Knicks · Is D-Mitch The Guy? (page 2)

Ainge really can't wait, pressure is on him. He wants to tank with picks. Mitchell can win games without gobert. Ainge doesn't want to win. So, let him wait and move on if needed.

NYStateOfMind wrote:Ainge really can't wait, pressure is on him. He wants to yank with picks. Mitchell can win games without gobert. Ainge doesn't want to win. So, let him wait and move on if needed.

Many takes. Over rely on Mitchell and dress it up so he looks good for the Allstar game. over use can lead to an injury and if so he screws the pooch.
My hope is if we get him and still have a nice core we don’t do the same and lower injury probability.
I don’t know of the picks Ainge covets how many are ours and if any sticking points on protections.

Adding in two new starters and changing roles for all I would not be surprised we start slow for a while.

I think Spider is a 'Robin' but there aren't a lot of true 'Batmans' in the league. I'm down with getting Spider as long as it's a fair trade.

It’s a team driven sport now and less star driven than 10-20 years ago. You need a young athletic roster with depth like the Celtics. Trading 4-5 first round picks plus half the roster for Mitchell makes no sense

Btw, Mitchell has a documented concussion problem. He’s had like 3-4 known concussions already and last I checked he plays a full contact sport with 82 games per year

Is he the guy for what? He is not the final piece, I don't think. Is he a franchise player? He isn't. Could he potentially grow into one? That's really the question. Although Melo clearly was The Guy. I wonder why it didn't work with him.

We CANNOT give up all our youth and picks for Mitchell. If he was a 25 year old Kobe or Jordan or Lebron then fine but Mitchell is not at that level and likely never will be otherwise why would Ainge be looking to trade him. They could just come up with a fake injury and sit him for half the season and lose games and then come back strong next season. Clearly, Danny Ainge sees his limitations and is trying to sell high. Knicks must keep either Toppin or Grimes, and they must not trade more than 4 picks and maybe one pick swap.

ramtour420 wrote:Is he the guy for what? He is not the final piece, I don't think. Is he a franchise player? He isn't. Could he potentially grow into one? That's really the question. Although Melo clearly was The Guy. I wonder why it didn't work with him.

Melo’s playmaking and willingness to trust teammates held him back. However he was a very dominant scorer.

This is the guy. He is 25 and can still grow into a true #1 on a contender. Barrett can still grow into a #2. Brunson is there and Randle we will see if he can adjust his role. We know he can be great in a lesser role. The starting 5 would be set for the foreseeable future. All young guys who are ascending. The key is who is left as far as development on the bench.

The ceiling on RJ is not known. He could be the no. 1 guy. Or not.
The trade market likely is higher than Gobert. Durant is much older and an all time great so it could be close to equal. He will be 34 by the start of the season. Donovan is listed at 6-3, and will be 26 also in September. 8 years difference.

Donvan has the Playoff gear. He shines.
Has he ever played with as much firepower as would be Brunson, RJ, Randle (20pts)? MRob is not quite Rudy but offensively similar.
Thus, can Donovan take it up one more notch?
Is this a championship team? Since Brunson is now a big part of the core its hard to say.
That RJ and Randle played most of last year without a PG is interesting. Especially Randle. Is that a big thing vs. the season before where he was all NBA?
Are we to believe once we do this trade we have nothing ever to trade or draft with?

Im easy here. If it happens, I’ll be locked in. If not, No difference.
ONly seems right that we trade for Luka given he is a “MaverKnick”. He won’t recruit and Dallas might have peaked for the next few years. Spitball.

Quality of picks knicks can offer. ITs not just our picks and swaps. It’s the quality of what we have or not of other teams. The Milwaukee pick, The Dallas pick, Washington, etc. Then ours. Also we need not give them all away just because we have them.
The genius of any trade, or not is the unobvious. The shit we can’t see or how it actually plays out.

Both the chemistry of players and coach, how good the yoot we send off, and how the picks convert over time. Or not.
I’d say that knicks get last dibs?

Donovan has been very quiet. We don’t know if he asked for a trade or this is on Ainge/Ownership. No doubt utah dangled it out so its gonna happen at some point. Im sure their war room is a buzz with scenarios of potential. The landscape is maddening with Durant, Kylie and with Ayton off the grid the pieces are incredible. Fun offseason for sure.

TheGame wrote:

TPercy wrote:Mitchell got hard diffed by Brunson and isn’t a good fit here. I’d pass tbh and just see what RJ Grimes and Reddish can do.

I agree. For what Utah is asking, I would pass on him until the price comes down. I would put an offer on the table of Toppin, Fournier, and maybe Reddish, and 4 1st round picks. If Utah can find a better deal, then so be it. Mitchell has too many flaws to trade our whole team away for him.

That's the same max trade I'd endorse. Ainge wants the picks most of all, so he can't have Grimes, too.

Moonangie wrote:

TheGame wrote:

TPercy wrote:Mitchell got hard diffed by Brunson and isn’t a good fit here. I’d pass tbh and just see what RJ Grimes and Reddish can do.

I agree. For what Utah is asking, I would pass on him until the price comes down. I would put an offer on the table of Toppin, Fournier, and maybe Reddish, and 4 1st round picks. If Utah can find a better deal, then so be it. Mitchell has too many flaws to trade our whole team away for him.

That's the same max trade I'd endorse. Ainge wants the picks most of all, so he can't have Grimes, too.

I’d agree. For me I think if Drose is still here I think IQ has a higher trade value and we need Obi. Especially if Cam is going. At the same time I believe Grimes holds great trade value given his contract and can be a player for UTAH as they transition. I don’t see a clear role for him unless its off the bench here with Donovan.
I dont’t go more than 4 picks and I don’t like the swaps. Utah can retool quickly and I’d hate if we find ourselves with injury or misfortune we can’t draft out of it.

My take is a deal if done will be a bit Squamish for most of us until its proven on the court.

Nalod wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

TheGame wrote:

TPercy wrote:Mitchell got hard diffed by Brunson and isn’t a good fit here. I’d pass tbh and just see what RJ Grimes and Reddish can do.

I agree. For what Utah is asking, I would pass on him until the price comes down. I would put an offer on the table of Toppin, Fournier, and maybe Reddish, and 4 1st round picks. If Utah can find a better deal, then so be it. Mitchell has too many flaws to trade our whole team away for him.

That's the same max trade I'd endorse. Ainge wants the picks most of all, so he can't have Grimes, too.

I’d agree. For me I think if Drose is still here I think IQ has a higher trade value and we need Obi. Especially if Cam is going. At the same time I believe Grimes holds great trade value given his contract and can be a player for UTAH as they transition. I don’t see a clear role for him unless its off the bench here with Donovan.
I dont’t go more than 4 picks and I don’t like the swaps. Utah can retool quickly and I’d hate if we find ourselves with injury or misfortune we can’t draft out of it.

My take is a deal if done will be a bit Squamish for most of us until its proven on the court.

I think it will take a minimum of 5 to get this deal done. Ainge is looking for a 'historical' package' and Leon obviously doesn't want that. Five or six picks would be the compromise. Assuming Cam, Grimes and Fournier (for salary reasons) are dealt, the team's wing depth could be severely depleted. Julius might have to actually play the wing! I like Spida, but the trade makes less sense the more I think about it.

Just wait for Lebron

TPercy wrote:Just wait for LebronLebron's son.

BigDaddyG wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just wait for LebronLebron's son.

We will have both

TPercy wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just wait for LebronLebron's son.

We will have both

In a few years Melo's son will be draft eligible. They'll be scared then. Bronny and Melo's son in the backcourt, Melon and Lebron at the forward spots... Title run guaranteed 🤡

We have Rick Brunson’s son!

The Knicks rotation now is:

Brunson Rose
RJ IQ
Grimes Fournier
Randle Toppin
Robinson Hartenstein

Reddish Sims Deuce Hunt are the presumable injury replacements.

Since Brunson will play more and have higher usage than Payton, Kemba, and Burks so one of Rose Fournier Grimes and IQ likely gets squeezed for minutes. That makes one of them under used.

Looking at Utah's post trade cap, almost everyone expires this season or next. Evan Fournier 4th year is a club option, making it inline with most of Utah's other deals.

Robinson Randle RJ (extension) Brunson all extend beyond 2 years so I think not acceptable for Utah.

Point number one for a trade is whether to include Rose or Fournier as salary ballast or both to expand the deal. Let's say Utah agrees to Fournier because they think they can draft fellow Frenchman Wembanya.

Knicks rotation is now:

Brunson Rose
Mitchell
RJ
Randle
Robinson Hartenstein

Rose Brunson and Mitchell ideally play a 3 guard rotation in the playoffs. As the backup 2/3/4 I think Cam Reddish and Grimes have the highest upside of the two. IQ and Obi look expendable and also will hit RFA in line with Utah's timeline, the first of 3 years when they only keep their picks in the top 10.

Fournier IQ Obi are a relatively painless way to balance a trade straight up for Mitchell. Now comes additional draft compensation.

Knicks should first hold fast to those 3 already being decent value. Obi and IQs rookie deals are both valuable and higher value than any of the contracts they got back from Minnesota.

Utah is apparently all in on Wembanya, that makes an unprotected pick for 2023 probably the most valuable to the Jazz. The uncertainty of the Knicks play next season also increases its value.

Since Utah's next 3 picks after 2023 are top 10 protected, pick swaps are difficult. The 2025 pick will also be valuable for Utah.

Fournier Obi IQ, 2023, 2025 picks.

Knicks could still trade additional assets like their heavily protected picks from other teams or the Milwaukee pick. I'd say the 24 and 26 picks or pick swaps should be nonstarters. The Knicks could trade the first of the Dallas Detroit or Washington pick that converts and Milwaukee's pick.

The total haul being Fournier Obi IQ 2023, 2025 Knicks, and most likely the Dallas and Milwaukee picks. The Knicks rotation would be:

Brunson Rose
Mitchell Grimes
RJ Reddish
Randle Melo (get signing)
Robinson Hartenstein

gradyandrew wrote:The Knicks rotation now is:

Brunson Rose
RJ IQ
Grimes Fournier
Randle Toppin
Robinson Hartenstein

Reddish Sims Deuce Hunt are the presumable injury replacements.

Since Brunson will play more and have higher usage than Payton, Kemba, and Burks so one of Rose Fournier Grimes and IQ likely gets squeezed for minutes. That makes one of them under used.

Looking at Utah's post trade cap, almost everyone expires this season or next. Evan Fournier 4th year is a club option, making it inline with most of Utah's other deals.

Robinson Randle RJ (extension) Brunson all extend beyond 2 years so I think not acceptable for Utah.

Point number one for a trade is whether to include Rose or Fournier as salary ballast or both to expand the deal. Let's say Utah agrees to Fournier because they think they can draft fellow Frenchman Wembanya.

Knicks rotation is now:

Brunson Rose
Mitchell
RJ
Randle
Robinson Hartenstein

Rose Brunson and Mitchell ideally play a 3 guard rotation in the playoffs. As the backup 2/3/4 I think Cam Reddish and Grimes have the highest upside of the two. IQ and Obi look expendable and also will hit RFA in line with Utah's timeline, the first of 3 years when they only keep their picks in the top 10.

Fournier IQ Obi are a relatively painless way to balance a trade straight up for Mitchell. Now comes additional draft compensation.

Knicks should first hold fast to those 3 already being decent value. Obi and IQs rookie deals are both valuable and higher value than any of the contracts they got back from Minnesota.

Utah is apparently all in on Wembanya, that makes an unprotected pick for 2023 probably the most valuable to the Jazz. The uncertainty of the Knicks play next season also increases its value.

Since Utah's next 3 picks after 2023 are top 10 protected, pick swaps are difficult. The 2025 pick will also be valuable for Utah.

Fournier Obi IQ, 2023, 2025 picks.

Knicks could still trade additional assets like their heavily protected picks from other teams or the Milwaukee pick. I'd say the 24 and 26 picks or pick swaps should be nonstarters. The Knicks could trade the first of the Dallas Detroit or Washington pick that converts and Milwaukee's pick.

The total haul being Fournier Obi IQ 2023, 2025 Knicks, and most likely the Dallas and Milwaukee picks. The Knicks rotation would be:

Brunson Rose
Mitchell Grimes
RJ Reddish
Randle Melo (get signing)
Robinson Hartenstein

I am not saying your analysis is wrong, but trading the two guys that made up the units with a positive +/- kind of hurts.

Fournier, McBride, Grimes, Reddish and some picks works for me.

Brunson Rokas Rose
Mitchell IQ
RJ
Randle Toppin Melo
Robinson Hartenstein Sims

Leaves a space to fill at SF.

Here is my take. I have been back and forth on this but I think I am ready to commit to Grimes long term and see if he can be a long term starter on an eventual contender of a team. I see him as a better option than DM because his d is better and his 3 point percentage is better as well. He is our version of Bullock with a higher ceiling. Even if we can get DM and keep Grimes it's not worth it. I'd rather keep the assets to move up in the draft or simply to develop, even team depth is more important. SG is not a position of need. Neither is PG.