitchell's 6'10" wingspan combined with being coached by Thibs and reunited with Johnny Bryant maybe it wont be that bad on the defensive end. Coming out of college,Mitchell was a decent defense player, maybe he can be able to harness that again.
C: Mitchell Robinson .
PF: Julius Randle.
SF: R.J. Barrett.
SG: Donovan Mitchell.
PG: Jalen Brunson.
6th man: Obi Toppin.
To build around this type of extremely young but yet talented core would become a pipe dream.
Yes.
I'd love to keep Grimes and IQ too but sometimes you've gotta give to receive.
houston20 wrote:I think the trade will be grimes,mcbride,cam,fournier,rose, 2023 knicks probably unproctected,2023 dallas pick, 2023 washington pick, 2025 bucks pick, 2025 piston pick.
I think Utah's asking price will be a lot steeper. They got 3 unprotected picks, a pick swap and a bunch of players for Gobert. You are considering 1 unprotected pick, 4 protected picks and a bunch of players for Mitchell. Gobert is not a cornerstone, is older and is saddled by a massive contract, which is why Minny was probably able to get away with giving up mostly picks.
I would be greatly surprised if Utah was willing to start any conversation that did not include RJ. From our end, I would be fint trading RJ and not a lot of picks, or lots of picks but not RJ for Mitchell. But I doubt there is a deal like that out there.
I just hope our readiness to trade RJ does not backfire in our contract renewal talks with him. Makes it a bit tougher to agree to a discount to show loyalty to a team that has just tried trading you.
With this starting 5 this team can grow together for the next 10 years! How crazy is that. Please make this happen, the knicks can have a young promising team, you can't say that about the knicks in years!
Jimbo5 wrote:There were reports that the knicks are not willing to include RJ in any trade the fact that the talks advanced to the framework stage seems good news. Jazz are ok not to get RJ, they need to find a home for Randle if the knicks land Mitchell. A team with Brunson, Mitchell, RJ and Randle is a recipe for failure, too many players who want the ball in their hands. Im hoping the knicks 5 for the start of the season will be will be Brunson, Mitchell, RJ, Obi and Mitch.With this starting 5 this team can grow together for the next 10 years! How crazy is that. Please make this happen, the knicks can have a young promising team, you can't say that about the knicks in years!
Agree - maybe they send Randle out elsewhere to find a stretch 4. Here's an example I made up that I think I could live with (even though prefer to stand pat if it means giving up too many young players).
IQ, Obi, Cam, D.Rose (expiring) and 4-5 picks (1 unprotected) for Donovan and Xavier Sneed
Randle to Cleveland for Lauri Markkanen and Osman
Again - prefer to stand pat but besides the defensive problems with two small guards - not sure how Donovan, RJ and Randle would all work together getting their touches. Realistically you want 2 primary shot creators and while Lauri has been defensively challenged - he is a better fit as he doesn't command the ball and would camp out by the 3 pt line wheras Randle would dribble, dribble, etc...
newyorknewyork wrote:Kind of off topic but OG Annuoby may be the smarter play. Will cost way less assets and would really really improve the team. While still setting the team up for another big play if presented due to the remaining assets and team success.
I think the Raptors are a better fit for D-Mitch, if they strike out on KD, why not OG and Trent plus picks for D-Mitch. Don't know why Raptors don't swoop in and try that.
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So much leaking of this from the Jazz, can't work out if their motivation is:
-lure Dolan into getting sweaty and wanting to intervene a la the Melo trade
-get the fans and media to pressure Rose into giving up more
-they know the Heat or Raptors are close to landing KD and think the market/competition for D-Mitch suddenly drops with those teams out of the mix (in terms of teams he actually wants to go to), so Utah want to get it done now
-they really would rather trade him to another team and are just using us and the media to get another team to up their offer
-Ainge tactic in traded is to make teams think a deal is close so he can just keep upping his demands (all those trades where the Celtics were linked as being close to pulling them off- it's what he does, other GMs used to declare they were done dealing with Ainge because he annoyed them so much with BS trade talks)
-it genuinely is close to happening
I just hope we set a price and they can take it or leave it, I'm not passionate either way as long as we don't overpay. the fit worries me with D-Mitch- both next to Brunson and even the rest of the roster, especially if you give up Fournier and Grimes- lose defense in Grimes and shooting from both of them, when that's what you need with Mitch and Brunson.
houston20 wrote:I think the trade will be grimes,mcbride,cam,fournier,rose, 2023 knicks probably unproctected,2023 dallas pick, 2023 washington pick, 2025 bucks pick, 2025 piston pick.
I would make that trade but thee is no way in hell the Jazz will take that. They will want at least 3 unprotected Knicks picks plus all of the picks gained in trades. The franchise is a dumpster fire and they know there is a good chance they will get 3 high picks. The Knicks should not make a deal like that. It will bury the franchise for a 2nd round exit.
WE don’t know the nature of the discussions or Leons tactics. That we signed Brunson and still have the capital for a big trade is something knicks are not often in a position.
Is this the player we should be using our capital on? Are we the 3rd team that ends up with Durant?
doomed wrote:Serious question: if we aren’t going all in on Mitchell, if not now, then when??Fine, Mitchell and the fit might not be perfect, but what if it is still pretty damn good? We’re talking about a backcourt of Brunson, who is a ready made leader/player and Donovan Mitchell. The same Mitchell who’s 25 and a 3 time all star. But now the backcourt is too small? Not good enough? Are we sure about that??
Ok fine, let’s wait even longer for that perfect player? And where is that player exactly? And when Does he avail himself? I get not panicking but this isn’t a panic move. This is a 25 year old super star.
I get the slight trepidation but some of you are scared to make a move. And some keep saying that the Knicks would be like the melo days with no chance to improve after this deal. Again, are you sure? Do you know for sure the cap space wouldn’t be there? Prove it. Also, the Knicks were paying Stat and Chandler huge money. Stat got hurt and chandler got old and traded not long after that. And then they wasted more money on Noah. They had money and wasted it with melo. They also had not nearly the same cache of talent that this team has right now. The pre melo Knicks had like 2-3 young chips and not nearly the draft capital this team has today. This team has double the young talent player base as well. Saying this would be melo all over again is fear mongering nonsense not based on any facts.
I guess we’re waiting for mr right. Thought Mitchell was that guy but I guess not anymore….all because we signed a good 25 year old PG who isn’t 6’6?? I guess we’re not ready? Then when are we ready? Where’s that player? He better be better than Mitchell. You sure he is?
These are the players that 6 months ago you wouldn't have thought would be on the market: Donovan, KD, Kyrie, Gobert, DeJounte. Also, Harden, Ben Simmons, Jerami Grant.
I guess the better question is who hasn't availed themselves?