Knicks · Is D-Mitch The Guy? (page 3)

Here is my take. I have been back and forth on this but I think I am ready to commit to Grimes long term and see if he can be a long term starter on an eventual contender of a team. I see him as a better option than DM because his d is better and his 3 point percentage is better as well. He is our version of Bullock with a higher ceiling. Even if we can get DM and keep Grimes it's not worth it. I'd rather keep the assets to move up in the draft or simply to develop, even team depth is more important. SG is not a position of need. Neither is PG.

Philc1 wrote:Btw, Mitchell has a documented concussion problem. He’s had like 3-4 known concussions already and last I checked he plays a full contact sport with 82 games per year

i forgot about this. This is actually a big issue. One more concussion and he might decide to call it quits -- i would

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

TheGame wrote:

TPercy wrote:Mitchell got hard diffed by Brunson and isn’t a good fit here. I’d pass tbh and just see what RJ Grimes and Reddish can do.

I agree. For what Utah is asking, I would pass on him until the price comes down. I would put an offer on the table of Toppin, Fournier, and maybe Reddish, and 4 1st round picks. If Utah can find a better deal, then so be it. Mitchell has too many flaws to trade our whole team away for him.

That's the same max trade I'd endorse. Ainge wants the picks most of all, so he can't have Grimes, too.

I’d agree. For me I think if Drose is still here I think IQ has a higher trade value and we need Obi. Especially if Cam is going. At the same time I believe Grimes holds great trade value given his contract and can be a player for UTAH as they transition. I don’t see a clear role for him unless its off the bench here with Donovan.
I dont’t go more than 4 picks and I don’t like the swaps. Utah can retool quickly and I’d hate if we find ourselves with injury or misfortune we can’t draft out of it.

My take is a deal if done will be a bit Squamish for most of us until its proven on the court.

I think it will take a minimum of 5 to get this deal done. Ainge is looking for a 'historical' package' and Leon obviously doesn't want that. Five or six picks would be the compromise. Assuming Cam, Grimes and Fournier (for salary reasons) are dealt, the team's wing depth could be severely depleted. Julius might have to actually play the wing! I like Spida, but the trade makes less sense the more I think about it.

Agree about needing 5 first rounders.
Hoping we can do just 4 and a couple of seconds.
Saw similar proposal as the one you have above on SI today.
Do not think that Jazz want EFs remaining years.
I would like for the Knicks to offer Obi, Rose, Cam, Deuce and draft picks. Jazz get two young pieces and have Rose for a year to help the youth.

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Btw, Mitchell has a documented concussion problem. He’s had like 3-4 known concussions already and last I checked he plays a full contact sport with 82 games per year

i forgot about this. This is actually a big issue. One more concussion and he might decide to call it quits -- i would

It’s a bigger issue with Mitchell than is being reported. If he was in the nfl he’d be contemplating retirement already

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Btw, Mitchell has a documented concussion problem. He’s had like 3-4 known concussions already and last I checked he plays a full contact sport with 82 games per year

i forgot about this. This is actually a big issue. One more concussion and he might decide to call it quits -- i would

It’s a bigger issue with Mitchell than is being reported. If he was in the nfl he’d be contemplating retirement already

This would show up in medical reports, right? Wasn't that the issue with Ainge in Boston? He was trying to trade Kemba without telling the extent of his injuries? Once a trade of this size is announced it would be really hard to pull back.

gradyandrew wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Btw, Mitchell has a documented concussion problem. He’s had like 3-4 known concussions already and last I checked he plays a full contact sport with 82 games per year

i forgot about this. This is actually a big issue. One more concussion and he might decide to call it quits -- i would

It’s a bigger issue with Mitchell than is being reported. If he was in the nfl he’d be contemplating retirement already

This would show up in medical reports, right? Wasn't that the issue with Ainge in Boston? He was trying to trade Kemba without telling the extent of his injuries? Once a trade of this size is announced it would be really hard to pull back.

It’s already widely known that Mitchell has a concussion problem going back to college

HofstraBBall wrote:
Agree about needing 5 first rounders.
Hoping we can do just 4 and a couple of seconds.
Saw similar proposal as the one you have above on SI today.
Do not think that Jazz want EFs remaining years.
I would like for the Knicks to offer Obi, Rose, Cam, Deuce and draft picks. Jazz get two young pieces and have Rose for a year to help the youth.

The lineup would be:

Brunson/ IQ
Mitchell/ Grimes
RJ/ Fournier
Randle/ Hartenstein
Robinson/ Sims

That looks pretty good. Maybe have to get Markieff or Melo as the backup 4.

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
Agree about needing 5 first rounders.
Hoping we can do just 4 and a couple of seconds.
Saw similar proposal as the one you have above on SI today.
Do not think that Jazz want EFs remaining years.
I would like for the Knicks to offer Obi, Rose, Cam, Deuce and draft picks. Jazz get two young pieces and have Rose for a year to help the youth.

The lineup would be:

Brunson/ IQ
Mitchell/ Grimes
RJ/ Fournier
Randle/ Hartenstein
Robinson/ Sims

That looks pretty good. Maybe have to get Markieff or Melo as the backup 4.

I'm guessing they bring in Eric Paschal if Obi is traded. Solid backup 4 and is good friends with Mitchell. My biggest concern is size at wing position. Maybe take a flyer on guys like Jake Layman or Rodney Hood?

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
Agree about needing 5 first rounders.
Hoping we can do just 4 and a couple of seconds.
Saw similar proposal as the one you have above on SI today.
Do not think that Jazz want EFs remaining years.
I would like for the Knicks to offer Obi, Rose, Cam, Deuce and draft picks. Jazz get two young pieces and have Rose for a year to help the youth.

The lineup would be:

Brunson/ IQ
Mitchell/ Grimes
RJ/ Fournier
Randle/ Hartenstein
Robinson/ Sims

That looks pretty good. Maybe have to get Markieff or Melo as the backup 4.

I'm guessing they bring in Eric Paschal if Obi is traded. Solid backup 4 and is good friends with Mitchell. My biggest concern is size at wing position. Maybe take a flyer on guys like Jake Layman or Rodney Hood?

Paschall also played at Nova with Brunson.

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
Agree about needing 5 first rounders.
Hoping we can do just 4 and a couple of seconds.
Saw similar proposal as the one you have above on SI today.
Do not think that Jazz want EFs remaining years.
I would like for the Knicks to offer Obi, Rose, Cam, Deuce and draft picks. Jazz get two young pieces and have Rose for a year to help the youth.

The lineup would be:

Brunson/ IQ
Mitchell/ Grimes
RJ/ Fournier
Randle/ Hartenstein
Robinson/ Sims

That looks pretty good. Maybe have to get Markieff or Melo as the backup 4.

I'm guessing they bring in Eric Paschal if Obi is traded. Solid backup 4 and is good friends with Mitchell. My biggest concern is size at wing position. Maybe take a flyer on guys like Jake Layman or Rodney Hood?

I will be surprised if Obi is part of the deal. I doubt Randle will be a Knick after next season, if he isnt traded sooner. Obi might be ready to step in as a starter. Wont know if he's traded.

I think you need to take a step back and not get caught up in paying out the largest package of prospects and picks in history for a guy who isn't even top 10 in the league. You're basically locking the team in as a low seeded playoff team. What else can you get for 6 1sts around the league?

jaydh wrote:I think you need to take a step back and not get caught up in paying out the largest package of prospects and picks in history for a guy who isn't even top 10 in the league. You're basically locking the team in as a low seeded playoff team. What else can you get for 6 1sts around the league?

I’m starting to warm to the idea of a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt if we also somehow keep Obi. I think we are a top 4 seed in the East with that roster. Thibs will make it work

I don’t usually listen to clowns on cable talking heads shows but Jalen Rose sold me on it. Sorry

If we can have Mitchell/Grimes for a couple of years as our SG rotation I am ready to sign on the line. As long as we keep Grimes, trading for Mitchell is a no-brainer

Philc1 wrote:

jaydh wrote:I think you need to take a step back and not get caught up in paying out the largest package of prospects and picks in history for a guy who isn't even top 10 in the league. You're basically locking the team in as a low seeded playoff team. What else can you get for 6 1sts around the league?

I;m starting to warm to the idea of a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt if we also somehow keep Obi. I think we are a top 4 seed in the East with that roster. Thibs will make it work

I dont usually listen to clowns on cable talking heads shows but Jalen Rose sold me on it. Sorry

Can you share a link?

jaydh wrote:I think you need to take a step back and not get caught up in paying out the largest package of prospects and picks in history for a guy who isn't even top 10 in the league. You're basically locking the team in as a low seeded playoff team. What else can you get for 6 1sts around the league?

I would not be suprised of other teams have approached knicks about some players but the facts are there are very few players of stature that become available at that age. Ainge is not stupid as he knows the longer and older DM gets towards the end of his contract the less leverage he has to either resign him if he wants to leave, or more important he’d have to pay him.

Maximum value is right now! Are there others? Not a bad idea to float that around but the reality is if another team wanted to that booty of picks and yoot they will step forward and present it to knicks. Who is that? Luka? D’aron Fox?

Its really not about Ainge is it? The guy can ask all he wants. Don’t mean he gets it. But what are allstars at age 26 and three years (plus a player option) worth? I don’t know.

Most trades you win by getting the best player. Thats DM. He makes 30mil, so we have to move salary. Most likely EF. He should ask for RJ but really he is getting a younger but not quite an Allstar player that he has to pay near DM money for. Makes no sense. He just keep DM.
Our protected picks are nice, but they are not great. But we have alot of them. We can’t use them all….
To the Nalodian thought process, its not what we pay, its what we keep.

That it has not been done so fast. That we are not jumping at the first bite, tells me Leon has a price in mind.

Reading and watching a ton of Spider since this rumor started, he is NOT the guy. He can be a great 'Robin' to the guy but he cannot play the lead role. At least not now. I also question his effort and commitment defensively. He's very 'Melo' in that sense and isn't consistent. Actually, Melo level is the perfect comparison! Spider is a 6'3" Melo.

SergioNYK wrote:Reading and watching a ton of Spider since this rumor started, he is NOT the guy. He can be a great 'Robin' to the guy but he cannot play the lead role. At least not now. I also question his effort and commitment defensively. He's very 'Melo' in that sense and isn't consistent. Actually, Melo level is the perfect comparison! Spider is a 6'3" Melo.

And sometimes teams full of Boy Wonders can achieve someething. If you go with Bruns, DM, 6-7 maybe Batman RJ, and Former Bing Bong Batman Jules and Let them gel, you might have something special.
Knick fans want someones batman. I get it.
Not like we won’t ever have picks. Or be depleted of all our yoot. Rokas maybe a 1st round type asset. Utah should want him and give him some run. or we open up an opportunity for him.

Then, you go a year or two, and maybe a few Robins for a batman gets done. KD is available. That Batman will be expensive and we are not in the timeline.
Fact is we might never win a chip in the next few years. Look at Boston. They been close now the last few years. Miami? One improbable run and got smacked down by Lebron and AD. They got Jimmy, a batman, but not that kind of go at it alone batman. Philly be like the fucking Batcave with Emiid, flanked by Tobias, Harden, All star Simmons, and they not there. Milwaukee has its dude, but not enough robins.

Lets get close. Dolan keeps wanting batman and look at what happens?
WE got burned by KD and Kyrie. Another Batcave that reeks of Bat Guano! The picks we got? Won’t get us there. The yoot? Maybe Obi can surge one more BIG level and get his wings. IQ is a nice player, but not the court sense yet. Brunson might unlock some good stuff for our guys. Batman ain’t shit without Alfred. He is way under rated in the scheme of things. Brunson is Alfred. Maybe the next great team don’t have just one Batman. Bunch of little Batmen and Robins. Dudes that can get it done on any given night?

Just dreaming it………….

SergioNYK wrote:Reading and watching a ton of Spider since this rumor started, he is NOT the guy. He can be a great 'Robin' to the guy but he cannot play the lead role. At least not now. I also question his effort and commitment defensively. He's very 'Melo' in that sense and isn't consistent. Actually, Melo level is the perfect comparison! Spider is a 6'3" Melo.

Love when people put down top guys in NBA without looking at what they have. Kinda like making fun of the guy driving the Ferrari while driving a Civic. DM is not the best in the NBA. But last I checked, we do not have a chance at getting a top 5. People also found a way to put down KD when he was rumored to come here. Bottom line is that DM changes the narrative of NY Knicks instantly
As did Melo. He makes us a lot better and is a young talent. I look at him as I did Devin Booker. He may not be Lebron but can be an important part of a top team. Question is what will be left if we trade for him. Not if he is a top player. He has already proven that
And unless you think the current roster changes much without him, he is exactly what we need to ascend to a higher level?

HofstraBBall wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Reading and watching a ton of Spider since this rumor started, he is NOT the guy. He can be a great 'Robin' to the guy but he cannot play the lead role. At least not now. I also question his effort and commitment defensively. He's very 'Melo' in that sense and isn't consistent. Actually, Melo level is the perfect comparison! Spider is a 6'3" Melo.

Love when people put down top guys in NBA without looking at what they have. Kinda like making fun of the guy driving the Ferrari while driving a Civic. DM is not the best in the NBA. But last I checked, we do not have a chance at getting a top 5. People also found a way to put down KD when he was rumored to come here. Bottom line is that DM changes the narrative of NY Knicks instantly
As did Melo. He makes us a lot better and is a young talent. I look at him as I did Devin Booker. He may not be Lebron but can be an important part of a top team. Question is what will be left if we trade for him. Not if he is a top player. He has already proven that
And unless you think the current roster changes much without him, he is exactly what we need to ascend to a higher level?

Well beyond disagreeing with you on the merit of what Mitchell would do for the Knicks after trading what it would take to get him -- what I see is the guy in the Honda Civic with 200,000 miles running like a charm driving by the Ferrari broke down on the side of the road....

simple answer. nope!

Nalod wrote:

jaydh wrote:I think you need to take a step back and not get caught up in paying out the largest package of prospects and picks in history for a guy who isn't even top 10 in the league. You're basically locking the team in as a low seeded playoff team. What else can you get for 6 1sts around the league?

I would not be suprised of other teams have approached knicks about some players but the facts are there are very few players of stature that become available at that age. Ainge is not stupid as he knows the longer and older DM gets towards the end of his contract the less leverage he has to either resign him if he wants to leave, or more important he’d have to pay him.

Maximum value is right now! Are there others? Not a bad idea to float that around but the reality is if another team wanted to that booty of picks and yoot they will step forward and present it to knicks. Who is that? Luka? D’aron Fox?

Its really not about Ainge is it? The guy can ask all he wants. Don’t mean he gets it. But what are allstars at age 26 and three years (plus a player option) worth? I don’t know.

Most trades you win by getting the best player. Thats DM. He makes 30mil, so we have to move salary. Most likely EF. He should ask for RJ but really he is getting a younger but not quite an Allstar player that he has to pay near DM money for. Makes no sense. He just keep DM.
Our protected picks are nice, but they are not great. But we have alot of them. We can’t use them all….
To the Nalodian thought process, its not what we pay, its what we keep.

That it has not been done so fast. That we are not jumping at the first bite, tells me Leon has a price in mind.

This is 100% of what I have been thinking about any trade for Mitchell - what is left? As long as we keep the players we want, and don't completely trade every first rounder, I feel like - it's a move you have to make.

We can talk about valuing Grimes and IQ- but with Mitchell, where exactly do they play? Especially if you keep Fournier- same if we keep Rose, trade Fournier as the money piece- where are the minutes?

Is Donovan the guy? No - but he sure is damn good! And he will help us win a lot of games - and as we saw with Boston, you just need solid defense and good shooting to make it to the finals!