fishmike wrote:if you make a trade for a player that is going to include a ton of picks you need to make sure you have close to the structure of a team that can compete for a title.We will not be that team structured around Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle
BUT
Knicks/MSG isnt really about titles these days, its about being relevant again and that team will accomplish that.
Watching a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt defend every night is gonna wear really thin really fast on this fanbase. Randle will be the happiest dude in town. He'll right "told ya" on his shoes 
Doesn't make sense if that's the only move, but as a starting point, maybe- I suppose, if you can do the deal as a pick heavy one, without giving up RJ and Cam, and dump Randle and or Fournier (either in this or separately), you could then see if the Raptors would do RJ for OG Anunoby (who I think is over rated but a better fit). That would then give you a base of:
PG- Brunson
SG- D-Mitch (Maybe IQ?)
SF- OG Anunoby (maybe Grimes?)
PF- Cam (maybe Obi?)
C- Mitch, Hartenstein, Sims
Suddenly that makes more sense- you have the small backcourt, but the rest of the roster is flanked with two (hopefully) 3-d players, who can shoot and are lengthy defenders (if Cam develops), plus defensive C's who can catch lobs and block shots and defend the paint. Plumpen the bench over the next two seasons, then see if you can make another trade to upgrade one of the forward spots.
franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!
I kinda agree- but.
Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?
So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.
We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.
Agree! If it's going to happen and we have the ability to keep Grimes out of the deal - he's fit the best with the remaining roster and need for outside shooting. Love Toppin and IQ but IQ wouldn't have as many minutes anyway if Brunson, Mitchell and Rose are still here. Would love to keep Obi as think Randle is still not long for this team. Ideally we could send Rose and keep IQ but regardless Fournier and Grimes overlap in skill sets at the moment. Hearing Utah doesn't want long-term salary so that's why I think Rose has a chance to be part of this package since I believe he is expiring at end of the season.
I predict it will be Rose + Toppin + Grimes + Cam + McBride + 5 1st rounders and 2 pick swaps for Donovan (unless they expand deal). I would totally pass but sadly believe we are past that point.
franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!
I kinda agree- but.
Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?
So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.
We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.
Plus who knew Tatum was going to breakout the way he did these playoffs- you never really know who's going to take that next step until they do, at which point good luck in acquiring them!
CleaverGreene wrote:fishmike wrote:Chandler wrote:
Any of the basketball savants here know when guys like MJ, Kobe, Steph and Klay started putting it fully together giving their all on both ends of the court? 25ish sounds rightif we do this we have to be sold that Donovan is still ascending. His defensive numbers are regressing though. SO we need to be sold that might be attitudinal as opposed to something else and that THibs can get the guy in his best shape to play elite at both ends like all the great ones have
I agree. He's a 25 yo 3x all star. I mean for the "HES NOT A FRANCHISE PLAYER" crowd wtf does one look like? He's an impact player and its not really up for discussion. Even though he and Brunson are small and a seemingly bad fit its on us to try it out and make it work. Figure Obi/Grimes/Fournier/Cam for Mitchell with the Knicks giving up draft comp as well...
Feron Hunt suddenly becomes a needed role player. Rotation would look something like this:
Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle/Mitch
bench: Rose/IQ/Hunt/Sims/Hart
Hart doesnt clog the post so I think Sims can play plenty of 4 with Hart there to space him. Hunt for size/defensive and Rose/IQ are self explanatory. McBride is Rose's backup.
I mean that is a REALLY good young team worth working on and developing chemistry.
So you think Utah would make the trade without getting Barrett? I'm assuming he will be part of the trade.
I don't see why they want Barret. If Barrett were lets say slam dunk max contract and Ainge were sold on RJ as a player then yes they'd want him -- but that's not the case
Instead, RJ's contract value is unclear. DOes AInge want RJ and then have to sort that out especially if he's not prepared to offer RJ max and RJ getting pissed. too risky
also adding rj means less picks which is what ainge really wants. If Ainge wanted quality players he'd keep DOnovan who is only 25 and entering his prime. Or he'd probably deal with Miami
He might want Randle with an eye to rehabbing his game and flipping him for more assets fown the road.
I suspect ainge wants Grimes more than Barrett
personally im a big RJ fan but i understand the fanbase with concerns
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Hoping that Mitchell has already told Jazz he wants NY but they are in agreement to execute deal behind the scene so not as to kill his overall trade value. Basically Jazz say - ok we will work with NY if you don’t go public with this demand.This places NY in better position and both teams reach a reasonable deal.
Flip side is we are being used as leverage and another front runner team will sneak in and steal him. Could see some big 4 team deal go down excluding Knicks as usual
I guess they forgot to tell Donovan to stop hanging out in NY with IQ and stop wearing all of the NY gear or hanging out at Mets games 
NO DROPPING HINTS!!
Good point - though in my defense we still haven’t seen the KD like media update saying D Mitchell has requested a trade and preferred destination is NY.
But yes Donovan dropping hints all over NY —— still worry Knicks can close deal even on an overpay (which I don’t want).
MS wrote:They are definitely doing a deal. It's going to Fournier, Toppin, Grimes, Quickly and 4 first rounders. Have no confidence in these guys to execute a good trade.
Ainge is going to rip there face off. If 5 first rounders is what he got from a good GM in Minnesota, it's time to worry.
I don’t feel like Knicks will include 1) Obi or 2) Quick but what do I know
jskinny35 wrote:franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!
I kinda agree- but.
Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?
So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.
We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.
Agree! If it's going to happen and we have the ability to keep Grimes out of the deal - he's fit the best with the remaining roster and need for outside shooting. Love Toppin and IQ but IQ wouldn't have as many minutes anyway if Brunson, Mitchell and Rose are still here. Would love to keep Obi as think Randle is still not long for this team. Ideally we could send Rose and keep IQ but regardless Fournier and Grimes overlap in skill sets at the moment. Hearing Utah doesn't want long-term salary so that's why I think Rose has a chance to be part of this package since I believe he is expiring at end of the season.
I predict it will be Rose + Toppin + Grimes + Cam + McBride + 5 1st rounders and 2 pick swaps for Donovan (unless they expand deal). I would totally pass but sadly believe we are past that point.
Just no way. You don't and can't trade your full bench for 1 player. It just doesn't make sense.
If we trade Grimes it will be a mistake. Mitchell is not a two way player and Brunson-Mitchell backcourt is going to be our weak point. I don't see why we would want to do this trade. This is Carmelo all over again but this time we are giving up an even better player in Grimes than anyone we let go for Carmelo. Mitchell in n his prime is < Melo
CleaverGreene wrote:fishmike wrote:Chandler wrote:
Any of the basketball savants here know when guys like MJ, Kobe, Steph and Klay started putting it fully together giving their all on both ends of the court? 25ish sounds rightif we do this we have to be sold that Donovan is still ascending. His defensive numbers are regressing though. SO we need to be sold that might be attitudinal as opposed to something else and that THibs can get the guy in his best shape to play elite at both ends like all the great ones have
I agree. He's a 25 yo 3x all star. I mean for the "HES NOT A FRANCHISE PLAYER" crowd wtf does one look like? He's an impact player and its not really up for discussion. Even though he and Brunson are small and a seemingly bad fit its on us to try it out and make it work. Figure Obi/Grimes/Fournier/Cam for Mitchell with the Knicks giving up draft comp as well...
Feron Hunt suddenly becomes a needed role player. Rotation would look something like this:
Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle/Mitch
bench: Rose/IQ/Hunt/Sims/Hart
Hart doesnt clog the post so I think Sims can play plenty of 4 with Hart there to space him. Hunt for size/defensive and Rose/IQ are self explanatory. McBride is Rose's backup.
I mean that is a REALLY good young team worth working on and developing chemistry.
So you think Utah would make the trade without getting Barrett? I'm assuming he will be part of the trade.
Dont think I do it with RJ included. Its just too much. Doesnt get us where we need to go.
MS wrote:They are definitely doing a deal. It's going to Fournier, Toppin, Grimes, Quickly and 4 first rounders. Have no confidence in these guys to execute a good trade.
Ainge is going to rip there face off. If 5 first rounders is what he got from a good GM in Minnesota, it's time to worry.
when have they executed a bad one?
We've got a lot of young guys starved for minutes. Consolidating talent makes sense. I get it, but the cost post-Gobert trade makes me uneasy. RJ is a deal breaker, cannot include him. If you manage to keep Quick out of the trade, that's a win. But the sheer number of picks being thrown out there are a killer.
Gun to my head, I balk.
smackeddog wrote:franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!
I kinda agree- but.
Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?
So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.
We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.
Plus who knew Tatum was going to breakout the way he did these playoffs- you never really know who's going to take that next step until they do, at which point good luck in acquiring them!
Booker was another... just a chucker then suddenly he's a premier scorer
martin wrote:jskinny35 wrote:franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!
I kinda agree- but.
Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?
So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.
We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.
Agree! If it's going to happen and we have the ability to keep Grimes out of the deal - he's fit the best with the remaining roster and need for outside shooting. Love Toppin and IQ but IQ wouldn't have as many minutes anyway if Brunson, Mitchell and Rose are still here. Would love to keep Obi as think Randle is still not long for this team. Ideally we could send Rose and keep IQ but regardless Fournier and Grimes overlap in skill sets at the moment. Hearing Utah doesn't want long-term salary so that's why I think Rose has a chance to be part of this package since I believe he is expiring at end of the season.
I predict it will be Rose + Toppin + Grimes + Cam + McBride + 5 1st rounders and 2 pick swaps for Donovan (unless they expand deal). I would totally pass but sadly believe we are past that point.
Just no way. You don't and can't trade your full bench for 1 player. It just doesn't make sense.
I don't disagree with you. I don't want to make this kind of trade. When I put in various combinations considering Ainge doesn't want to take on long-term salary - it lessened the chances of Fournier (who would rather trade) or Randle (pipedream) being the main salary part. Keep reading they like Grimes as well. I really hope they set their terms and will stick to it. I think some of us have past-trade trauma that makes us nervous. I think even with acquiring Donovan our backcourt would be too small and I would then hope the FO pivoted to moving Randle and Brunson to retool around Mitchell, RJ and whoever is left. Won't happen but can dream.
If I were GM and I really wanted to make this trade - my absolute limit would be
A) Fournier, Rose, Cam and maybe McBride + 4 1st rounders (1 unprotected)
or
B) RJ and Fournier + 3 1st rounders (2 unprotected)
or
C) Randle, Cam and McBride + 3 1st rounders (2 unprotected)
Then I'd tell Ainge to piss off before he hung up on me.
MaTT4281 wrote:We've got a lot of young guys starved for minutes. Consolidating talent makes sense. I get it, but the cost post-Gobert trade makes me uneasy. RJ is a deal breaker, cannot include him. If you manage to keep Quick out of the trade, that's a win. But the sheer number of picks being thrown out there are a killer. Gun to my head, I balk.
I would guess that’s where Rose is on this and that they’ve pushed back from the table to let Ainge go try and find himself a better offer. I suspect this is the last we’ve heard about this until next week.
MaTT4281 wrote:We've got a lot of young guys starved for minutes. Consolidating talent makes sense. I get it, but the cost post-Gobert trade makes me uneasy. RJ is a deal breaker, cannot include him. If you manage to keep Quick out of the trade, that's a win. But the sheer number of picks being thrown out there are a killer. Gun to my head, I balk.
I'd prefer to move Quick than Grimes.
jaydh wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:We've got a lot of young guys starved for minutes. Consolidating talent makes sense. I get it, but the cost post-Gobert trade makes me uneasy. RJ is a deal breaker, cannot include him. If you manage to keep Quick out of the trade, that's a win. But the sheer number of picks being thrown out there are a killer. Gun to my head, I balk.
I'd prefer to move Quick than Grimes.
Same as IQ won't have much available minutes with Brunson, Mitchell and D.Rose still here (+ possibly even McBride). Wonder how IQ would feel hanging with Donovan the past few weeks and then being sent to Utah for him... hope this trade doesn't happen.
So a lot of chit chat going on but I haven’t seen much in the way of a *practical* hypothetical exchange that takes into account salary cap issues. The Knicks have pretty much shed the salary they can to get Brunson. So what’s left is Randle whom I can’t see the Jazz taking on. So possibly Fournier? But he still has a few years left and his salary alone isn’t enough. Perhaps as mentioned they think they could flip him but you then start adding Mitch, Sims, even RJ - plus unprotected picks?
Just can’t see it.
KnickDanger wrote:So a lot of chit chat going on but I haven’t seen much in the way of a *practical* hypothetical exchange that takes into account salary cap issues. The Knicks have pretty much shed the salary they can to get Brunson. So what’s left is Randle whom I can’t see the Jazz taking on. So possibly Fournier? But he still has a few years left and his salary alone isn’t enough. Perhaps as mentioned they think they could flip him but you then start adding Mitch, Sims, even RJ - plus unprotected picks?Just can’t see it.
I think Fournier is the main contract. Either reddish or Toppin in addition works salary wise. That’s sort of the baseline as far as outgoing players.
