Knicks · DM to Cavs (page 7)

gradyandrew @ 9/2/2022 9:24 PM

Future Draft Pick Value Winners and Losers
Jazz
16
Thunder
12
Spurs
8
Rockets
7
Pelicans
6
Knicks
4

From the ringer. Unprotected picks are valued as twice as valuable as protected ones. In my opinion, that overstated their value.
Knicks and Pelicans are the only two teams competing for the playoffs that have extra picks to play with. Pelicans picks are unprotected from the Bucks, it's hard for me to see those as much more valuable than the Knicks protected ones. It's definitely possible that more or less the same package that the Knicks offered the Jazz could bring back two stars at the deadline or on draft night.
NYStateOfMind @ 9/2/2022 9:36 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:Funny reading all the mad posts about Ainge trying to fleece the Knicks.....like he was supposed to do us a favor or something, lol.
The man's main asking price was UNPROTECTED picks...Knicks couldn't do that but Cleveland did. boom.

IMO, the players involved is irrelevant because its subjective (RJ, Obi, Robinson = Lauri Markkanen, Ochair Agbaji, Collin Sexton).

Personally....The Knicks should have pulled the trigger on this. The organization stock piles picks in order to be able to make a move this and when the opportunity finally presents itself, they balk.

Funny that you think the talent was the same, clearly not, just RJ alone. And if you read, that Knick offer had 3 unprotected picks. So why didn't it happen?

gradyandrew @ 9/2/2022 9:51 PM
NYStateOfMind wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:Funny reading all the mad posts about Ainge trying to fleece the Knicks.....like he was supposed to do us a favor or something, lol.
The man's main asking price was UNPROTECTED picks...Knicks couldn't do that but Cleveland did. boom.

IMO, the players involved is irrelevant because its subjective (RJ, Obi, Robinson = Lauri Markkanen, Ochair Agbaji, Collin Sexton).

Personally....The Knicks should have pulled the trigger on this. The organization stock piles picks in order to be able to make a move this and when the opportunity finally presents itself, they balk.

Funny that you think the talent was the same, clearly not, just RJ alone. And if you read, that Knick offer had 3 unprotected picks. So why didn't it happen?

I think the prospect of paying Lauri and Collin a combined 36 million was preferable to paying RJ 30.

smackeddog @ 9/3/2022 4:22 AM


ramtour420 @ 9/3/2022 5:53 AM
smackeddog wrote:


Slick, clever, shrewd...

TheGame @ 9/3/2022 6:11 AM
smackeddog wrote:


The Knicks were using the trade threat to play RJ and Mitch while Angie was using the Knicks to fleece another team trying to beat the Knicks’ offer. These guys are playing high level chess, not checkers. We have the right people running the FO.

Clean @ 9/3/2022 6:28 AM
TheGame wrote:
smackeddog wrote:


The Knicks were using the trade threat to play RJ and Mitch while Angie was using the Knicks to fleece another team trying to beat the Knicks’ offer. These guys are playing high level chess, not checkers. We have the right people running the FO.

This is what it is looking like. I love RJ but he was no where near a max level player. I am OK with his new contract.

ramtour420 @ 9/3/2022 6:42 AM
Clean wrote:
TheGame wrote:
smackeddog wrote:


The Knicks were using the trade threat to play RJ and Mitch while Angie was using the Knicks to fleece another team trying to beat the Knicks’ offer. These guys are playing high level chess, not checkers. We have the right people running the FO.

This is what it is looking like. I love RJ but he was no where near a max level player. I am OK with his new contract.

I have been saying it for like a year now that MRob at 15mil is good but anything over that and we would be overpaying. Someone definitely reads these boards here

MaTT4281 @ 9/3/2022 7:38 AM
smackeddog wrote:


Not getting the Mitchell Robinson piece here. Dude was an unrestricted FA. Knicks had no leverage to threaten him with a trade other than saying we'll walk away completely.

Happy with both contracts, and RELIEVED we didn't pull the trigger on the Donovan trade...but something about this comes off as Knicks just trying to save face.

martin @ 9/4/2022 11:48 PM
You know what you barely hear discussed or read about compared to what goes on with the Knicks? How poor Cleveland’s spacing is going to be.

Garland and Donovan will have zero spacing with Jarrett, Mobley and ? At SF.

Where they gonna get lanes to the rim?

Nalod @ 9/5/2022 8:47 AM
martin wrote:You know what you barely hear discussed or read about compared to what goes on with the Knicks? How poor Cleveland’s spacing is going to be.

Garland and Donovan will have zero spacing with Jarrett, Mobley and ? At SF.

Where they gonna get lanes to the rim?

The "Spacing is always greener on the other side".........

Nalod @ 9/5/2022 9:21 AM
Discounting RJ.

There is a reality there. Did we in fact use DM trade in part to pressure RJ and his agent to accept the reasonable offer using the threat of Utah as leverage? Maybe.
Lets be real, if he wanted the max, and who doesn't, then he could have said "I will wait and be unrestricted and test the market".
Knicks said no, we like you, want you, but we got a trade on the table and you can go to Utah or get moved to another team and see if they can max your value this season".
Im ok with that. RJ is not a bonafide legit value yet.

"For a price". I do this all the time. My house, my cars, etc. Apparent value is important and I have no issue paying full retail for things but there are times to know what you want and be able to jump on it. To do that you need liquidity and knowledge to identify a good deal.

Knicks have not hit a home run yet int eh Leon era but have not made fatal ones either, Randle was brilliant after two seasons and now we have judge and jury out for this upcoming one. Admittedly it could go either way. Just has to play to his contract. His contract is not awful if can just roll some things back. EF, not a bad contract or is Mitch. WE are not overpaying guys. Kemba was a stab.
37wins tells me things are not great. I get it. Im looking ahead and don't see despair.

But if we used Utah as a leverage to sign RJ it speaks that he wants to be here too. RJ made a choice. Lets be real, this kid keeps on doing his thing and is brave to stand up to media crush, and succeed? Its a good thing for all!!!
KP wanted out. He has his reasons. Might have been money. He had a torn ACL and wanted max. Its prudent to not do that.
For all of Mills shit, that was not a bad call.

martin @ 9/5/2022 11:57 AM
Nalod wrote:Discounting RJ.

There is a reality there. Did we in fact use DM trade in part to pressure RJ and his agent to accept the reasonable offer using the threat of Utah as leverage? Maybe.
Lets be real, if he wanted the max, and who doesn't, then he could have said "I will wait and be unrestricted and test the market".
Knicks said no, we like you, want you, but we got a trade on the table and you can go to Utah or get moved to another team and see if they can max your value this season".
Im ok with that. RJ is not a bonafide legit value yet.

"For a price". I do this all the time. My house, my cars, etc. Apparent value is important and I have no issue paying full retail for things but there are times to know what you want and be able to jump on it. To do that you need liquidity and knowledge to identify a good deal.

Knicks have not hit a home run yet int eh Leon era but have not made fatal ones either, Randle was brilliant after two seasons and now we have judge and jury out for this upcoming one. Admittedly it could go either way. Just has to play to his contract. His contract is not awful if can just roll some things back. EF, not a bad contract or is Mitch. WE are not overpaying guys. Kemba was a stab.
37wins tells me things are not great. I get it. Im looking ahead and don't see despair.

But if we used Utah as a leverage to sign RJ it speaks that he wants to be here too. RJ made a choice. Lets be real, this kid keeps on doing his thing and is brave to stand up to media crush, and succeed? Its a good thing for all!!!
KP wanted out. He has his reasons. Might have been money. He had a torn ACL and wanted max. Its prudent to not do that.
For all of Mills shit, that was not a bad call.

I think this 100% happened. And if RJ doesn’t sign extension, Mitchell is a Knicks player.

Knixkik @ 9/5/2022 12:28 PM
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Discounting RJ.

There is a reality there. Did we in fact use DM trade in part to pressure RJ and his agent to accept the reasonable offer using the threat of Utah as leverage? Maybe.
Lets be real, if he wanted the max, and who doesn't, then he could have said "I will wait and be unrestricted and test the market".
Knicks said no, we like you, want you, but we got a trade on the table and you can go to Utah or get moved to another team and see if they can max your value this season".
Im ok with that. RJ is not a bonafide legit value yet.

"For a price". I do this all the time. My house, my cars, etc. Apparent value is important and I have no issue paying full retail for things but there are times to know what you want and be able to jump on it. To do that you need liquidity and knowledge to identify a good deal.

Knicks have not hit a home run yet int eh Leon era but have not made fatal ones either, Randle was brilliant after two seasons and now we have judge and jury out for this upcoming one. Admittedly it could go either way. Just has to play to his contract. His contract is not awful if can just roll some things back. EF, not a bad contract or is Mitch. WE are not overpaying guys. Kemba was a stab.
37wins tells me things are not great. I get it. Im looking ahead and don't see despair.

But if we used Utah as a leverage to sign RJ it speaks that he wants to be here too. RJ made a choice. Lets be real, this kid keeps on doing his thing and is brave to stand up to media crush, and succeed? Its a good thing for all!!!
KP wanted out. He has his reasons. Might have been money. He had a torn ACL and wanted max. Its prudent to not do that.
For all of Mills shit, that was not a bad call.

I think this 100% happened. And if RJ doesn’t sign extension, Mitchell is a Knicks player.

It’s a great theory that makes a lot of sense. So hopefully the Knicks played this right. But RJ was never expected to be moved in a Mitchell deal so that was a miss. Still I’m glad RJ is here, hopefully it’s for the long term.

Nalod @ 9/5/2022 1:06 PM
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Discounting RJ.

There is a reality there. Did we in fact use DM trade in part to pressure RJ and his agent to accept the reasonable offer using the threat of Utah as leverage? Maybe.
Lets be real, if he wanted the max, and who doesn't, then he could have said "I will wait and be unrestricted and test the market".
Knicks said no, we like you, want you, but we got a trade on the table and you can go to Utah or get moved to another team and see if they can max your value this season".
Im ok with that. RJ is not a bonafide legit value yet.

"For a price". I do this all the time. My house, my cars, etc. Apparent value is important and I have no issue paying full retail for things but there are times to know what you want and be able to jump on it. To do that you need liquidity and knowledge to identify a good deal.

Knicks have not hit a home run yet int eh Leon era but have not made fatal ones either, Randle was brilliant after two seasons and now we have judge and jury out for this upcoming one. Admittedly it could go either way. Just has to play to his contract. His contract is not awful if can just roll some things back. EF, not a bad contract or is Mitch. WE are not overpaying guys. Kemba was a stab.
37wins tells me things are not great. I get it. Im looking ahead and don't see despair.

But if we used Utah as a leverage to sign RJ it speaks that he wants to be here too. RJ made a choice. Lets be real, this kid keeps on doing his thing and is brave to stand up to media crush, and succeed? Its a good thing for all!!!
KP wanted out. He has his reasons. Might have been money. He had a torn ACL and wanted max. Its prudent to not do that.
For all of Mills shit, that was not a bad call.

I think this 100% happened. And if RJ doesn’t sign extension, Mitchell is a Knicks player.

shrewd. But in a cool way. Player chooses where he wants to be and why. He is not a max guy but gets the opportunity to be one. No telling what Utah had in store for him. Play it out then see at seasons end he is restricted but a team in need can step up, or Danny retrades him.
Get an ACL and restricted in Colin Sexton territory with less money and uncertainty. Knicks wanted him, but if there is to be a winning scenario one day it has to be at a fair price. Knicks gave him that and he got a good sized "bag".
22 year old foundational piece. Him and Brunson. Randle still? Next up Obi/Grimes. WE still need a cornerstone.
It plays out as it does.

martin @ 9/5/2022 1:33 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Discounting RJ.

There is a reality there. Did we in fact use DM trade in part to pressure RJ and his agent to accept the reasonable offer using the threat of Utah as leverage? Maybe.
Lets be real, if he wanted the max, and who doesn't, then he could have said "I will wait and be unrestricted and test the market".
Knicks said no, we like you, want you, but we got a trade on the table and you can go to Utah or get moved to another team and see if they can max your value this season".
Im ok with that. RJ is not a bonafide legit value yet.

"For a price". I do this all the time. My house, my cars, etc. Apparent value is important and I have no issue paying full retail for things but there are times to know what you want and be able to jump on it. To do that you need liquidity and knowledge to identify a good deal.

Knicks have not hit a home run yet int eh Leon era but have not made fatal ones either, Randle was brilliant after two seasons and now we have judge and jury out for this upcoming one. Admittedly it could go either way. Just has to play to his contract. His contract is not awful if can just roll some things back. EF, not a bad contract or is Mitch. WE are not overpaying guys. Kemba was a stab.
37wins tells me things are not great. I get it. Im looking ahead and don't see despair.

But if we used Utah as a leverage to sign RJ it speaks that he wants to be here too. RJ made a choice. Lets be real, this kid keeps on doing his thing and is brave to stand up to media crush, and succeed? Its a good thing for all!!!
KP wanted out. He has his reasons. Might have been money. He had a torn ACL and wanted max. Its prudent to not do that.
For all of Mills shit, that was not a bad call.

I think this 100% happened. And if RJ doesn’t sign extension, Mitchell is a Knicks player.

It’s a great theory that makes a lot of sense. So hopefully the Knicks played this right. But RJ was never expected to be moved in a Mitchell deal so that was a miss. Still I’m glad RJ is here, hopefully it’s for the long term.

I’ve never believed that presumption. RJ is the face of the franchise, meaning you can’t put him on the trade block until the right time. And the right time is at the very end when all the other details are worked out; that’s just negotiating 101.

Knixkik @ 9/5/2022 2:03 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Discounting RJ.

There is a reality there. Did we in fact use DM trade in part to pressure RJ and his agent to accept the reasonable offer using the threat of Utah as leverage? Maybe.
Lets be real, if he wanted the max, and who doesn't, then he could have said "I will wait and be unrestricted and test the market".
Knicks said no, we like you, want you, but we got a trade on the table and you can go to Utah or get moved to another team and see if they can max your value this season".
Im ok with that. RJ is not a bonafide legit value yet.

"For a price". I do this all the time. My house, my cars, etc. Apparent value is important and I have no issue paying full retail for things but there are times to know what you want and be able to jump on it. To do that you need liquidity and knowledge to identify a good deal.

Knicks have not hit a home run yet int eh Leon era but have not made fatal ones either, Randle was brilliant after two seasons and now we have judge and jury out for this upcoming one. Admittedly it could go either way. Just has to play to his contract. His contract is not awful if can just roll some things back. EF, not a bad contract or is Mitch. WE are not overpaying guys. Kemba was a stab.
37wins tells me things are not great. I get it. Im looking ahead and don't see despair.

But if we used Utah as a leverage to sign RJ it speaks that he wants to be here too. RJ made a choice. Lets be real, this kid keeps on doing his thing and is brave to stand up to media crush, and succeed? Its a good thing for all!!!
KP wanted out. He has his reasons. Might have been money. He had a torn ACL and wanted max. Its prudent to not do that.
For all of Mills shit, that was not a bad call.

I think this 100% happened. And if RJ doesn’t sign extension, Mitchell is a Knicks player.

It’s a great theory that makes a lot of sense. So hopefully the Knicks played this right. But RJ was never expected to be moved in a Mitchell deal so that was a miss. Still I’m glad RJ is here, hopefully it’s for the long term.

I’ve never believed that presumption. RJ is the face of the franchise, meaning you can’t put him on the trade block until the right time. And the right time is at the very end when all the other details are worked out; that’s just negotiating 101.

I didn’t phrase this correctly. I meant it was a miss not getting Mitchell because we should have had him without Barrett being in a deal. Barrett was always assumed to stay in NY. Barrett was never included in any rumors until the weekend prior to the trade. To me the Knicks still missed on this opportunity, but I’m glad they didn’t trade Barrett and they should continue to treat him as the face of the franchise. I think Barrett and Brunson are the 2 core guys right now. The front office seems to feel the same way about Grimes, but obviously he has a lot to prove.

Swishfm3 @ 9/5/2022 6:25 PM
NYStateOfMind wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:Funny reading all the mad posts about Ainge trying to fleece the Knicks.....like he was supposed to do us a favor or something, lol.
The man's main asking price was UNPROTECTED picks...Knicks couldn't do that but Cleveland did. boom.

IMO, the players involved is irrelevant because its subjective (RJ, Obi, Robinson = Lauri Markkanen, Ochair Agbaji, Collin Sexton).

Personally....The Knicks should have pulled the trigger on this. The organization stock piles picks in order to be able to make a move this and when the opportunity finally presents itself, they balk.

Funny that you think the talent was the same, clearly not, just RJ alone. And if you read, that Knick offer had 3 unprotected picks. So why didn't it happen?

like I said, Subjective...and I hate comparing players who play two different position, but Sexton is a slightly better player, imo.

And if you read, you would have read that one of the picks the Knicks offered was top 5 protected.

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