Knicks · Instead of Donovan, target Wiggins next summer (page 1)
GS is going to have salary issues after this next season, they are at $160M with both Poole and Wiggins needing to get resigned to massive extensions.
By the end of next season, I'm going to assume Kuminga, Poole, Moody will all be ready for major minutes at the guard/wing positions. Wiggins becomes a luxury to move.
Knicks would again need to create enough cap space to first threaten and/or outright sign Wiggins if GS won't S&T.
Moving Randle is key and hello to all of the Randle to Lakers talk. If Knicks didn't have Randle/Fournier on cap next season (moved for Westbrook), they would sit at around $97M with RJ's cap hold and needing to move/release/do something with Cam's $17m cap hold. 2023 cap projects to be in the $133M range. Numbers don't exactly match but they are close enough to the margins.
In 2 years: (without taking into account picks)
Brunson IQ McBride
RJ Grimes
Wiggins
Obi
Mitch iHart Sims
Obviously the team would have some holes and lack of depth at PF/SF but you can backfill for a year and gain a ton of minutes across the young players. Keep most of your picks too. Feel like there is enough FO good will in the Brunson signing and the perception of what Utah may be over asking for.
Randle on Lakers is no doubt a weird fit but if there is exactly 1 guy in the league that could convince Julius to come off the bench with the likes of Rose and/or Fournier, it would be LeBron.
martin wrote:Lots of maneuvering needs to happen with salary - namely Julius and one of Fournier/Rose - but you wouldn't have to sell the farm in young players/picks as with a Mitchell trade and the fit is much better.GS is going to have salary issues after this next season, they are at $160M with both Poole and Wiggins needing to get resigned to massive extensions.
By the end of next season, I'm going to assume Kuminga, Poole, Moody will all be ready for major minutes at the guard/wing positions. Wiggins becomes a luxury to move.
Knicks would again need to create enough cap space to first threaten and/or outright sign Wiggins if GS won't S&T.
Moving Randle is key and hello to all of the Randle to Lakers talk. If Knicks didn't have Randle/Fournier on cap next season (moved for Westbrook), they would sit at around $97M with RJ's cap hold and needing to move/release/do something with Cam's $17m cap hold. 2023 cap projects to be in the $133M range. Numbers don't exactly match but they are close enough to the margins.
In 2 years: (without taking into account picks)
Brunson IQ McBride
RJ Grimes
Wiggins
Obi
Mitch iHart SimsObviously the team would have some holes and lack of depth at PF/SF but you can backfill for a year and gain a ton of minutes across the young players. Keep most of your picks too. Feel like there is enough FO good will in the Brunson signing and the perception of what Utah may be over asking for.
Randle on Lakers is no doubt a weird fit but if there is exactly 1 guy in the league that could convince Julius to come off the bench with the likes of Rose and/or Fournier, it would be LeBron.
If knicks take on Westbrook to dump its possible Randle gets moved to a third team. Many combos but we not as concerned with where Randle goes once an ex-knick.
Wiggins could also be a PF as well given his size and growing build. If true, gives flexibility if needed.
Our picks are many and I don’t see how we can absorb them and develop so no doubt trades are the currency. But, not all deals need to be big ones either. Wiggins is a good concept. Funny, when I watch his game which is getting more powerful I did see some similarities to Randles game. Wiggins is more a high flier in and around the rim. Randle is slimmer the last two seasons. Could be part if his issues? Maybe he was thinking less power and being quicker was the direction he wanted to go?
That said, Wiggins really looked good on GS as the 4th option and was key to their chip. Maybe Thibs has Randle strapped to the chair like “Alex DeLarge” from “A Clockwork Orange” and part of his therapy is to have him watch video of Wiggins over and over again getting his mind set for a different kind of role? Kudo’s to Wiggins for executing all that made him a key part of a championship team. But Kudo’s to Kerr and his staff for coaching him to believe in this role. Leaving the baggage from Minny and reinventing this version was quite a feat for all.
Thus, I like this concept of wiggins, but if not as a fan would love to see what Thibs has in store for Randle and if there is a different version of him that helps propel the team to greater heights. Not all pro-point forward from two years ago. one that fuels the the betterment of the team as a whole.
Starting: Brunson, Grimes, RJ, Wiggins, Mitch
Bench: IQ, Rokas, ? (2 2023 picks), Obi, Hart
Lots of possibilities
The longer I look at all these Mitchell scenarios and even the most favorable where we would be giving up 3-5 first round picks of various persuasions the more it upsets my stomach. I’ve been a Wiggins guy even prior to GS breakout and I’d prefer keeping all our assets and using cap on FA —-
We’d still be miss that end of game shot creator/maker but we’d still have a ton of assets.
The minute after we make a Mitchell trade — I bet 90% of Knick fans will start dreading the loss of 3-7 years of picks and draft rights.
Knixkik wrote:My only concern is that Wiggins rep has been protected in golden state and he’s still closer to the player he was in Minnesota. This is a guy who was viewed as an albatross contact before he joined the best core in modern basketball and played the Harrison Barnes role.
You are not wrong here, he is definitely a 2nd to 3rd type player on a deep playoff team. But maybe he has also turned the corner to fulfilling more of his potential finally.
In NY, you still would have RJ and Brunson filling the more ball dominant and personality dominant roles. Team would still be positioned to upgrade.
MAYBE thats what Leon and Co are seeing with DM, and what a reconstituted Randle can do. Wiggins did not really gain much other than lowered expectations and was surrounded by incredible talent.
Take away Wiggins draft position and the contract. Then what is his value?
If RJ is killing it, Brunson able to do his thing and command attention, EF is reasonable, Randle will have a much easier time. So should OBI. Again, add DM and randle/obi is 4th option. Not close to saying we are akin to GSW, but we going in the right direction.
Nope, its not a guarantee chip team. Winning is hard. Really hard. Easy to say "No, we not contending......so don't do it". GSW Im not sure when they go tthe pick that was Kominga and Wiggins for D'russell they visualized that they'd win a chip with that. Just got to keep moving forward. They did. It came together.
Interesting Draymond now pining for max money. Dude has been out of shape, injury prone and he did have a great season. Im not sayin he not worth it. He has seen Steph grow to a god, Klay got his money. He goes into next season making 25 mil at age 32. Next year he has player option at 27mil.
Since being selected with the 35th pick in the 2012 NBA Draft, Green has racked up four All-Star selections, two All-NBA selections, one Defensive Player of the Year award and seven All-Defensive selections.
Sounds like a lot of All-Defensive selections, right? Only 18 players in NBA history have earned more, a list that includes the likes of Tim Duncan (15), Kevin Garnett (12), Michael Jordan (9) and Dennis Rodman (8).
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news...
He is HOF bound given his ring count and those awards. He deserves the money based on past performance. If GSW do that its their business. What is the Window for them? One more year? Two? He plays with emotion and gets it done. What happens if the money is paid and he loses that? He brings them down. Risks. Not an easy decision for them.
Then you got Wiggins next year too.
Funny stuff: Two compared:
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Jul...
bit skewered given they don't could games played. Randle broke his leg first game in his rookie season. Missed it all. Off the radar year two as he missed so much time.
My eye tests are Randle playing more like a 3 last two seasons and Wiggins interchangable with Draymond as a 3-4. Randle's rebounding and assits clear advantage. FT's? Randle. ALso 3pt range. Wiggins got the chip though.
End of the day Wiggins now has chip cred!!!! Maybe we trade Randle and pieces to GSW for Draymond? LOL............This is all so much fun.
He can guard Trae and slap his testes big time.
Clean wrote:Bro, I am not on this Wiggins train. He is a product of being on a team where no one will pay attention to him. I have no interest in paying Wiggins big money. Why do people think players play better in Golden State. It not some magic culture stuff. If that was the case they would have been better when Steph was injured. Teams have to pay so much attention to Steph and Klay that everyone else get way better shots or ability to attack the defense because the defense is scrambling after overloading on the Splash brothers.
Not quite sure what you are saying. Wiggins has been solid last 2 years - first one without Klay on court - and is a solid 2-way player. Thibs also has familiarity.
This trade does not represent signing a tier 1 or even tier 2 all star who you focus your team build around even when you know his salary will be starting around $40+M. And as an aside, salaries for a player like Wiggens in the $40+m mark will be the norm for a top 20-30 player in the league both soon and especially because of the jump in salary cap when next TV deal goes down - think back to the jump contracts made in 2016.
This type of player acquisition is a different look at what else you could get who won't cost you a huge amount of picks and young players on cost controlled contracts with better fit than what Donovan Michell is with Brunson and RJ.
It's talent acquisition using the cheapest means necessary and saving those picks for the really big trade you go after with Brunson, RJ, Wiggins and Mitch, IQ, Grimes, Obi, Hart.
martin wrote:Clean wrote:Bro, I am not on this Wiggins train. He is a product of being on a team where no one will pay attention to him. I have no interest in paying Wiggins big money. Why do people think players play better in Golden State. It not some magic culture stuff. If that was the case they would have been better when Steph was injured. Teams have to pay so much attention to Steph and Klay that everyone else get way better shots or ability to attack the defense because the defense is scrambling after overloading on the Splash brothers.Not quite sure what you are saying. Wiggins has been solid last 2 years - first one without Klay on court - and is a solid 2-way player. Thibs also has familiarity.
This trade does not represent signing a tier 1 or even tier 2 all star who you focus your team build around even when you know his salary will be starting around $40+M. And as an aside, salaries for a player like Wiggens in the $40+m mark will be the norm for a top 20-30 player in the league both soon and especially because of the jump in salary cap when next TV deal goes down - think back to the jump contracts made in 2016.
This type of player acquisition is a different look at what else you could get who won't cost you a huge amount of picks and young players on cost controlled contracts with better fit than what Donovan Michell is with Brunson and RJ.
It's talent acquisition using the cheapest means necessary and saving those picks for the really big trade you go after with Brunson, RJ, Wiggins and Mitch, IQ, Grimes, Obi, Hart.
Granted, Randle did not play to his year before but at the time of his signing it was seen as a near bargain given the coming inflation.
He got paid 21 mil this past season. But all things aside Wiggins is set to make 33mil this coming season then UFA. Was he worth the 31mil he got paid this past season? Did they win a chip?
Yes, he has been solid last two years. He was a bit of a disappointment which is why he was salary fodder for the deal that got minny D'angelo Russell. They go the pick that was Kuminga.
What was, what is, and what will be. .......
Minny has not been very good. But they might next two years. Despite the history.
GSW? Hindsight genius move to get Wiggins! Looked bad at first. All the while looked like they'd make a deal. They Turned Durant to Russell, then to Kuminga/Wiggins.
Wiggins been great last two years. Not at that salary great. But he was an allstar!
Will he command max like money. Doubt it. thats what martin is thinking.
If Randle can claw half way back to his "we here" his contract is not bad at all.
martin wrote:Clean wrote:Bro, I am not on this Wiggins train. He is a product of being on a team where no one will pay attention to him. I have no interest in paying Wiggins big money. Why do people think players play better in Golden State. It not some magic culture stuff. If that was the case they would have been better when Steph was injured. Teams have to pay so much attention to Steph and Klay that everyone else get way better shots or ability to attack the defense because the defense is scrambling after overloading on the Splash brothers.Not quite sure what you are saying. Wiggins has been solid last 2 years - first one without Klay on court - and is a solid 2-way player. Thibs also has familiarity.
This trade does not represent signing a tier 1 or even tier 2 all star who you focus your team build around even when you know his salary will be starting around $40+M. And as an aside, salaries for a player like Wiggens in the $40+m mark will be the norm for a top 20-30 player in the league both soon and especially because of the jump in salary cap when next TV deal goes down - think back to the jump contracts made in 2016.
This type of player acquisition is a different look at what else you could get who won't cost you a huge amount of picks and young players on cost controlled contracts with better fit than what Donovan Michell is with Brunson and RJ.
It's talent acquisition using the cheapest means necessary and saving those picks for the really big trade you go after with Brunson, RJ, Wiggins and Mitch, IQ, Grimes, Obi, Hart.
Solid is not going to be worth what it will cost to get him. He will be getting paid more than Randle and Brunson. Once teams focus on him again his value on court will also drop. Everyone can have their own opinion but mines will be to stay far away from a 40mil per year Wiggins. He is a really good role player who will be getting paid like a 2nd tier star. I just don't see the good in that.
Edit: I also don't get the excuse to give out bad contracts now that the cap will raise. Some on Knicks twitter are using the same excuse when saying why we should max our RJ. RJ is clearly not a max player. If I was a FO I would not be in the business of throwing out terrible contracts because they will be less terrible in a few years. Give out good contracts so they will be great in a few years and you have cap space to improve you team.
Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:Bro, I am not on this Wiggins train. He is a product of being on a team where no one will pay attention to him. I have no interest in paying Wiggins big money. Why do people think players play better in Golden State. It not some magic culture stuff. If that was the case they would have been better when Steph was injured. Teams have to pay so much attention to Steph and Klay that everyone else get way better shots or ability to attack the defense because the defense is scrambling after overloading on the Splash brothers.Not quite sure what you are saying. Wiggins has been solid last 2 years - first one without Klay on court - and is a solid 2-way player. Thibs also has familiarity.
This trade does not represent signing a tier 1 or even tier 2 all star who you focus your team build around even when you know his salary will be starting around $40+M. And as an aside, salaries for a player like Wiggens in the $40+m mark will be the norm for a top 20-30 player in the league both soon and especially because of the jump in salary cap when next TV deal goes down - think back to the jump contracts made in 2016.
This type of player acquisition is a different look at what else you could get who won't cost you a huge amount of picks and young players on cost controlled contracts with better fit than what Donovan Michell is with Brunson and RJ.
It's talent acquisition using the cheapest means necessary and saving those picks for the really big trade you go after with Brunson, RJ, Wiggins and Mitch, IQ, Grimes, Obi, Hart.
Solid is not going to be worth what it will cost to get him. He will be getting paid more than Randle and Brunson. Once teams focus on him again his value on court will also drop. Everyone can have their own opinion but mines will be to stay far away from a 40mil per year Wiggins. He is a really good role player who will be getting paid like a 2nd tier star. I just don't see the good in that.
Edit: I also don't get the excuse to give out bad contracts now that the cap will raise. Some on Knicks twitter are using the same excuse when saying why we should max our RJ. RJ is clearly not a max player. If I was a FO I would not be in the business of throwing out terrible contracts because they will be less terrible in a few years. Give out good contracts so they will be great in a few years and you have cap space to improve you team.
Martin, clarify if paying Wiggins 40mil is in yoru wheelhouse?
Im thinking he a 25mil per year player. He in Randle type money. Top 50 at best.
Randle was all NBA for a year. At least there was that. Wiggins was an allstar this year. but as discussed, he playing with HOF's!!
Just throwin it out there boys
He is not better than Mitchell who will be getting paid $30m and is under contract through 24/25
And, I'm not sure I'd want him over Randle, depending if we get the Multiverse version of Randle this coming year.
I don't think he is a bad player but he isn't someone that I feel moves the needle in a positive direction.
He reminds me a lot of Rudy Gay. A good solid ROLE player.
As a matter of fact...I'll go as far as to say that he is just a notch better than Alec Burks.
I might prefer Jordan Poole- or, maybe G State will eventually have to blow it up, and you could get a shell of himself Draymond Green or Thompson for 1 year vet rental- not advocating personally.
gradyandrew wrote:We can come back here in January if the Knicks are 8 games under .500. As is, I don't think the Knicks should be throwing in the towel for next season to have a shot at signing Wiggins.
In theory the Knicks could move Rose and Fournier and get Wiggins cap wise (plus picks of course).
The main plus for chasing Wiggins is if the Warriors decide to not be greedy (aka the anti Ainge)because of cap reasons and their own cap friendly youth being able to contribute significantly. If the Knicks can get Wiggins for Fournier, Rose, and say a few firsts. Then paying him with Bird rights later makes him and his pay increase a lot easier to swallow because they can keep their kids and should still have more draft picks.
There are a few more wings that could be interesting if their team decides to trade them for a fair price.
wargames wrote:I like the idea of chasing a wing like Wiggins, I also actually think he still has 2nd to 1st option upside. I just don’t know if he could reach that in a Thibs offense as a primary or secondary target for the opposing defense. Also like Clean said he will want to get paid.The main plus for chasing Wiggins is if the Warriors decide to not be greedy (aka the anti Ainge)because of cap reasons and their own cap friendly youth being able to contribute significantly. If the Knicks can get Wiggins for Fournier, Rose, and say a few firsts. Then paying him with Bird rights later makes him and his pay increase a lot easier to swallow because they can keep their kids and should still have more draft picks.
There are a few more wings that could be interesting if their team decides to trade them for a fair price.
I don't think Warriors have any interest in trading Wiggins until they lose a playoff series. Once they do, money starts to come into play.