BRIGGS wrote:KnickDanger wrote:And $30 million a year isn't what it used to be.
LOL 30mm is a LOT for any human. But on to basketball.. Im in absolute favor of this deal Im in absolute favor of not trading for Mitchell Im in absolute favor of signing Brunson and Hartenstein. I wouldve liked to simply take a pick at 11 and not go so nuts on trading them forward pick 11 is high and there were several areas we couldve gone. But Im not gonna nitpick I like what we did I like the team
im hoping Tibs plays 10 guys and keeps our guys fresh. I expect us to win 47-52 games and nothing else with our team is reasonable. Lets go
You are more optimistic than me. I am hopeful with Brunson, but I need to see a categorical change in his defense before I am "ecstatic". I am not sure that Barrett and Randle fit well next to him. That's more about 21-22 Barrett and Randle than Brunson. He's everything I could want on offense with question marks on defense. His biggest strength being his mid-range game but that overlaps with the locations that Randle and Robinson park themselves. It seems more attuned to a spread offense that we don't really have with Barrett and Randle regressing to low 30% 3pt percentages. Its possible it works, but it seems like there is conflict there.
Grimes looked good in summer league. He took a lot of shots and got the money stats, though his efficiency suffered by comparison. He was among the best players in Summer League and hope he can build on that in training camp. He's a little bit undersized at SG without the wingspan to make up for it (like Mitchell). I like his skill set a lot and can see him being a solid rotation player for a few years. I am not sure whether I have Doug Christie, Landry Fields, or something altogether different here.
I am pretty high on Toppin. More than most. Its funny that I overlook his 30% from 3 but give Randle trouble for his 30% from 3. I think Toppin needs more playing time. I think his off the ball movement and passing, low usage, make him a good component of a competitive team. Mostly cause Randle isn't taking good shots at all. But Randle has the better defense, the stronger physical presence, but less athletic. I am a buyer of Toppin's upside, but hoping that something clicks with Randle.
I'm not sure I am over .500 on this team as constructed while Fournier is in the starting lineup and without seeing how Barrett and Randle work with Brunson.
really liking how the core is shaping up. We have some young guys who can really grow together.
fishmike wrote:really liking how the core is shaping up. We have some young guys who can really grow together.
Hold that thought until we make it to training camp.
Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..
https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/31/rj-barrett-knicks-polarizing/
GustavBahler wrote:ToddTT wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/31/rj-barrett-knicks-polarizing/
Barbarian.
um....Adrienne Barbeau?
There is something wrong with that site. I can't quite understand what they want. Apparently there is a pop-up that blocks content and they want something from me. I think it's " one dallah, one dallah, get your sports info for only a dallah.." gasp! In this day and age the internet traffic is not enough for them. The revenue from advertisements is not enough. They want an actual dollar. Who does that? They seem to be stuck in last century, like Newsweek. It's a scam 
GustavBahler wrote:ToddTT wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/31/rj-barrett-knicks-polarizing/
Barbarian.
um....Adrienne Barbeau?
Back in her day...John Carpenter was getting busy.
GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/...
Great read. Usaually the athletic hits me up for a Dallah. THis time not.
Windhorst podcast this morning really nailed it that knicks are following a plan, had a solid summer, like the Barrett signing,, and think Leon is spot on with many things. Small moves. Discussed tradable contracts as the parameter.
Only one in queastion is Randle but at worst he can be moved laterally. If Hornets have the space, they need him!
I won’t predict how he’ll play. I don’t know if he ignored his coach by bringing up the ball? Was mad all year, or what ever. At thhe same time respect 20-10 is still not easy in the nba.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/...
Great read. Usaually the athletic hits me up for a Dallah. THis time not.
Windhorst podcast this morning really nailed it that knicks are following a plan, had a solid summer, like the Barrett signing,, and think Leon is spot on with many things. Small moves. Discussed tradable contracts as the parameter.
Only one in queastion is Randle but at worst he can be moved laterally. If Hornets have the space, they need him!
I won’t predict how he’ll play. I don’t know if he ignored his coach by bringing up the ball? Was mad all year, or what ever. At thhe same time respect 20-10 is still not easy in the nba.
40 players averaged 20 points a game last year and a few handful more averaged 18-19 with much better efficiency than Jules. That's not even taking into account guys who averaged 20 per 36 minutes. I'd say scoring 20 and 10 is far easier today than it was 5 or 10 years ago given the pace of today's game. It's like 300lb dude bragging that he has 20 inch arms when the majority of it is flab. I give little respect to someone who averages 20 points when they were one of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. Same kinda goes for RJ but he has the excuse of youth.
BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/...
Great read. Usaually the athletic hits me up for a Dallah. THis time not.
Windhorst podcast this morning really nailed it that knicks are following a plan, had a solid summer, like the Barrett signing,, and think Leon is spot on with many things. Small moves. Discussed tradable contracts as the parameter.
Only one in queastion is Randle but at worst he can be moved laterally. If Hornets have the space, they need him!
I won’t predict how he’ll play. I don’t know if he ignored his coach by bringing up the ball? Was mad all year, or what ever. At thhe same time respect 20-10 is still not easy in the nba.
40 players averaged 20 points a game last year and a few handful more averaged 18-19 with much better efficiency than Jules. That's not even taking into account guys who averaged 20 per 36 minutes. I'd say scoring 20 and 10 is far easier today than it was 5 or 10 years ago given the pace of today's game. It's like 300lb dude bragging that he has 20 inch arms when the majority of it is flab. I give little respect to someone who averages 20 points when they were one of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. Same kinda goes for RJ but he has the excuse of youth.
Ok, your saying 8.8% of NBA players with the effeciency were better than Randle scoring 20 pts. 450 players, 40 were better than him efficency in the 18 pt or better range. He was 25th in scoring. Ok, we all about efficiency. I get that.
whats also on knicks too. They won 37 games. They had issues beyond Jules and it effected his game.
Rebounding. 13th. Is there inefficient rebounds? Do getting offensive rebounds off own misses count? Perhaps. Defensive rebounds- 8.2, good for 10th in league.
Does all this aggregate to a good season? no. Im not saying that. Im just saying we toss around rj and Randle like they are easily replaced. And as much as I like Grimes and OBI, I have no concrete path to say they do better or the team does better. Am I willing to take that chance? Sure, but what comes back to make the team better in return? Im fine with less randle stats if it means more wins and he part of a team concept that wins. Who wouldn't.
Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/...
Great read. Usaually the athletic hits me up for a Dallah. THis time not.
Windhorst podcast this morning really nailed it that knicks are following a plan, had a solid summer, like the Barrett signing,, and think Leon is spot on with many things. Small moves. Discussed tradable contracts as the parameter.
Only one in queastion is Randle but at worst he can be moved laterally. If Hornets have the space, they need him!
I won’t predict how he’ll play. I don’t know if he ignored his coach by bringing up the ball? Was mad all year, or what ever. At thhe same time respect 20-10 is still not easy in the nba.
40 players averaged 20 points a game last year and a few handful more averaged 18-19 with much better efficiency than Jules. That's not even taking into account guys who averaged 20 per 36 minutes. I'd say scoring 20 and 10 is far easier today than it was 5 or 10 years ago given the pace of today's game. It's like 300lb dude bragging that he has 20 inch arms when the majority of it is flab. I give little respect to someone who averages 20 points when they were one of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. Same kinda goes for RJ but he has the excuse of youth.
Ok, your saying 8.8% of NBA players with the effeciency were better than Randle scoring 20 pts. 450 players, 40 were better than him efficency in the 18 pt or better range. He was 25th in scoring. Ok, we all about efficiency. I get that.
whats also on knicks too. They won 37 games. They had issues beyond Jules and it effected his game.
Rebounding. 13th. Is there inefficient rebounds? Do getting offensive rebounds off own misses count? Perhaps. Defensive rebounds- 8.2, good for 10th in league.
Does all this aggregate to a good season? no. Im not saying that. Im just saying we toss around rj and Randle like they are easily replaced. And as much as I like Grimes and OBI, I have no concrete path to say they do better or the team does better. Am I willing to take that chance? Sure, but what comes back to make the team better in return? Im fine with less randle stats if it means more wins and he part of a team concept that wins. Who wouldn't.
I think the point is how they play needs to change. If you gave Grimes 25 shots a game and a 28%+ usage, his stats may also be 22/6/5. Or he may be 32/5/5. The number of shots you take to get to 20 points matters. Its why Melo didn't win in his prime.
There are "inefficient rebounds". You look at the rebounds compare it to the number of box outs. Then look at the other members of his rotation. The guy getting rebounds without boxing out is getting handouts. Team rebounds are being credited to a player.
The fact that Randle has only two man lineups (IQ and Sims) with a positive Plus-Minus means the way he played the game last year was not very effective. It doesn't mean he can't change, it means he has to. By contrast, IQ and Sims didn't really have any negative net ratings. This means that the Knicks nearly always got outscored while Randle was on the floor.
If the point of the game is to outscore your opponent, Randle can't say he did that. He outscored his teammates, but not his opponents.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanc...
EwingsGlass wrote:Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/...
Great read. Usaually the athletic hits me up for a Dallah. THis time not.
Windhorst podcast this morning really nailed it that knicks are following a plan, had a solid summer, like the Barrett signing,, and think Leon is spot on with many things. Small moves. Discussed tradable contracts as the parameter.
Only one in queastion is Randle but at worst he can be moved laterally. If Hornets have the space, they need him!
I won’t predict how he’ll play. I don’t know if he ignored his coach by bringing up the ball? Was mad all year, or what ever. At thhe same time respect 20-10 is still not easy in the nba.
40 players averaged 20 points a game last year and a few handful more averaged 18-19 with much better efficiency than Jules. That's not even taking into account guys who averaged 20 per 36 minutes. I'd say scoring 20 and 10 is far easier today than it was 5 or 10 years ago given the pace of today's game. It's like 300lb dude bragging that he has 20 inch arms when the majority of it is flab. I give little respect to someone who averages 20 points when they were one of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. Same kinda goes for RJ but he has the excuse of youth.
Ok, your saying 8.8% of NBA players with the effeciency were better than Randle scoring 20 pts. 450 players, 40 were better than him efficency in the 18 pt or better range. He was 25th in scoring. Ok, we all about efficiency. I get that.
whats also on knicks too. They won 37 games. They had issues beyond Jules and it effected his game.
Rebounding. 13th. Is there inefficient rebounds? Do getting offensive rebounds off own misses count? Perhaps. Defensive rebounds- 8.2, good for 10th in league.
Does all this aggregate to a good season? no. Im not saying that. Im just saying we toss around rj and Randle like they are easily replaced. And as much as I like Grimes and OBI, I have no concrete path to say they do better or the team does better. Am I willing to take that chance? Sure, but what comes back to make the team better in return? Im fine with less randle stats if it means more wins and he part of a team concept that wins. Who wouldn't.
I think the point is how they play needs to change. If you gave Grimes 25 shots a game and a 28%+ usage, his stats may also be 22/6/5. Or he may be 32/5/5. The number of shots you take to get to 20 points matters. Its why Melo didn't win in his prime.
There are "inefficient rebounds". You look at the rebounds compare it to the number of box outs. Then look at the other members of his rotation. The guy getting rebounds without boxing out is getting handouts. Team rebounds are being credited to a player.
The fact that Randle has only two man lineups (IQ and Sims) with a positive Plus-Minus means the way he played the game last year was not very effective. It doesn't mean he can't change, it means he has to. By contrast, IQ and Sims didn't really have any negative net ratings. This means that the Knicks nearly always got outscored while Randle was on the floor.
If the point of the game is to outscore your opponent, Randle can't say he did that. He outscored his teammates, but not his opponents.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanc...
Im sure we can break it down to a positive or negative spins. Im not entirely discounting your points BTW. when you lose more than you win its gonna rarely come out pretty.
perhaps om more aligned with the potential of Randle in a good situation with real PG, valid Barrett now galvanized in a role and contract to prove it, and a world were he and Obi can play together so OBI can get more minutes. The aggregate is more wins. Thats all I care about.
If Randle can be a cap place holder and FO moves that asset along Im cool with that also. Instinct for me is not to sell low. How others value Randle is not as important as you or I (fans). Thus I trust Leon did not totally mess up because resigning him. But all the above has to play out.
We have a chess board with many pieces on it considering were were not a very good team last year. That itself is refreshing and optimistic!
Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Dont know if it was posted yet, very thorough article on RJ..https://theathletic.com/3548723/2022/08/...
Great read. Usaually the athletic hits me up for a Dallah. THis time not.
Windhorst podcast this morning really nailed it that knicks are following a plan, had a solid summer, like the Barrett signing,, and think Leon is spot on with many things. Small moves. Discussed tradable contracts as the parameter.
Only one in queastion is Randle but at worst he can be moved laterally. If Hornets have the space, they need him!
I won’t predict how he’ll play. I don’t know if he ignored his coach by bringing up the ball? Was mad all year, or what ever. At thhe same time respect 20-10 is still not easy in the nba.
40 players averaged 20 points a game last year and a few handful more averaged 18-19 with much better efficiency than Jules. That's not even taking into account guys who averaged 20 per 36 minutes. I'd say scoring 20 and 10 is far easier today than it was 5 or 10 years ago given the pace of today's game. It's like 300lb dude bragging that he has 20 inch arms when the majority of it is flab. I give little respect to someone who averages 20 points when they were one of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. Same kinda goes for RJ but he has the excuse of youth.
Ok, your saying 8.8% of NBA players with the effeciency were better than Randle scoring 20 pts. 450 players, 40 were better than him efficency in the 18 pt or better range. He was 25th in scoring. Ok, we all about efficiency. I get that.
whats also on knicks too. They won 37 games. They had issues beyond Jules and it effected his game.
Rebounding. 13th. Is there inefficient rebounds? Do getting offensive rebounds off own misses count? Perhaps. Defensive rebounds- 8.2, good for 10th in league.
Does all this aggregate to a good season? no. Im not saying that. Im just saying we toss around rj and Randle like they are easily replaced. And as much as I like Grimes and OBI, I have no concrete path to say they do better or the team does better. Am I willing to take that chance? Sure, but what comes back to make the team better in return? Im fine with less randle stats if it means more wins and he part of a team concept that wins. Who wouldn't.
I think the point is how they play needs to change. If you gave Grimes 25 shots a game and a 28%+ usage, his stats may also be 22/6/5. Or he may be 32/5/5. The number of shots you take to get to 20 points matters. Its why Melo didn't win in his prime.
There are "inefficient rebounds". You look at the rebounds compare it to the number of box outs. Then look at the other members of his rotation. The guy getting rebounds without boxing out is getting handouts. Team rebounds are being credited to a player.
The fact that Randle has only two man lineups (IQ and Sims) with a positive Plus-Minus means the way he played the game last year was not very effective. It doesn't mean he can't change, it means he has to. By contrast, IQ and Sims didn't really have any negative net ratings. This means that the Knicks nearly always got outscored while Randle was on the floor.
If the point of the game is to outscore your opponent, Randle can't say he did that. He outscored his teammates, but not his opponents.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanc...
Im sure we can break it down to a positive or negative spins. Im not entirely discounting your points BTW. when you lose more than you win its gonna rarely come out pretty.
perhaps om more aligned with the potential of Randle in a good situation with real PG, valid Barrett now galvanized in a role and contract to prove it, and a world were he and Obi can play together so OBI can get more minutes. The aggregate is more wins. Thats all I care about.
If Randle can be a cap place holder and FO moves that asset along Im cool with that also. Instinct for me is not to sell low. How others value Randle is not as important as you or I (fans). Thus I trust Leon did not totally mess up because resigning him. But all the above has to play out.
We have a chess board with many pieces on it considering were were not a very good team last year. That itself is refreshing and optimistic!
That’s right. I think if Randle accepts not being “the man” and instead being more of a team player, the efficiency will come. My only real issue with him is the idea that an 18 foot fadeaway in double coverage is a good shot. It may have worked for him in 2019-2020, but it was never a good shot.
Once he accepts that role, I think the attitude changes and the wins come. If he were on anyone else’s team, he’s the kind of guy I’d be trying to buy low. Seriously. But that logic is based on the concept of change of scenery. Here, something has to change and maybe Brunson is that catalyst. Maybe it’s training camp without Kenny Payne. Maybe it’s a film session with a math professor. A new motto Maximize Points Per Possession. MPPP. As Bill Walton wisely said, the team that scores more points usually wins. 
As D’antoni said, the team that scores the most points had the better defense.
But I think he can sort it out.
I really don’t like this. Dude has shown nothing that he’s worth the type of money.
TPercy wrote:I really don’t like this. Dude has shown nothing that he’s worth the type of money.
He showed more than Jaylen Brown at this point in his career. He has to get more efficient, but everything about his demeanor says he will. Plus the Knicks might have an actual pg on the floor with him going forward so the difficulty of getting shots should also go down.
TPercy wrote:I really don’t like this. Dude has shown nothing that he’s worth the type of money.
Shown nothing? He was the second best player on a Knicks team that got a 4th seed year before last and was a big reason we won 37 games last year when our talent level was probably closer to a 25 win team
RJ has been good so far. Definitely better than Zion who can’t even get on the court. If he wasn’t good Ainge wouldn’t have been demanding him in trade talks.
TPercy wrote:I really don’t like this. Dude has shown nothing that he’s worth the type of money.
We have shown that he has projected better than brown and Derozen after three years.
That he is for real 22 and is in very elite company for what he has done in his first three years BEFORE his 22nd birthday.
He is far from a max deal.
But we can argue or just enjoy the upcoming season (we hope).
Philc1 wrote:TPercy wrote:I really don’t like this. Dude has shown nothing that he’s worth the type of money.
Shown nothing? He was the second best player on a Knicks team that got a 4th seed year before last and was a big reason we won 37 games last year when our talent level was probably closer to a 25 win team
RJ has been good so far. Definitely better than Zion who can’t even get on the court. If he wasn’t good Ainge wouldn’t have been demanding him in trade talks.
When RJ Barrett learns to screen, pick, pass, and bring out the best part of his teammate performance in a lineup, then u could mention being the best at something.
There are to many loop-holes in RJ Barrett's 3 season performance. And loop-holes in Randle's 3 season performance also, but both has been given an extension from sport scout Leon Rose.
Truth b said .. After the Knicks playoff stint vs Atlanta Hawks .. I believe a real winning NBA coach & GM would have traded one of the two players Randle or Barrett that offseason. Why? Because both performed terrible as the one and two option on offense in each of the games, plus as a tandem in the lineup both players never showed any chemistry together on either side of the court throughout the 5 game playoff series.
Keeping the two players for the 2021-22 season, and losing a 20 point lead for a loss twice in the season says alot bout the tandem of Barrett & Randle.
And awarding RJ Barrett with an extension after blowing the Donovan Mitchell trade (reminds me of Randle extension after only getting Fournier in a FA market of star players). Plus when u add not knowing how important Bullocks consistent 2-Way hustle performance were a main part of the Knicks success playing above .550 B.ball in the 2020-21 season. I just hope coach Thibs and Leon Rose paid more attention to Bullocks talents, than Brunson in the Western Conference FINALS in June. Because in the previous season SF RJ Barrett did not come close or full-fill half of the performance SF Bullocks gave the season before.
