Playing up to contract value: Lets be real, even at 20-10 Randle meets this. EF, 18mm is not so crazy given he is a starter with very good range.
Lets talk miami for a second. Duncan Robinson. 5 years 90 mil. Avg 18mil for 5 years. Nope and not a trade chip. We had EF for jsut 3 years.
Kyle lowrey, nope. 3 years 85mil.. He regressed.
Jimmy Butler has 3 years and 150mil left and he is magnificent but at 32 he showed some signs of aging last season. If so he can’t carry a team for 82 games. At 50mil per, it kind of should be that.
Bubble year they were in finals and Herro was all the rage. He returned to good form last season and he deserves a better deal than RJ. Not saying they are equal or who got long range upside. Very different players and Herro has acomplishments.
Ainge painted himself into a corner all because Leon was cool. Does not mean we get DM at the fans discount price or we all get to keep our favorite yoot. RJ need not be an allstar to play up to that contract and fact is we control him for the next 5 seasons at which ending will be all of 27 years old. This makes him valuable as a knick and a trade chip. Just not today for DM.
Grimes. We can circle jerk into what ever the logo says but if he is “all that” then Ainge needs to pay up for that. We talking about a kid who started 6 games, played 46 and avg 10 min a game. Granted, I know that stat line degrades him as much as RJ’s last 35 game should upgrade him some to those that doubt him. I really liked what I saw from Grimes in that time and and would be just fine with him starting next to Brunson. I think EF can be traded.
To that, 11 picks in 7 years and a roster that needs consolidation.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Clean wrote:I hope yall paid attention to the wording used when talking about the contract. The only way he makes 30mil a year is with hitting his bonuses. If he hits those bonuses he would be worth 30 a year.
I think it’s the 30 a year PLUS bonuses.
Nope, read carefully Woj's wording."New York Knicks guard RJ Barrett is finalizing a four-year rookie extension that could be worth up to $120 million"
Yes, confirmed everywhere
So on its own, the RJ extension is a little more than what Keldon Johnson signed with the Spurs, which sounds fair. I'd be surprised if RJ hits any of those bonuses, but it would be great if he did. I'm guessing this also sets the the range on the upcoming Tyler Herro deal.
Keldon makes $20M in his first year and then it goes south, total deal $74M for an average around $18.5M.
RJ will start around $27M?
Yeah, I initially read it as RJ making around $90M total, with $30 in bonuses. Still not horrible.
If all goes well, I can see RJ pitting up numbers in the rough neighborhood of Tatum and Brown on the Celtics by the time he reaches his mid 20s. (RJ was much more productive than Brown over their respective first 3 seasons; RJ was arguably better than Tatum over their first 2 seasons before Tatum turned it up a notch in year 3)
All star and all NBA accolades will largely be determined by whether the Knicks have a winning team on any given year.
The reality is fans often think we over pay. We were on fire with Brunson getting a max and it did not happen. WE were all”Fuck RJ if he wants the max”. Did not happen. Knicks don’t over pay and walk away from deals. Randle deal is not awful but he does need to walk back some of last years first and NOT GET WORSE!!!!
My take is RJ upside could be Jaylen Brown. Emphasis on “Could be”. Not a guy that can carry a team but a really really good 2nd option and great 3rd. RJ is 3 in my book.
If Grimes can match EF range he gets gets the nod if he has not already. He does other things better.
martin wrote:technomaster wrote:If all goes well, I can see RJ pitting up numbers in the rough neighborhood of Tatum and Brown on the Celtics by the time he reaches his mid 20s. (RJ was much more productive than Brown over their respective first 3 seasons; RJ was arguably better than Tatum over their first 2 seasons before Tatum turned it up a notch in year 3)All star and all NBA accolades will largely be determined by whether the Knicks have a winning team on any given year.
From RealGM poster:
zimpy27 wrote:In 2019 the Celtics gave Jaylen Brown an extension at the start of his final year on his rookie deal.In that deal, Brown got $103m guaranteed, $107m with likely incentives, $115m with unlikely incentives.
Under the current salary cap, those numbers would be $116.5m guaranteed, $121m with likely incentives, $130m with unlikely incentives.
So with that considered, this is actually a decent contract if you think RJ and Brown were comparable in their 3rd NBA season:
Nalod months ago compared those two and I used Derozen as well. RJ trending very nicely.
Im not patting my self on the back. It was just an exercise to bring some positive comps to the RJ discussion.
smackeddog wrote:Personally I would have done and preferred a deal centred on RJ and 2 unprotected 1st for Mitch, but I absolutely agree with drawing the line at that. Think Rose made the right call, suck a d***, Ainge! lets see if we can pivot to SGA for mainly picks now OKC are facing another tanking season- it has the added bonus of annoying Ainge more too as it increases OKC's tank ability and hits Ainge's ego and ability to out bid them in trade ups in future drafts.
Id rather keep RJ and trade the 6 first round picks plus Obi and Fournier for Mitchell
I have zero problems giving RJ the bag. He will not 'Randle' us after getting money. I think RJ will continue to work hard, stay out of trouble and improve. No doubt in my mind he will reach his max potential...whatever that may be!
SergioNYK wrote:I have zero problems giving RJ the bag. He will not 'Randle' us after getting money. I think RJ will continue to work hard, stay out of trouble and improve. No doubt in my mind he will reach his max potential...whatever that may be!
We have yet to see the best of RJ. Once we are forced to go with a smaller lineup because Randle and Obi suck RJ will go nuts as a de facto PF
Great news! Agree that Ainge isnt used to dealing with a team that isnt buying his BS. Leon didnt leave his negotiating skills at CAA. Love the FO giving Utah a deadline. Ainge's head must be spinning lol.
Glad that RJ is off the board in a potential deal.
martin wrote:technomaster wrote:If all goes well, I can see RJ pitting up numbers in the rough neighborhood of Tatum and Brown on the Celtics by the time he reaches his mid 20s. (RJ was much more productive than Brown over their respective first 3 seasons; RJ was arguably better than Tatum over their first 2 seasons before Tatum turned it up a notch in year 3)All star and all NBA accolades will largely be determined by whether the Knicks have a winning team on any given year.
From RealGM poster:
zimpy27 wrote:In 2019 the Celtics gave Jaylen Brown an extension at the start of his final year on his rookie deal.In that deal, Brown got $103m guaranteed, $107m with likely incentives, $115m with unlikely incentives.
Under the current salary cap, those numbers would be $116.5m guaranteed, $121m with likely incentives, $130m with unlikely incentives.
So with that considered, this is actually a decent contract if you think RJ and Brown were comparable in their 3rd NBA season:
The biggest difference in those two stat lines is the shooting percentages, specifically the 2pt numbers RJ 44% vs JB 53%. That's where RJ has to get more efficient and he'll be well worth the contract.
I read during a game that RJ asked Derozan if he could workout with him, pick up some pointers. This wasnt a rookie asking. Shows how driven RJ is to succeed. Cant guarantee where his game will go. Can guarantee that RJ will put in the hard work. Character.
Panos wrote:martin wrote:technomaster wrote:If all goes well, I can see RJ pitting up numbers in the rough neighborhood of Tatum and Brown on the Celtics by the time he reaches his mid 20s. (RJ was much more productive than Brown over their respective first 3 seasons; RJ was arguably better than Tatum over their first 2 seasons before Tatum turned it up a notch in year 3)All star and all NBA accolades will largely be determined by whether the Knicks have a winning team on any given year.
From RealGM poster:
zimpy27 wrote:In 2019 the Celtics gave Jaylen Brown an extension at the start of his final year on his rookie deal.In that deal, Brown got $103m guaranteed, $107m with likely incentives, $115m with unlikely incentives.
Under the current salary cap, those numbers would be $116.5m guaranteed, $121m with likely incentives, $130m with unlikely incentives.
So with that considered, this is actually a decent contract if you think RJ and Brown were comparable in their 3rd NBA season:
The biggest difference in those two stat lines is the shooting percentages, specifically the 2pt numbers RJ 44% vs JB 53%. That's where RJ has to get more efficient and he'll be well worth the contract.
Good day to be a fan! The Knicks will have a competitive team for the next 4 seasons. You don't always have to hit home runs.
joec32033 wrote:wargames wrote:Clean wrote:Surprisingly this guy has sources. He called RJ extended or traded within 24hrs.
I guess the name is apt…
That also gets me excited for Grimes long term.
Also that trade offer was fair. Five first round picks, RJ, and Fournier. Ainge wanting more is absurd.
I hate that offer because it still leaves a glut at PF and too heavily dependant on 2 below average height guards. Grimes isn't big enough to play a SF spot (I think he is your prototypical SG). Trading RJ and Fournier leaves you no SF at all except maybe Reddish (once again doesn't make sense with how he has been treated here).
And that is not to mention the amount of picks you are giving up while still including RJ 22 year old 20 ppg scorer who can defend (and currently your best prospect).
That trade makes no sense.
The question on RJ was basically is he worth $30M a year. That would be All Star money or a major piece of a deep playoff team. Both things RJ had yet to do.
However, glad we kept him but would have preferred to wait and see how he faired the first half of the season.
Nalod wrote:The reality is fans often think we over pay. We were on fire with Brunson getting a max and it did not happen. WE were all”Fuck RJ if he wants the max”. Did not happen. Knicks don’t over pay and walk away from deals. Randle deal is not awful but he does need to walk back some of last years first and NOT GET WORSE!!!!My take is RJ upside could be Jaylen Brown. Emphasis on “Could be”. Not a guy that can carry a team but a really really good 2nd option and great 3rd. RJ is 3 in my book.
If Grimes can match EF range he gets gets the nod if he has not already. He does other things better.
Over paying for me is giving up a lot of draft capital. Brunson, RJ and Randle cost no picks.
Now we need to use those picks to move up in drafts or het young prospects.
Shoot less, play better defense and I will be happy with the contract numbers.
HofstraBBall wrote:joec32033 wrote:wargames wrote:Clean wrote:Surprisingly this guy has sources. He called RJ extended or traded within 24hrs.
I guess the name is apt…
That also gets me excited for Grimes long term.
Also that trade offer was fair. Five first round picks, RJ, and Fournier. Ainge wanting more is absurd.
I hate that offer because it still leaves a glut at PF and too heavily dependant on 2 below average height guards. Grimes isn't big enough to play a SF spot (I think he is your prototypical SG). Trading RJ and Fournier leaves you no SF at all except maybe Reddish (once again doesn't make sense with how he has been treated here).
And that is not to mention the amount of picks you are giving up while still including RJ 22 year old 20 ppg scorer who can defend (and currently your best prospect).
That trade makes no sense.
The question on RJ was basically is he worth $30M a year. That would be All Star money or a major piece of a deep playoff team. Both things RJ had yet to do.
However, glad we kept him but would have preferred to wait and see how he faired the first half of the season.
It's not $30 million UNLESS he is an All star. Base was $107 over 4 years which is almost 27 mil a season.
By comparison he slots in around 50th highest salary in the league, Just above Derozan and below Brunson.
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/players/
Some players within a million dollars of his salary are
Horford
Draymond Green
Lowery gets paid 2 mil more
Look at the lost. There is a steep drop off at around 60 with some good players peppered in.
joec32033 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:joec32033 wrote:wargames wrote:Clean wrote:Surprisingly this guy has sources. He called RJ extended or traded within 24hrs.
I guess the name is apt…
That also gets me excited for Grimes long term.
Also that trade offer was fair. Five first round picks, RJ, and Fournier. Ainge wanting more is absurd.
I hate that offer because it still leaves a glut at PF and too heavily dependant on 2 below average height guards. Grimes isn't big enough to play a SF spot (I think he is your prototypical SG). Trading RJ and Fournier leaves you no SF at all except maybe Reddish (once again doesn't make sense with how he has been treated here).
And that is not to mention the amount of picks you are giving up while still including RJ 22 year old 20 ppg scorer who can defend (and currently your best prospect).
That trade makes no sense.
The question on RJ was basically is he worth $30M a year. That would be All Star money or a major piece of a deep playoff team. Both things RJ had yet to do.
However, glad we kept him but would have preferred to wait and see how he faired the first half of the season.
It's not $30 million UNLESS he is an All star. Base was $107 over 4 years which is almost 27 mil a season.
By comparison he slots in around 50th highest salary in the league, Just above Derozan and below Brunson.
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/players/
Some players within a million dollars of his salary are
Horford
Draymond Green
Lowery gets paid 2 mil more
Look at the lost. There is a steep drop off at around 60 with some good players peppered in.
Not saying $30M is what he got. Just that it was probably what the Knicks figured it would take. The deal that is rumored to have taken place seems to have been less than what they anticipated and the reason Knicks decided to do the extension.
Hoping RJs plays up to his bonuses.
Now we just need that number ONE that fits the roster and timeline. Think DM is that as long as we do not give up the farm. Just don't see Rose and Ainge able to reengage.
And $30 million a year isn't what it used to be.
KnickDanger wrote:And $30 million a year isn't what it used to be.
LOL 30mm is a LOT for any human. But on to basketball.. Im in absolute favor of this deal Im in absolute favor of not trading for Mitchell Im in absolute favor of signing Brunson and Hartenstein. I wouldve liked to simply take a pick at 11 and not go so nuts on trading them forward pick 11 is high and there were several areas we couldve gone. But Im not gonna nitpick I like what we did I like the team
im hoping Tibs plays 10 guys and keeps our guys fresh. I expect us to win 47-52 games and nothing else with our team is reasonable. Lets go
BRIGGS wrote:KnickDanger wrote:And $30 million a year isn't what it used to be.
LOL 30mm is a LOT for any human. But on to basketball.. Im in absolute favor of this deal Im in absolute favor of not trading for Mitchell Im in absolute favor of signing Brunson and Hartenstein. I wouldve liked to simply take a pick at 11 and not go so nuts on trading them forward pick 11 is high and there were several areas we couldve gone. But Im not gonna nitpick I like what we did I like the team
im hoping Tibs plays 10 guys and keeps our guys fresh. I expect us to win 47-52 games and nothing else with our team is reasonable. Lets go
You are more optimistic than me. I am hopeful with Brunson, but I need to see a categorical change in his defense before I am "ecstatic". I am not sure that Barrett and Randle fit well next to him. That's more about 21-22 Barrett and Randle than Brunson. He's everything I could want on offense with question marks on defense. His biggest strength being his mid-range game but that overlaps with the locations that Randle and Robinson park themselves. It seems more attuned to a spread offense that we don't really have with Barrett and Randle regressing to low 30% 3pt percentages. Its possible it works, but it seems like there is conflict there.
Grimes looked good in summer league. He took a lot of shots and got the money stats, though his efficiency suffered by comparison. He was among the best players in Summer League and hope he can build on that in training camp. He's a little bit undersized at SG without the wingspan to make up for it (like Mitchell). I like his skill set a lot and can see him being a solid rotation player for a few years. I am not sure whether I have Doug Christie, Landry Fields, or something altogether different here.
I am pretty high on Toppin. More than most. Its funny that I overlook his 30% from 3 but give Randle trouble for his 30% from 3. I think Toppin needs more playing time. I think his off the ball movement and passing, low usage, make him a good component of a competitive team. Mostly cause Randle isn't taking good shots at all. But Randle has the better defense, the stronger physical presence, but less athletic. I am a buyer of Toppin's upside, but hoping that something clicks with Randle.
I'm not sure I am over .500 on this team as constructed while Fournier is in the starting lineup and without seeing how Barrett and Randle work with Brunson.
